350 GM Crate Motor questions for a 66 C10

[geezer#99]

I said might need!
Depends which carb.
Which pump?
How much pressure?

[msg]

The carb I have is a quadrajet and the pump is the
Holley Mighty Mite Electric Fuel Pump 12-427 at 7psi.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-427

[geezer#99]

Quadrajet might handle 7 psi. I’ve seen some that did and some that didn’t.
I always plan for 5 psi. Never a problem like that.

Easy to run a return line now while you have lots of room to install it. Just cap it off on the ends. Hook it up later if needed.

[msg]

Thanks Geezer, Ill look for return line references since Ive never dealt with any of this before.

[AcampoDave]

Originally Posted by msg

On the fuel lines I was planning to get a brake line flaring kit and bend things myself. I was looking to buy the right fuel line size and type to bend and any extra fittings I may need. Is this the right stuff and size to use?

https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Copper...ef_=ast_bbp_dp


and as I read back through the thread here I recalled this...



I did get the holley fuel pump that was recommended, you think its best then to do a return line and get a regulator? If so which regulator would do the trick?

https://www.eastwood.com/professiona...yABEgJ1e_D_BwE
Just making sure you realize that you will need to make a double flare fitting for a sturdy connection. The link will have a pic showing it in more detail in the tool's description . BTW, most of the car and truck mags give this Eastwood tool "two thumbs up" in their articles on DIY brakelines and such.

[msg]

Thanks Dave on the double flare info. Theres a good bit more stuff Ill need like a coil straightener tool as well. Things are racking up.

I was looking over the engine parts I still do not have and the gaskets are what Im ordering now.

For the fuel pump I guess I need a block off plate, is this the right fit for that engine?

https://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Perfo...7VXCHKEWD9RMPA

I think these are correct

The exhaust
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1404

Intake
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1255

Water pump
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-5152/overview/

[Captainfab]

You should not need a fuel pump block off plate. The block is not machined for a mechanical fuel pump, so there won't be any oil leaking from that area.

[msg]

Im getting close to mounting up the L31 to the 700r4 and I was looking to replace the bolts that mount the motor to the bracket and also the bolts that mount the bracket to the frame. I assumed it was best to replace the old bolts so I checked with Summit and they sent me 3 links saying I would need all three sets. One of the links has the motor mount bracket with the bolts. Would the old bracket for the 350 I had not fit the L31? The mount pads were replaced about year before I tore everything down so they are in decent shape.

Here are the bolts they said I would need

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-130-3106

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-6372mp-sm

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-130-3105

[garyd1961]

Nothing wrong with using new bolts but if your old bolts look ok you can re-use them. Why would you need new engine stand/brackets?
The L31 should bolt just the same as your old 350.

[Ironangel]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Here’s a smoking deal.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/059/0282/10002/-1

I was just going to say that this is a smokin deal! That's the L31 that CaptainFab was suggesting...I just dropped in a GM Performance crate motor I bought 5 years ago for $1200 from JEGS. Looking through the specs of the motors posted it don't look like it's offered anymore. I have no complaints on mine, it was the 260 HP 4-bolt. I'd jump on that L31 if I were you because at $1500 they wont last and those sales go away fast! Good eye Geezer!

[Captainfab]

There is no reason to not use your original engine mounts and the frame brackets. The L31 is still a Gen I small block. It is physically exactly the same as the old engine you had. You also do not have to buy ARP bolts. You can also simply go to your local hardware store and buy the correct size of grade 8 bolts, washers and nuts if needed.

[Ironangel]

You don't need those motor stands and bolts. Why not use what you have? Get a new set of these with 6-1"-3/8"-16 grade-5 bolts, and 2,1-1/4"-7/16-14 grade -5 bolts...Use your factory stands. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...make/chevrolet I'd forgo the regulator because that fuel filter should locate between the pump and the carb, and I'd either get another one just like it or one that's a little larger to locate on the frame between the tank and the pump. That will keep your pump alive and wont have to change out the small one so often. With those inline filters and only 7 psi your Quadrajet should be fine, it has it's own filter as well.

[msg]

Thanks guys, I had pulled the motor about 5 years ago and prior to that the mounts were replaced a year before that. Ill attach a pic of those, with a light clean they look like the summit ones in the 360 view. The brackets I had sandblasted and epoxy primered a while ago and pulled them out of storage. I will reuse them since they should work. The bolts and washers I stored after pulling Ill attach pics of as well. The bolts Summit sent me links to are way longer. Thats where I was mostly concerned. Looks like there were some spacers used on the mount to engine bolts. One was bigger than the other.

[Ironangel]

Originally Posted by msg

Thanks guys, I had pulled the motor about 5 years ago and prior to that the mounts were replaced a year before that. Ill attach a pic of those, with a light clean they look like the summit ones in the 360 view. The brackets I had sandblasted and epoxy primered a while ago and pulled them out of storage. I will reuse them since they should work. The bolts and washers I stored after pulling Ill attach pics of as well. The bolts Summit sent me links to are way longer. Thats where I was mostly concerned. Looks like there were some spacers used on the mount to engine bolts. One was bigger than the other.

The links Summit sent you are the high dollar aftermarket versions of what you already have, no need to waste money there when fuel lines, pumps, and fittings need to be had. I'm in the middle of installing a fuel cell with electric pump, regulator, filter, and lines myself. I built a 12.5 compression 427BBC motor that requires 110 octane race gas, and a starter that can turn a motor with CR. One thing leads to another so careful thought has to go into a new motor installation...The motor mounts you have bolt directly to the block with 1" long 3/8 bolts. The 1-1/4" long 7/16 bolts get a lock and a flat washer because your stands have been slotted. Motor mounts sit directly on the stands and shouldn't require any spacers. I'm glad you were able to score that L31 motor, I think your going to be impressed! That was a steal!

[msg]

Originally Posted by Ironangel

The motor mounts you have bolt directly to the block with 1" long 3/8 bolts. The 1-1/4" long 7/16 bolts get a lock and a flat washer because your stands have been slotted. Motor mounts sit directly on the stands and shouldn't require any spacers.

Thanks for the info, Ill head to the hardware store and get what I need. I plan to get it installed this weekend. Ill need to find the torque specs and all, between my assembly manual for a 66 and the two shop manuals I have I so far havent found what I need yet. I guess its because this is a 350 and its not original to the truck. Even things like the motor mounts are spooking me a bit. Seems that the original engines had rear mounts as well.

The specs I was looking for are for

flexplate to torque converter
flexplate to crankshaft
Bell housing to motor
engine mount to motor
engine mount to brace
brace to frame

From the 62 shop manual it says 60 to 70 ft lbs on the mount to motor bolt for the 409 and 358 engines. Doesnt say the torque spec for the other bolts on that mount to motor.
Thats all I can find so far, anybody have a reference for what I listed above?

[msg]

Might be nothing but I am seeing L46 on stickers that are on the engine and I dont know if I should be concerned since what I ordered in the part description says "Replacement L31 engine with an engine code R. This engine has no mechanical fuel pump provision."

The part number 12681432 is what I ordered here which says "not available" nowdays.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12681432


I contacted Summit and asked and they said that Chevrolet Performance will have to answer why the L46 vs L31. So tomorrow Ill hear what they can tell me. Maybe its no big deal and its still the vortec head L31 and the stickers say L46 for some other reason. Im bummed cause I nearly have it installed today when I saw this as I was raising it out of the crate to mount up.

[msg]

Here is what it says on my invoice

[Ironangel]

Sorry for the late response, don't get bummed out because an L46 is the Corvette RPO number for the same L31 350 ci Vortec V8... https://www.google.com/search?q=gm+l...+specs&ie=&oe= Somebody else on the board here just installed that same motor and was pretty happy with it, might be able to find it in the search box above? A carbed Vortec will require an intake manifold designed for a carb, a spreadbore design in your case since your using the greatest carb ever made, a Quadrajet. Do your research, when you get that thing running your going to smile and realize you bought the right motor... A 1/4-20 bolt gets 10 ft lbs, double that for 5/16-18 bolts, 20 ft. lbs. Double that for 3/8-16 bolts, 40 ft. lbs. 7/16-14 bolts get 60 ft. lbs and 1/2-13 gets 90 ft lbs. Those are grade-5 specs. Unless your using a specified nut you don't need grade-8 bolts. A grade-8 bolt used in a shallow threaded cast iron hole such as a motor mount hole can lead to BIG trouble!

[Captainfab]

The L30 and L31 Vortec small blocks were not TBI. They were CPI/CSFI.

Originally Posted by Ironangel

Sorry for the late response, don't get bummed out because an L46 is the Corvette RPO number for the same L31 350 ci Vortec V8... https://www.google.com/search?q=gm+l...+specs&ie=&oe= Somebody else on the board here just installed that same motor and was pretty happy with it, might be able to find it in the search box above? The Vortec is considered a gen 1 design but has unique differences, they are/were throttle body fuel injected motors from the factory, "TBI" instead of carburetor's. They have/use tank mounted fuel pumps that require fuel pressure regulators for carburetor use. A carbed Vortec will require an intake manifold designed for a carb, a spreadbore design in your case since your using the greatest carb ever made, a Quadrajet. Do your research, when you get that thing running your going to smile and realize you bought the right motor... A 1/4-20 bolt gets 10 ft lbs, double that for 5/16-18 bolts, 20 ft. lbs. Double that for 3/8-16 bolts, 40 ft. lbs. 7/16-14 bolts get 60 ft. lbs and 1/2-13 gets 90 ft lbs. Those are grade-5 specs. Unless your using a specified nut you don't need grade-8 bolts. A grade-8 bolt used in a shallow threaded cast iron hole such as a motor mount hole can lead to BIG trouble!

[msg]

Originally Posted by Ironangel

Sorry for the late response, don't get bummed out because an L46 is the Corvette RPO number for the same L31 350 ci Vortec V8... https://www.google.com/search?q=gm+l...+specs&ie=&oe=

Thanks for the response Ironangel, the RPO code your saying doesnt represent an L46 engine like I was assuming? It just happens to be a code they are using for the L31? Sorry for the dumb question, this stuffs confusing to me.

Originally Posted by Ironangel

A carbed Vortec will require an intake manifold designed for a carb, a spreadbore design in your case since your using the greatest carb ever made, a Quadrajet. Do your research, when you get that thing running your going to smile and realize you bought the right motor...

Im a long way off from getting this thing going but so looking forward to the day. I do have the Edelbrock intake for that spreadbore just waiting to be installed next!

Originally Posted by Ironangel

A 1/4-20 bolt gets 10 ft lbs, double that for 5/16-18 bolts, 20 ft. lbs. Double that for 3/8-16 bolts, 40 ft. lbs. 7/16-14 bolts get 60 ft. lbs and 1/2-13 gets 90 ft lbs. Those are grade-5 specs. Unless your using a specified nut you don't need grade-8 bolts. A grade-8 bolt used in a shallow threaded cast iron hole such as a motor mount hole can lead to BIG trouble!

I never knew that doubling rule, thanks. I assumed Grade 8 was the better choice for its strength than grade 5 so that is what I bought. I did buy the 1 inch 3/8-16 and noticed how they were bottoming out with 40lb ft lb torgue leaving the motor mount to have a gap. So I backed out the first one I did and then added a lock washer to make up the difference and did that on the other 5 that I installed. Did I screw up? Wouldnt a grade 5 1inch bolt have the same issue?

[Ironangel]

A grade 5 bolt will twist off (break) before it strips the threads or cracks the block. You should always use lock washers and on them thin mounting surfaces of the motor mounts it wouldn't hurt to use a flat washer as well.

[msg]

Originally Posted by Ironangel

A grade 5 bolt will twist off (break) before it strips the threads or cracks the block. You should always use lock washers and on them thin mounting surfaces of the motor mounts it wouldn't hurt to use a flat washer as well.

Thanks I could add the washers but now that the engine is installed it will be tight access. I wasnt seeing the lock washer in the shop manual diagrams for the 3 bolts that mount the pad to the engine so I tried it without for a start. There was a rear mount though that had some tabs that were meant to bend over the bolt head.

[msg]

Im sure theres a better/right way to have done the install but its in now. First I looked back at the pictures I took 5 years ago when I pulled the engine and transmission. I had the adjuster leveling bar with the handle pointed to the rear and the bolt on the arm at the 2 ton mark. I figured moving it to the 1 1/2 spot would make it easier so I decided to move it out a notch this time.

[msg]

As I got to raising it high enough to clear the front end I saw the handle was not going to work at that end. So I had to lower it back to the crate and reassemble the lever bar

[msg]

As I moved in and was lowering it in the lift wouldnt go any further forward, so I backed it out and lowered it to the crate and extended to the 1 ton mark.