Got to love GM’s paper thin sheet metal

[DirtyLarry]

Man, I tell ya. I am not so sure these late model GM trucks make for very good work trucks. You know I bought this 2005 2500HD 4x4 dirt cheap this past spring as an ex-work truck that ran around the four corners area (CO, AZ, UT, NM), mostly off-road, with a weed sprayer tank on the back. This company sprayed weeds near all of the natural gas wells.

I absolutely cannot believe how these GM trucks do not hold up when used for work duty. When I first got it the RH engine mount was totally busted and the engine mount bolts were broke off in the frame while one of the two the LH engine mount was broke off. This allowed the engine to fall down and break the exhaust Y-pipe. The battery tray had also cracked all to pieces as well as the ECM mounting brackets. While I was in there I also found numerous sheet metal cracks on the front fenders under the hood where the fenders bolt to the radiator support. I thought I had it all fixed up and still happy with my cheap purchased. Then the front axle seal started leaking, which is common on GM IFS, so in fixing that I found 2 of the 4 front skid plate bolts were broke off too. On top of that the lower bearing assembly in the steering column kept falling out so I had to use a 2” hose clamp to hold it in.

Then last weekend I noticed this annoying pop noise in the RH corner of the cab had gotten worse and sounded like the truck was coming apart. Indeed, it was. The rear RH cab corner mount totally ripped out so a buddy and I ended up welding on a patch panel. I am curious if anybody has seen this on standard cab trucks yet.

If these GMT800 trucks fall apart this easy I hate to see a GMT900 used as a truck being the GMT900’s have a few MIL’s thinner sheet metal. Junk I tell ya. My 2001 2500HD has been great but it is garage queen that never hauls anything more than a sack of groceries, which might be just about the perfect load for a Silverado.

I had plans to purchase a Four Wheel Camper for this white truck but man, I don't know if I trust it to travel around the Southwestern Desert the way it seems to like to fall apart. That new Dodge Power Wagon is looking more and more appealing all the time.



Right rear cab corner mount

[JohnC]

Man that is crazy with all the issues you found on your truck. I know on my 03 Sierra 1500HD crew cab I have an annoying pop coming from the from the front area. I've looked at everything and I can't find it. Guess I need to check the body mounts. I looked at the engine mounts, and didn't notice anything wrong with them.

I guess it's kind of like your sig. They just don't build them like they used to.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by JohnC

Man that is crazy with all the issues you found on your truck. I know on my 03 Sierra 1500HD crew cab I have an annoying pop coming from the from the front area. I've looked at everything and I can't find it. Guess I need to check the body mounts. I looked at the engine mounts, and didn't notice anything wrong with them.

I guess it's kind of like your sig. They just don't build them like they used to.

Have you tryed replacing the steering shaft.... 99&up trucks are bad about the shaft having play in it and causing a noise. replaced a alot of them.

[Gray Ghost]

Any pop you hear could be a ball joint...had one on the Elky SS for a year or so. Only manifested coming out of my driveway. One day at the tire store putting on new tires....backed out and bang, wheel was suddenly cocked way too far, the front end sank and I was stuck. Thank God I wasn't going 70 when it popped for the last time. Get them checked!!!

Wow, you've had issues Larry....trucks should last twice as long in AZ!

PS....Dodges suck big time....don't do it!!!!

[DirtyLarry]

I would think so to but again, it was worked pretty hard bouncing around the desert but I would still expect it to hold up better than it did. The truck was still a smoking deal.

Here is the thread from when I started on this basket case.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=334411

[JohnC]

I've thought about the steering shaft, but it feels like it's under the cab, not from the steering shaft. Also I've had the ball joints checked out, and they are all fine. I'll just keep searching. What's weird it only does it when I'm going over something that somewhat flexes the truck. Like an entrance to a parking lot that I take at an angle or turning or something.

Sorry Larry didn't mean to thread jack ya. I remember when you picked up your truck. I would say for what you bought it for your still pretty good.

[DirtyLarry]

No problem John. Check the upper front shock absorber mounting, as those have been known to work loose and cause noises as well. If you have nerf bars that connect to the body mounting bolts that would also be a good place to look.

[purplehavoc]

Hey guys!
Also check the torsion bar mounts on the frame when you have a pop or clunk noise.
Chased around lots of area's till we found this culprit.
Really noticable when going through dips,speedbumps or curb lips and the such.
Crawl under and try moving the torsion bar crossmember up and down.
Driver side is most common.
Grind and punch out the 4 rivets,and bolt in the new mount.

[Pyrotechnic]

I'm wondering about it's past life. You know how employees treat company trucks. Run em as hard as you can without breaking them and pissing off the boss. Wouldn't be surprised if that truck saw some amateur baja desert racing at some point.

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

No problem John. Check the upper front shock absorber mounting, as those have been known to work loose and cause noises as well. If you have nerf bars that connect to the body mounting bolts that would also be a good place to look.

Just replaced shocks, and still have noise. Have also tightened up the nerf bars as suggested by a friend of mine. Noise still there. Weird thing is it doesn't do it all the time or everytime. Just most of the time.

Originally Posted by purplehavoc

Hey guys!
Also check the torsion bar mounts on the frame when you have a pop or clunk noise.
Chased around lots of area's till we found this culprit.
Really noticable when going through dips,speedbumps or curb lips and the such.
Crawl under and try moving the torsion bar crossmember up and down.
Driver side is most common.
Grind and punch out the 4 rivets,and bolt in the new mount.

I'll check that next. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

I'm wondering about it's past life. You know how employees treat company trucks. Run em as hard as you can without breaking them and pissing off the boss. Wouldn't be surprised if that truck saw some amateur baja desert racing at some point.

I wondered the same thing.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

I'm wondering about it's past life. You know how employees treat company trucks. Run em as hard as you can without breaking them and pissing off the boss. Wouldn't be surprised if that truck saw some amateur baja desert racing at some point.

Yep, no doubt about that but I would still expect it to hold up better than it did. I work in the truck manufacturing business and about year and a half ago I was at one of the durability test tracks that GM uses in South Bend, IN (old Studebaker factory…now Bosch Proving grounds) where we had a status meeting on some delivery vans (non-GM vans) that were going through testing. GM happen to have a couple 1500 series trucks there going through cycles with the new 4.5L diesel (you know the small V8 diesel that didn’t get the approval for production yet) anyway, the track is brutal to say the least. Vehicles encounter more on that test track than they will ever see in real life. The test drivers literally drive with their seat belts OFF because the violent bouncing causes the seat belts to keep ratcheting the drivers tighter into the seats where they could lose control of the vehicle (on the vans anyway with the suspension seat frames). I actually had to hold my ball sack while riding shotgun in this van because some of the sections are so rough. Imagine running over a 50 yard stretch of pavers cemented to the road that are staggered and placed 2 feet apart at 25 MPH…..It is rough! And that was only one “event” as they called it. (You should have seen the GMT900 doors bottoms after an undisclosed time frame of continuous of salt spray testing...eek! Rusty, rusty...even the tester said the actual perforations happened quicker than expected...whatever that time was)

That said, I know GM goes through rigorous testing so my suspicion is GM saw these problems during their durability testing but chose not to address them in order to save money or they just figured by the time these issues would arise the trucks would have 300,000+ miles on them. None the less, a work truck that served 4 years and 100,000 miles in the desert shouldn’t fall apart like this even with a drunken Navajo Indian employee behind the wheel chasing coyotes or whatever.

Outside of GM Powertrain, my opinion is GM has lost their way with respect to full durability of their trucks (overall fit and finish, design engineering, substandard component specifications like sheet metal MIL thickness, serviceability, choosing substandard suppliers of components, etc). It is no wonder Ford is selling Stupid Duties like mad to the commercial world and Dodge is earning quick respect and gaining market share in the commercial side of the truck business like crazy. It seems GM is just the truck for retail customers to haul their jet skis to the lake or grab a sack of nails from Home Depot.

I have to tell ya...I am a major GM fan and GM fed me for years and helped my buy almost everything I have but, if I were to buy a brand new truck today....It sadly wouldn't be a GM.

[Gray Ghost]

Dodge isn't getting any new respect from the mechanics I know and factory sheet metal is equal to them...it's all thin and more easily dented than the old stuff. There are a couple who think Ford is ahead of the game in durability and I can't really disagree with 'em since I am not in that industry.

Chrysler corp has been out of the news lately which worries me about longevity of the mark. I would not count on them to be around for the long road. I doubt very seriously their sheet metal is any thicker than GM or Ford provides.

[chevysbest92]

sounds like that truck took a huge beating, not all quality issues, i mean, come one, the engine mount and cab corners? i beat on my o6 with a reg cab, i dont go baja, but i go muddin, no problems yet, only cab mount issue ive ever had was my 92, but thats beacause of the harsh winters and road salt in NY. and that took 14 years to get through

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by chevysbest92

sounds like that truck took a huge beating, not all quality issues, i mean, come one, the engine mount and cab corners? i beat on my o6 with a reg cab, i dont go baja, but i go muddin, no problems yet, only cab mount issue ive ever had was my 92, but thats beacause of the harsh winters and road salt in NY. and that took 14 years to get through

I have to agree with chevybest, It sounds like the truck was rode hard and put up wet every day of its life. I personally know guys who work the h out their work trucks (chevy and ford) both have little issues but not like you are describing.
I think bashing the later model Chevys on a Chevy site is kind of weak anyway. I have had just about every vintage of chevy truck made and have loved them all including my 2007.

[Pyrotechnic]

What I don't get is why GM went to IFS for all models of 4x4 trucks. In my opinion, Ford did it right by giving the F150 IFS, but letting the Super Duties have a solid front axle. Honestly, who's expecting a 3/4 or 1 ton truck to ride like a car ?

What's also sad is that GM does not offer manual transmissions anymore with any truck. Ford and Dodge have also done this with the half tons, but you can still get a manual in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I don't understand why GM made the ZF6 equipped trucks so rare. It's not because they don't sell, because Ford and Dodge sell plenty of clutch equipped trucks.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I have to agree with chevybest, It sounds like the truck was rode hard and put up wet every day of its life. I personally know guys who work the h out their work trucks (chevy and ford) both have little issues but not like you are describing.
I think bashing the later model Chevys on a Chevy site is kind of weak anyway. I have had just about every vintage of chevy truck made and have loved them all including my 2007.

Like I said a few times already, YES….the truck was worked hard BUT still should have held up better than this. I have seen older GM trucks go through much worse and show less damage.

For some of you that may not know, GM has a known problem with the engine mounts on the GMT800 trucks where the mounts are extremely close to the exhaust manifolds (Go look at your trucks and see). In time, the heat from the exhaust manifolds will cause the rubber in the mounts to become hard and brittle and eventually fall apart, especially if you do a lot of towing and often get those manifolds nice and hot. When the rubber delaminates the engine falls down, causes the air intake tube to rub on the fan shroud and will eventually break the exhaust Y-pipe. When you get your new mounts from the dealer they now come with a heat shield around the rubber to protect it from the heat. Go ask your favorite GM dealer technician about this.

Old vs. new engine mounts


When the air induction pipe is laying on the fan shroud like this……your engine mounts are toast.



Pyrotechnic,

I agree 100% on the IFS thing. I don’t understand GM’s love affair with IFS. The good news is there is a new chassis coming under the GM HD trucks for 2011 (Same ugly paper thin sheet metal body but with new chassis under it). Will they have SFA? I doubt it but we'll see.

Actually, Dodge is the last full-size pickup truck manufacturer to offer a manual transmission in their HD trucks. And for 2010, it is only offered behind the Cummins…..no more manual shift Hemi’s. GM dropped the manual trans option in 2007 and Ford has now discontinued their manual transmission with the introduction of their new 2011 Stupid Duty.

The reality is manual transmission equipped vehicles are harder to meet emissions as they produce more hydrocarbons due to the ever fluctuating RPM’s plus the fact the customer demand for a manual just isn’t there anymore. In my industry we are even seeing an exponential growth of automatic and automated transmissions in class 5 through 8 trucks. That said, with declining demand and increasing federal emissions regulations becoming more difficult to met (and expensive) with each passing year the manual is going the way of the dodo bird.

[Gray Ghost]

My mechanic tells me the same thing about the mounts. I am watching mine like a hawk cause I tow a lot.

[Pyrotechnic]

What kinda effect would adding a set of long tube headers have on the situation ? I'm guessing it would make it even worse ? Reason I ask is my dad has one of these trucks and is wanting to add headers.

[special-K]

I hear about crap on all the trucks these days.They all ollow simular construction methods and are the same paper this sheetmetal.It makes all the difference in the world who drove a vehicle beore you drove it and how they treated it.Employee driven vehicles are not known for pampered histories.You drive something like you don`t care if it breaks,it`s going to break.Especially all this cheap crap they make these days.

[cjracing15]

I hear ya about the thin sheet meatal on the new chevy trucks. I had a 07 gmc service truck with my old company and I loved it except for the body. The inside was nice and the 5.3 was awsome but, the body was beer can thin. I could not lean on it when I was putting gas in it because I was afraid of denting the side.

I have been a chevy man for a long time but THey are going to have to do better with there new truck or I think that they are going to be left in the dust.

I am with you Larry chevy has the BEST drive train out there bar-none but the truck (in my opion) it self sucks and looks awfull.

I guess I will just have to keep my old ones untill they build a better truck.

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by cjracing15

I hear ya about the thin sheet meatal on the new chevy trucks. I had a 07 gmc service truck with my old company and I loved it except for the body. The inside was nice and the 5.3 was awsome but, the body was beer can thin. I could not lean on it when I was putting gas in it because I was afraid of denting the side.

I have been a chevy man for a long time but THey are going to have to do better with there new truck or I think that they are going to be left in the dust.

I am with you Larry chevy has the BEST drive train out there bar-none but the truck (in my opion) it self sucks and looks awfull.

I guess I will just have to keep my old ones untill they build a better truck.

I hate to scatter all hopes to the four winds, but there's never been a time when any automaker put thicker sheetmetal on a newer vehicle. We can only hope the additives they put in the steel will get better over time. I venture to say with the economy lagging for the immediate foreseeable future, ya better keep your current truck for awhile, I sure plan to.

Looking back on my last driver, the old '70 was a tank compared to this one.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

I hate to scatter all hopes to the four winds, but there's never been a time when any automaker put thicker sheetmetal on a newer vehicle.

You got that right. What the manufacturers need to do is just ditch all exterior sheet metal all together and go with RRIM (Reinforced Reaction Injection Molded) polyurea polymer body panels or other composite materials. With the weight savings of RRIM they could afford the weight gain to reinforce the cab and interior bed box with a higher MIL sheet metal to withstand work truck punishment. RRIM is the material that the GMT800 sportside beds were made out of (not the same crap they made the protect-O-bed out of on the fleetsides). RRIM is a great material and has a lot of potential with advancements made to the formulas the last several years.

A composite exterior could provide several advantages to pickup trucks. Rust proof, light weight, dent resistant, and could allow the manufactures to add metal beef back to where it needs to be, like the cab and bed floor. Basically, like the Smart car.

[special-K]

^I totally agree with that thinking.Can I be an engineer now?

[Gray Ghost]

I like that idea, but that would be smart...

[DirtyLarry]

Jon asked for a few pictures of the fender cracks so I figured I would share them all with you as well. There were some major cracks on the driver’s side inner fender where the battery tray bolts to it but it is hard to get a photo with the battery in there. I already welded that spot up anyhow.

I had also forgotten both hood bump stop threaded inserts were broke so I had to weld nuts to the radiator support to give the bump stops something to thread into.

Anybody seen these issues on your trucks yet?