HO52 Drum Brake Questions... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

**COBALT** · 05-23-2006, 06:28 AM

Ok, I finally got some time off from work to deal with this leaky axle seal problem that has basically destroyed my rear brake shoes and goofed up my drums. I managed to get all of the parts lined up, and I just came in from tearing *most* everything apart, but it's led me to a number of questions:

1. After dropping the hub/drum assemblies out I was able to pull the old seals (after some cussing and swearing), and the inner bearings came right out. Piece of cake. Unfortunately the outer bearings seem to be held in place with a very large spring clip. I worked one out, then expected the outer bearing to come out afterward but it didn't budge. I gave it some taps with a large socket on the inner race (bad), but since I have no visible purchase on the outer race I don't see any way of getting it out. Does anyone know the secret of getting these out without damaging the rollers or inner race? I'm worried about damaging it.

2. I noticed when I slid the axles out that the little metal gaskets weren't present from when the axle shop did their work a few years ago. All I saw was their black silicone RTV sealing the axle to the hub. I have a new set when I bought my parts a few weeks ago. Should I use them, and if so what should I seal them with?

3. I think I made a costly mistake. To try and get access to the outer bearing I hammered out the lug studs separating the hub from the drum. I wanted to do this anyway because I have to get these sorry-a$$ drums to a shop to get them cleaned up and turned if necessary. I deformed just about every single lug stud, so I need to get more. Any ideas where to get them? I'm thinking les schwab or the local NAPA. I have no idea how much they're going to be.

4. Also, when the hub separated from the drum the flange inside the drum that is held in place by the lug studs has a little round cardboard gasket behind it. I don't know where the heck to get those. Any ideas on that???

Plenty of questions. I worked until 3am, so I'm not thinking straight and I'm pretty tired. Hopefully in the morning this will all look a little brighter, but here's some pics of how things were @ midnight (more to come later). The first two are the obviously damaged driver's side. The passenger side is in a lot better shape:

**COBALT** · 05-23-2006, 06:40 AM

Here's a few of pics of the axles, cover and differential. The differential cover was leaking, so I figured I'd take care of that too.

I noticed that the differential cover had 3 bolts longer than the rest. They were at the 5, 7, and 8 o'clock positions. I started wondering if that longer one at 8 o'clock should actually be the lowest one at 6 o'clock. Maybe that's why it started leaking??? Just a guess.

Also, the differential pic below sports the 3.90 gears and the detroit locker I'm always yapping about. Aren't they purty?

If you look closely in the differential pic you can see the amount of leaking fluid on the driver's side brake drum in the background.

**COBALT** · 05-23-2006, 02:09 PM

I found out some more information. According to a good source I'm supposed to leave the hub/drum assembly still in tact before the drums can be turned - which means I need new lug studs, and hammer them into place first. I didn't know that. I would have left the studs in if I knew that the brake lathe needs the hub to do its job. This mistake is getting more expensive.

I'm off to town to find if these drums are damaged and can either be turned or they'll have to be replaced...

4x4Poet · 05-24-2006, 02:27 AM

1. Never heard of the outer bearing spring retainer. The outer bearings just fall out. Need a pic, I guess.

If the hubs still have barrel bearings, now would be a good time to upgrade them to tapered roller bearings. Just don't use the Svc Manual's torque recommendation for barrel bearing which must have a healthy pre-load. Tapered bearings need little pre-load.

2. Definitely use the metal gaskets. I seal them with Gaskacinch, but The Right Stuff would probably be OK. I don't like using gasket makers with gaskets. Next axle removal, Gaskacinch will peal right off.

3. I found Carquest has best wheel stud prices. Better than tire shops, even. Maybe you'll find different.

The Carquest/Dorman part number for 9/16" H052 hub studs is DOR 610-190, but your '68 has 1/2" studs, right? In case they're 9/16", that part # is about 1/8" to 1/4" longer than what I pulled off my '72 H052. Gave more thread purchase yet fit in standard acorn lug nuts.

You should not need new studs yet since the brake lathe uses cone shaped mounts to center the hub on the lathe's shaft using the cones against the races. Pounding out the races would entail pounding them back in for brake lathe work. Of course, the drum must be firmly affixed to the hub. Which leads me to the old studs..

As far as the old studs go, pound them back in. If any are too mangled to pound back in, just pound in 5 or 6. The hub & drum only need 4 or so studs to center the drum on the hub. Spread around the hub, obviously. But you might first mic the drums to see if their deepest grooves are far enough under the max dia to warrant turning.

4. Never seen a carboard seperator between hub & drum, but I've only seperated two 71 & two '72 H052 hub assys. Could have been a factory thing to keep rust down between the two.

Unless you want to save some dough with Chinese drums, I recommend getting made in USA drums. Smoother casting and I'm betting a superior metal. Even made in Canada drums have worse casting surface thant he made in USA drums. I've compared the two side by side. Embarrased the parts store that claimed made in Canada was as good as made in USA. I paid $62 per 11" drum.

**COBALT** · 05-24-2006, 03:03 AM

Thanks for the reply!

I found out a little more today after calling about 4 different shops looking for someone who could turn my drums on a lathe. Some of it contradicts your advice, while other bits of info actually confirm what you've said.

First, the big huge retainer clip behind the outer bearing can sorta be seen in the second pic above. If you look closely you'll see an upturned piece of metal above the bearing. That's one of the tabs on the spring clip. The other tab is about an inch to the right of that one. You have to squeeze them together. They were a ***** to get out. I had to use a set of vice grips and move slowly. The inner bearings fell out, but even with the clip out the outer ones won't budge. Also, since I only have a couple of days to get this done I'm sticking with the stock bearings. A shop told me to just leave the outer ones in, and they'll inspect them when I bring in the assemblies. They're in good shape, so we'll probably leave them in.

Second, I already got a new set of lug studs from NAPA earlier today. They were about $1.95 a piece. They were more, but I got a discount for getting 16. Since this is a '69 they're 9/16. Both shops I contacted (one is too busy to give me any time tomorrow for lathe work) told me to don't bother tapping in the old lugs. They also told me I need all 8 in. Basically their lathes are set up to handle the hub assembly like if it was on the axle. They told me to just get the new ones, re-assemble the hub/drum assemblies, and bring them in. I'm just about to re-assemble them now actually. I have both sets of brakes rebuilt with the new shoes, spring kits, adjusters, etc.

The cardboard gasket turned out to be a pain in the butt and a complete waste of time. NAPA doesn't have a part number, and everyone else has said to just seal it with some silicone. So I'm just going to lay down a bead of RTV as a thin barrier when I re-assemble them.

Third, other shops confirmed your approval of the metal gaskets for the axles, but everyone's telling me to use Black Silicone RTV. I have some gaskasinch, and was going to use that on the cover. I suppose using that on the axle flanges is an option.

Finally, I don't think I'll need drums. They're in pretty good shape, and after spending the day cleaning all of these parts I think they'll turn out to be just fine. Hopefully after tomorrow's lathe work I'll be able to re-assemble all of this and be done.

Thanks. I'll be back later to post some more pics and see if you responded again...

**COBALT** · 05-24-2006, 03:30 AM

Here's some more pics. The first one is a shot of that spring retainer clip for the outer bearing. The inner bearing that fell out is right next to it. The outer bearing is still in the hub. Everything looks better cleaned.

I've also included a pic or two of my progress on the brake assemblies. A huge pain, but they're looking good! Once I get the driver's side brakes back together I'm going to assemble the hub/drum assemblies and then hit the hay. 8am comes early...

onpman · 05-25-2006, 12:03 AM

Looks like you made good progress....Don't feel bad about the studs. After using a torch and hammer I ended up mangling mine as well. After getting everything apart I decided to go with the disc brake conversion that I'm still working on. If you haven't gotten the diff cover and third member gaskets the part numbers Fel-Pro# RDS5090 for the rear and #RDS5088 for the front. IIRC the three extra long diff bolts are to hold your rear brake line bracket in place. The only good thing about tearing mine apart was I discovered I had a 4.10 Detroit Locker!

4x4Poet · 05-25-2006, 12:50 AM

Assembling the drums with the new studs to get the absolute final fit before turning the braking surface makes perfect sense. That's got to be better advice from the pros. I haven't had drums worth turning yet, so I didn't have that consideration.

IMO, it's a good thing that you mangled the studs. I think they should be replaced every brake job for the rear shoes unless the rims were rarely R&R'd. Definitely with every drum replacement.

I think we have the inner an outer bearings crossed. The inner bearing is held in by the inner hub seal. The outer bearing is on the axle flange side. I think I did have that clip on my '71 K20 burb when I pulled the H052 hubs in '94 and found barrel roller bearings. IIRC, the spring clip is not needed when upgrading to tapered bearings. Going off faint memory.

**COBALT** · 05-25-2006, 04:56 AM

I found out another surprise today. After getting the hub/drum assemblies together, and having the brake shop turn the drums (they look great btw) I discovered that I had forgot to get replacment lock washers for the hub nuts. They're those funky star washers where the tangs have to be bent in to lock the outer nut in place. NAPA had a part number for ones that might work. They're for a Ford 4x4, but I would have to go out of my way to get them, so I re-used mine. They're getting weak, so I don't know what I'd do for replacements in the future. It might be worth looking into for my parts list.

Anyway I put the assemblies back on the axle spindle, preloaded the bearings by putting on the first nut, and tightening it down to 30-40 ft-lbs, and then backed it off so the slot met up with the keyway on the spindle. On went the keyway washer, the lock washer and the outer nut.

I used gasgasinch on the hub, the metal gasket, the axle flange nuts, and the axle flange. Everything went together great. The book I have calls for 115 ft-lbs for the axle flange bolts, but all I could manage was 90. I think that's plenty.

All I have left is to clean the diff housing cover and mating surfaces (and bolt holes) and seal that up. I already have the gasket. Here's the parts list I'm going from. The only thing missing here is the lug studs.

The items in black are the parts I bought for this project. A couple of items I had to get from their local warehouse, and the felpro gasket had to be brought in from another non-Napa store.

The items in red are no longer in the Napa database, but are replaced by new ones (above them in the list) so they're still obtainable. The items in orange were parts I didn't need to go out and search for, because Napa had an equivalent part number.

Americanrider · 05-26-2006, 04:12 AM

If anyone needs used eaton drums give me a PM, I know of at least 4 or 5 C20's in 2 different scrap yards within 5 miles of my house. There was more of them over in Puyallup but I have not been to those yards in months. I'll give you the name & ph# of the yards.

**COBALT** · 05-28-2006, 08:06 PM

Well, I finished this project on Friday afternoon. Since the last post I had to:

1. replace the tailhousing on the transmission for a new slip-yoke that I had to take to Drivelines NW and have shortened
2. replace a U-joint
3. clean and polish the differential cover
4. get new differential cover bolts
5. retap and clean the bolt holes in the differential housing
6. seal up the differential with a new gasket, and fill it with new gear oil
7. put the tires back on
8. bleed the rear brakes
9. test/adjust the brakes
10. grease the front chasis
11. change the oil

I got all of that done on Thursday and Friday. So far no leaks and the brakes are working great. I'll include a pic of the differential later.

**COBALT** · 05-29-2006, 01:50 PM

Here's a finished pic of the differential. I should have taken a picture before. It was filthy.

I polished it with some emery paper and some cutting oil. Most of the old rust and build-up came right off. If I had time I would have had it coated.

4x4Poet · 05-30-2006, 03:54 AM

Since you filled with with gear oil, I'd spray it with clear enamel. Then the bolts will stay shiny silver and the clear won't bother the black on the axle housing. Not much, anyway. Should last till you change the gear oil next.

Nice job all around, BTW. Looks like it will last another 100k or so.

**COBALT** · 05-30-2006, 02:29 PM

That's not a bad idea. Thanks poet.

Scott McLean · 01-24-2007, 01:41 AM

Lookin for drums for 71 C/20 4x4 leaf sprung,3/4 ton. I am not sure if it is the eaton HO72 or HO52 but I do know its break shoes are much larger than
2 1/2 inches wide. Really would like to keep the stock stuff on this rig as it is in great shape. Can reach me at mclejn7@aol.com
Thank's

**LostMy65** · 01-04-2011, 04:24 AM

I know...

Old thread,

but it has nice pics.

**LostMy65** · 01-04-2011, 10:36 PM

This thread is over 4 years old, but has a lot of useful info for my upcoming project I'm assessing now.
I thought I would pull the drums just to see what was going on inside.
The brakes tend to drag on occasion - nothing real critical like lockups, just an occasional drag.

My question at this time is regarding the appearance of something that looks like wear marks. I wonder what might have caused this?

**LostMy65** · 01-05-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostMy65

This thread is over 4 years old, but has a lot of useful info for my upcoming project I'm assessing now.
I thought I would pull the drums just to see what was going on inside.
The brakes tend to drag on occasion - nothing real critical like lockups, just an occasional drag.

My question at this time is regarding the appearance of something that looks like wear marks. I wonder what might have caused this?

Okay, I just talked to a couple friends about these scraping marks on the inside of the axle housing. The guess is; someone broke an axle sometime back, and these are the scrape marks that resulted, but they are of no harm now.
Thoughts?

**Captainfab** · 01-05-2011, 11:33 PM

I can't really see said marks on this crappy monitor, but the broken axle sounds like a possibility. If the wheel bearings are not loose, and you didn't find any pieces in the center when you opened it up, it is likely from a previous mishap.

**LostMy65** · 01-05-2011, 11:41 PM

Actually, I think you can't see anything because my crappy phone pics

I'm going to take a look at the other side tomorrow.

**LostMy65** · 01-06-2011, 05:20 PM

I'm going to attempt to start tracking down the parts needed to overhaul the rear drum brakes.

Fortunately, the guy who sold me the truck left a new shoe spring brake kit:
Part # 2201
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...01_0094750081#

As I find the parts, I'll post them here.

Also, my shoes are 2-3/4" and the drums are 11-5/32"

**LostMy65** · 01-06-2011, 05:32 PM

Item Number Quantity Product Name
UP UP248R 1 Brake Shoes - Rear, Ultra Premium
$43.39 Core: $13.50 $56.89
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+2014028+26307

Wheel Seal - Rear Wheel
Product Line: NAPA Oil Seals
Part Number: NOS 28426 $11.29
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+50014+2014028

The ones I have in my truck now are Hyatt B11630
Wheel Bearing - Outer - Rear Wheel
Product Line: NAPA Bearings
Part Number: BRG KB11630Z
Price: 64.49
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+59999+3999999

Mine are Hyatt B11786
Wheel Bearing - Inner - Rear Wheel
Product Line: NAPA Bearings
Part Number: BRG KD11786Y
Price: 61.99
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+59999+3999999

**LostMy65** · 01-06-2011, 11:48 PM

Okay, now that I was able to track down some numbers, I did a forum search using B11786 and found an old archived thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69k5

take this to na[ anmd tell em to read the book. got this from napa online. put in for my parts truck and wholla 72 k20 rear axel

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
KD11786Y $ 44.99

w/ H052, H072 Axles

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
A1011 $ 329.00

w/ H052, H072 Axles, Front

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing - Rear Axle
Usually ships within 3 to 5 days. BRG
M5205UV $ 41.49

w/ H052, H072 Axles, Rear

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
382S $ 16.69

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
BR382 $ 17.49

w/ H052, H072 Axles

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
LM501314 $ 6.49

w/ 8.50" Ring Gear

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
387A $ 19.99

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
388A $ 27.99

w/ H052, H072 Axles

NAPA Bearings Differential Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
LM501349 $ 13.49

w/ 8.50" Ring Gear

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
HM803146 $ 28.49

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles, Rear

69k5

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69k5

page 2 from napa online

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
HM88542 $ 19.49

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles, Front

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
HM803110 $ 17.49

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles, Rear

NAPA Bearings Pinion Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. BRG
HM88510 $ 9.99

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles, Front

NAPA Gaskets Axle Housing Cover Gasket - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. NGA
P27768T $ 4.69

NAPA Gaskets Axle Housing Cover Gasket - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. NGA
P27768TC $ 7.49

Tuff-Cork

NAPA Gaskets Differential Carrier Gasket - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. NGA
P29129 $ 3.69

Powerglide Bearings Differential Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. PGB
P382S $ 9.49

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles

Powerglide Bearings Differential Bearing Cup - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. PGB
PLM501314 $ 4.29

w/ 8.50" Ring Gear

Powerglide Bearings Differential Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. PGB
P387A $ 10.99

w/ Spicer/Dana 60, 60-35 Axles

Powerglide Bearings Differential Bearing Cone - Rear Axle
Usually ships in 24 hours. PGB
PLM501349 $ 7.49

w/ 8.50" Ring Gear

69k5

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69k5

courtesy of rod from one of my post theses are the hub bearings and they are timken part numbers

188930 inner bearing
188932 outer bearing

1962 to 1972 used the same ones.

**Captainfab** · 01-07-2011, 02:01 AM

Yep, if you need to replace many, or all the bearings and seals, along with the brakes, it adds up to a pretty big expense. If yours needs much in the way of parts (especially that front pinion bearing) you might consider switching to a later model differential. You might still end up with one that needs some work and parts, but the parts will be less expensive and easier to find. Plus you will have a choice of more highway friendly gears.

**LostMy65** · 01-07-2011, 03:19 AM

I think someone let somethings go a little too long once before.
There are scrapings on the inside of the axle housing as if an axle broke at one time.
No metal shavings now, and the axle looks good.

Also, there's the appearance that something went wrong with the inner or outer hub bearing, but the bearings look good now.

So at this time I think I'll be okay with just new shoes, and the spring kit I found from the previous owner. I also ordered new oil seals and hub gaskets.

But, other than that, I won't be putting anymore money in this rear end.

Oh, and the drums look good also. - not even an outer lip. Probably had them turned when they tore it down to replace the axle and hub bearings.

05-23-2006, 06:28 AM	#1
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Ok, I finally got some time off from work to deal with this leaky axle seal problem that has basically destroyed my rear brake shoes and goofed up my drums. I managed to get all of the parts lined up, and I just came in from tearing most everything apart, but it's led me to a number of questions: 1. After dropping the hub/drum assemblies out I was able to pull the old seals (after some cussing and swearing), and the inner bearings came right out. Piece of cake. Unfortunately the outer bearings seem to be held in place with a very large spring clip. I worked one out, then expected the outer bearing to come out afterward but it didn't budge. I gave it some taps with a large socket on the inner race (bad), but since I have no visible purchase on the outer race I don't see any way of getting it out. Does anyone know the secret of getting these out without damaging the rollers or inner race? I'm worried about damaging it. 2. I noticed when I slid the axles out that the little metal gaskets weren't present from when the axle shop did their work a few years ago. All I saw was their black silicone RTV sealing the axle to the hub. I have a new set when I bought my parts a few weeks ago. Should I use them, and if so what should I seal them with? 3. I think I made a costly mistake. To try and get access to the outer bearing I hammered out the lug studs separating the hub from the drum. I wanted to do this anyway because I have to get these sorry-a$$ drums to a shop to get them cleaned up and turned if necessary. I deformed just about every single lug stud, so I need to get more. Any ideas where to get them? I'm thinking les schwab or the local NAPA. I have no idea how much they're going to be. 4. Also, when the hub separated from the drum the flange inside the drum that is held in place by the lug studs has a little round cardboard gasket behind it. I don't know where the heck to get those. Any ideas on that??? Plenty of questions. I worked until 3am, so I'm not thinking straight and I'm pretty tired. Hopefully in the morning this will all look a little brighter, but here's some pics of how things were @ midnight (more to come later). The first two are the obviously damaged driver's side. The passenger side is in a lot better shape: Attached Images __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-23-2006, 06:40 AM	#2
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Here's a few of pics of the axles, cover and differential. The differential cover was leaking, so I figured I'd take care of that too. I noticed that the differential cover had 3 bolts longer than the rest. They were at the 5, 7, and 8 o'clock positions. I started wondering if that longer one at 8 o'clock should actually be the lowest one at 6 o'clock. Maybe that's why it started leaking??? Just a guess. Also, the differential pic below sports the 3.90 gears and the detroit locker I'm always yapping about. Aren't they purty? If you look closely in the differential pic you can see the amount of leaking fluid on the driver's side brake drum in the background. Attached Images __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-23-2006, 02:09 PM	#3
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I found out some more information. According to a good source I'm supposed to leave the hub/drum assembly still in tact before the drums can be turned - which means I need new lug studs, and hammer them into place first. I didn't know that. I would have left the studs in if I knew that the brake lathe needs the hub to do its job. This mistake is getting more expensive. I'm off to town to find if these drums are damaged and can either be turned or they'll have to be replaced... __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-24-2006, 02:27 AM	#4
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... 1. Never heard of the outer bearing spring retainer. The outer bearings just fall out. Need a pic, I guess. If the hubs still have barrel bearings, now would be a good time to upgrade them to tapered roller bearings. Just don't use the Svc Manual's torque recommendation for barrel bearing which must have a healthy pre-load. Tapered bearings need little pre-load. 2. Definitely use the metal gaskets. I seal them with Gaskacinch, but The Right Stuff would probably be OK. I don't like using gasket makers with gaskets. Next axle removal, Gaskacinch will peal right off. 3. I found Carquest has best wheel stud prices. Better than tire shops, even. Maybe you'll find different. The Carquest/Dorman part number for 9/16" H052 hub studs is DOR 610-190, but your '68 has 1/2" studs, right? In case they're 9/16", that part # is about 1/8" to 1/4" longer than what I pulled off my '72 H052. Gave more thread purchase yet fit in standard acorn lug nuts. You should not need new studs yet since the brake lathe uses cone shaped mounts to center the hub on the lathe's shaft using the cones against the races. Pounding out the races would entail pounding them back in for brake lathe work. Of course, the drum must be firmly affixed to the hub. Which leads me to the old studs.. As far as the old studs go, pound them back in. If any are too mangled to pound back in, just pound in 5 or 6. The hub & drum only need 4 or so studs to center the drum on the hub. Spread around the hub, obviously. But you might first mic the drums to see if their deepest grooves are far enough under the max dia to warrant turning. 4. Never seen a carboard seperator between hub & drum, but I've only seperated two 71 & two '72 H052 hub assys. Could have been a factory thing to keep rust down between the two. Unless you want to save some dough with Chinese drums, I recommend getting made in USA drums. Smoother casting and I'm betting a superior metal. Even made in Canada drums have worse casting surface thant he made in USA drums. I've compared the two side by side. Embarrased the parts store that claimed made in Canada was as good as made in USA. I paid $62 per 11" drum. __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup. Last edited by 4x4Poet; 05-24-2006 at 02:35 AM.

05-24-2006, 03:03 AM	#5
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Thanks for the reply! I found out a little more today after calling about 4 different shops looking for someone who could turn my drums on a lathe. Some of it contradicts your advice, while other bits of info actually confirm what you've said. First, the big huge retainer clip behind the outer bearing can sorta be seen in the second pic above. If you look closely you'll see an upturned piece of metal above the bearing. That's one of the tabs on the spring clip. The other tab is about an inch to the right of that one. You have to squeeze them together. They were a ***** to get out. I had to use a set of vice grips and move slowly. The inner bearings fell out, but even with the clip out the outer ones won't budge. Also, since I only have a couple of days to get this done I'm sticking with the stock bearings. A shop told me to just leave the outer ones in, and they'll inspect them when I bring in the assemblies. They're in good shape, so we'll probably leave them in. Second, I already got a new set of lug studs from NAPA earlier today. They were about $1.95 a piece. They were more, but I got a discount for getting 16. Since this is a '69 they're 9/16. Both shops I contacted (one is too busy to give me any time tomorrow for lathe work) told me to don't bother tapping in the old lugs. They also told me I need all 8 in. Basically their lathes are set up to handle the hub assembly like if it was on the axle. They told me to just get the new ones, re-assemble the hub/drum assemblies, and bring them in. I'm just about to re-assemble them now actually. I have both sets of brakes rebuilt with the new shoes, spring kits, adjusters, etc. The cardboard gasket turned out to be a pain in the butt and a complete waste of time. NAPA doesn't have a part number, and everyone else has said to just seal it with some silicone. So I'm just going to lay down a bead of RTV as a thin barrier when I re-assemble them. Third, other shops confirmed your approval of the metal gaskets for the axles, but everyone's telling me to use Black Silicone RTV. I have some gaskasinch, and was going to use that on the cover. I suppose using that on the axle flanges is an option. Finally, I don't think I'll need drums. They're in pretty good shape, and after spending the day cleaning all of these parts I think they'll turn out to be just fine. Hopefully after tomorrow's lathe work I'll be able to re-assemble all of this and be done. Thanks. I'll be back later to post some more pics and see if you responded again... __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-24-2006, 03:30 AM	#6
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Here's some more pics. The first one is a shot of that spring retainer clip for the outer bearing. The inner bearing that fell out is right next to it. The outer bearing is still in the hub. Everything looks better cleaned. I've also included a pic or two of my progress on the brake assemblies. A huge pain, but they're looking good! Once I get the driver's side brakes back together I'm going to assemble the hub/drum assemblies and then hit the hay. 8am comes early... Attached Images __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-25-2006, 12:03 AM	#7
onpman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: yakima, washington Posts: 63	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Looks like you made good progress....Don't feel bad about the studs. After using a torch and hammer I ended up mangling mine as well. After getting everything apart I decided to go with the disc brake conversion that I'm still working on. If you haven't gotten the diff cover and third member gaskets the part numbers Fel-Pro# RDS5090 for the rear and #RDS5088 for the front. IIRC the three extra long diff bolts are to hold your rear brake line bracket in place. The only good thing about tearing mine apart was I discovered I had a 4.10 Detroit Locker! __________________ It it ain't broke..don't fix it!

05-25-2006, 12:50 AM	#8
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Assembling the drums with the new studs to get the absolute final fit before turning the braking surface makes perfect sense. That's got to be better advice from the pros. I haven't had drums worth turning yet, so I didn't have that consideration. IMO, it's a good thing that you mangled the studs. I think they should be replaced every brake job for the rear shoes unless the rims were rarely R&R'd. Definitely with every drum replacement. I think we have the inner an outer bearings crossed. The inner bearing is held in by the inner hub seal. The outer bearing is on the axle flange side. I think I did have that clip on my '71 K20 burb when I pulled the H052 hubs in '94 and found barrel roller bearings. IIRC, the spring clip is not needed when upgrading to tapered bearings. Going off faint memory. __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup.

05-25-2006, 04:56 AM	#9
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I found out another surprise today. After getting the hub/drum assemblies together, and having the brake shop turn the drums (they look great btw) I discovered that I had forgot to get replacment lock washers for the hub nuts. They're those funky star washers where the tangs have to be bent in to lock the outer nut in place. NAPA had a part number for ones that might work. They're for a Ford 4x4, but I would have to go out of my way to get them, so I re-used mine. They're getting weak, so I don't know what I'd do for replacements in the future. It might be worth looking into for my parts list. Anyway I put the assemblies back on the axle spindle, preloaded the bearings by putting on the first nut, and tightening it down to 30-40 ft-lbs, and then backed it off so the slot met up with the keyway on the spindle. On went the keyway washer, the lock washer and the outer nut. I used gasgasinch on the hub, the metal gasket, the axle flange nuts, and the axle flange. Everything went together great. The book I have calls for 115 ft-lbs for the axle flange bolts, but all I could manage was 90. I think that's plenty. All I have left is to clean the diff housing cover and mating surfaces (and bolt holes) and seal that up. I already have the gasket. Here's the parts list I'm going from. The only thing missing here is the lug studs. The items in black are the parts I bought for this project. A couple of items I had to get from their local warehouse, and the felpro gasket had to be brought in from another non-Napa store. The items in red are no longer in the Napa database, but are replaced by new ones (above them in the list) so they're still obtainable. The items in orange were parts I didn't need to go out and search for, because Napa had an equivalent part number. Attached Images __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-26-2006, 04:12 AM	#10
Americanrider Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NW, WA. Posts: 1,421	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... If anyone needs used eaton drums give me a PM, I know of at least 4 or 5 C20's in 2 different scrap yards within 5 miles of my house. There was more of them over in Puyallup but I have not been to those yards in months. I'll give you the name & ph# of the yards.

05-28-2006, 08:06 PM	#11
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Well, I finished this project on Friday afternoon. Since the last post I had to: 1. replace the tailhousing on the transmission for a new slip-yoke that I had to take to Drivelines NW and have shortened 2. replace a U-joint 3. clean and polish the differential cover 4. get new differential cover bolts 5. retap and clean the bolt holes in the differential housing 6. seal up the differential with a new gasket, and fill it with new gear oil 7. put the tires back on 8. bleed the rear brakes 9. test/adjust the brakes 10. grease the front chasis 11. change the oil I got all of that done on Thursday and Friday. So far no leaks and the brakes are working great. I'll include a pic of the differential later. __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-29-2006, 01:50 PM	#12
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Here's a finished pic of the differential. I should have taken a picture before. It was filthy. I polished it with some emery paper and some cutting oil. Most of the old rust and build-up came right off. If I had time I would have had it coated. Attached Images __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

05-30-2006, 03:54 AM	#13
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	Since you filled with with gear oil, I'd spray it with clear enamel. Then the bolts will stay shiny silver and the clear won't bother the black on the axle housing. Not much, anyway. Should last till you change the gear oil next. Nice job all around, BTW. Looks like it will last another 100k or so. __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup.

05-30-2006, 02:29 PM	#14
COBALT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 5,817	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... That's not a bad idea. Thanks poet. __________________ '69 3/4 ton C20 2wd-350ci/TH400 '69 3/4 ton Custom 20 2wd-350ci/4sp Manual '99 2wd 5.7 Chevy Tahoe Seattle, WA.

01-24-2007, 01:41 AM	#15
Scott McLean Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puyallup Washington Posts: 10	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Lookin for drums for 71 C/20 4x4 leaf sprung,3/4 ton. I am not sure if it is the eaton HO72 or HO52 but I do know its break shoes are much larger than 2 1/2 inches wide. Really would like to keep the stock stuff on this rig as it is in great shape. Can reach me at mclejn7@aol.com Thank's



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01-04-2011, 04:24 AM	#16
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I know... Old thread, but it has nice pics. __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035 Last edited by LostMy65; 01-04-2011 at 04:24 AM.

01-04-2011, 10:36 PM	#17
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... This thread is over 4 years old, but has a lot of useful info for my upcoming project I'm assessing now. I thought I would pull the drums just to see what was going on inside. The brakes tend to drag on occasion - nothing real critical like lockups, just an occasional drag. My question at this time is regarding the appearance of something that looks like wear marks. I wonder what might have caused this? __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035 Last edited by LostMy65; 01-04-2011 at 10:38 PM.

01-05-2011, 11:33 PM	#19
Captainfab 60-66 Nut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Posts: 23,246	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I can't really see said marks on this crappy monitor, but the broken axle sounds like a possibility. If the wheel bearings are not loose, and you didn't find any pieces in the center when you opened it up, it is likely from a previous mishap. __________________ Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE

01-05-2011, 11:41 PM	#20
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Actually, I think you can't see anything because my crappy phone pics I'm going to take a look at the other side tomorrow. __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035

01-06-2011, 05:20 PM	#21
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I'm going to attempt to start tracking down the parts needed to overhaul the rear drum brakes. Fortunately, the guy who sold me the truck left a new shoe spring brake kit: Part # 2201 http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...01_0094750081# As I find the parts, I'll post them here. Also, my shoes are 2-3/4" and the drums are 11-5/32" __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035 Last edited by LostMy65; 01-06-2011 at 05:24 PM.

01-06-2011, 05:32 PM	#22
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Item Number Quantity Product Name UP UP248R 1 Brake Shoes - Rear, Ultra Premium $43.39 Core: $13.50 $56.89 http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+2014028+26307 Wheel Seal - Rear Wheel Product Line: NAPA Oil Seals Part Number: NOS 28426 $11.29 http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+50014+2014028 The ones I have in my truck now are Hyatt B11630 Wheel Bearing - Outer - Rear Wheel Product Line: NAPA Bearings Part Number: BRG KB11630Z Price: 64.49 http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+59999+3999999 Mine are Hyatt B11786 Wheel Bearing - Inner - Rear Wheel Product Line: NAPA Bearings Part Number: BRG KD11786Y Price: 61.99 http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+59999+3999999 __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035 Last edited by LostMy65; 01-06-2011 at 11:43 PM.

01-07-2011, 02:01 AM	#24
Captainfab 60-66 Nut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Posts: 23,246	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... Yep, if you need to replace many, or all the bearings and seals, along with the brakes, it adds up to a pretty big expense. If yours needs much in the way of parts (especially that front pinion bearing) you might consider switching to a later model differential. You might still end up with one that needs some work and parts, but the parts will be less expensive and easier to find. Plus you will have a choice of more highway friendly gears. __________________ Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE

01-07-2011, 03:19 AM	#25
LostMy65 But Found Her 25yrs Later! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 10,488	Re: HO52 Drum Brake Questions... I think someone let somethings go a little too long once before. There are scrapings on the inside of the axle housing as if an axle broke at one time. No metal shavings now, and the axle looks good. Also, there's the appearance that something went wrong with the inner or outer hub bearing, but the bearings look good now. So at this time I think I'll be okay with just new shoes, and the spring kit I found from the previous owner. I also ordered new oil seals and hub gaskets. But, other than that, I won't be putting anymore money in this rear end. Oh, and the drums look good also. - not even an outer lip. Probably had them turned when they tore it down to replace the axle and hub bearings. __________________ I lost my 65 - Found it 25 years later: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=426650 66 C20 Service Truck: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=428035 Last edited by LostMy65; 01-07-2011 at 03:27 AM.

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