Starting my engine build

[Mrturner1]

It was a little tricky getting the timing gears but turned with indicators in the right direction AND get the chain on. Easy to get the gears on and pointing the right way, and easy to get the chain on, but a PiTA to do both at the same time haha

[tcrist]

Naw, it is actually real easy.

Turn the cam until the dot on the gear would point straight down (like if the gear was on it). Just has to be close. Set both gears in the timing chain aligned dot to dot and start sliding on the crank gear. The cam gear will line up and pop straight on.


Did you see this post about timing gear alignment and turning it to #1 TDC, http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=695582

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Naw, it is actually real easy.

Turn the cam until the dot on the gear would point straight down (like if the gear was on it). Just has to be close. Set both gears in the timing chain aligned dot to dot and start sliding on the crank gear. The cam gear will line up and pop straight on.


Did you see this post about timing gear alignment and turning it to #1 TDC, http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=695582

That was a good read, made it a little more clear to me about what to do with the plug wires too. Sounds like he needs to take to timing cover off

[Mrturner1]

Alright well I'm heading to the hardware store this morning. One of the cam gear bolts broke so I need a bolt getter outter and a new 5/16's course thread by 1". Then I'll be off and running again. I have a really nice torque wrench but it only goes down to 25 lbs and the bolt called for 20 lbs. I may pick up a smaller torque wrench while I'm out, and I need a micrometer as well as I'm closing in on the head install.

Read that post from about and it got my wondering about valve adjustment. During the install process you tighten the rockers down, you go a half turn past the specified torque rating correct? I'll definitely post up here when the heads are about to go on but that other thread got me thinkin and trying to plan ahead a bit

[davepl]

Make sure you get the right "grade" of bolt. I assume cam bolts -could- be Grade 8, but do not know. They're marked on the top of the bolts, you can find a little chart online if that's news.

Setting the valves really isn't tricky but I think you need a mentor on that one, or lots of reading, or more posts!

Here's my nickel take on it:

- Get the cylinder in question to TDC by method of your choice
- Feel the up-down slack in the pushrod (there must be some, if not, back off nut until there is)
- Tighten the nut -just- until that up-down slack goes away - stop /right/ at the point where you've taken up all slack
- Tighten the nut 1/2 turn more (or 3/4 or 1/4, whatever the setting is, but 1/2 if in doubt)
- Move to next cylinder

Now I'll tell you two things I've observed watching my engine builder. The first is that he ignores my advice of looking for up-down slack. He feels the rotation of the pushrod. That's OK if you've been doing it 40 years, but a well-lubricated pushrod will still rotate long after the slack is taken up, even if the lifter is a little collapsed, so it's a bad way to do it. Any mistakes he made are 35 years ago though, but you don't want 5 years of mistakes :-) You want to know when there's no room left without collapsing the plunger, and slack tells you that.

The second thing is that he can work his way down the firing order... 1, then 8, then 4, then... actually he's got a shorter system so he doesn't have to walk around as much, I'll have to ask what the pattern is. But I bring each cylinder to TDC one after another, I'm not that fancy. Wastes a few rotations and a little walking I guess.

Others will no doubt have more detail and fill in some of the blanks.

[davepl]

BTW in case it wasn't clear, there's no relevance of the torque rating. It's a lock nut (of sorts) that you're setting lash (clearance) with, not torquing it down. So it's an adjustment like your carb idle, not something that gets tightened to any torque value.

It's also very important to be at TDC (actually, better to wait for the intake to just start closing to set the exhaust, and for the exhaust opening to set the intake - google "intake closing, exhaust opening" for details). Otherwise if the lifter is off the base circle you can't adjust anything.

[Mrturner1]

Now we're Rollin, busted knuckles, a headache and a beer and it's only noon haha

[Mrturner1]

My crank pulley has a few different marks, triangle and square for adv and retard. Here's a pic for verification

[Mrturner1]

Timing gears

[Mrturner1]

Bought a nice timing cover and it won't fit, not sure what the peice on the bottom is for

EDIT...are there one and two peice timing covers? And if so, can I leave the one currently on the engine that was never removed or do I have to pull it

[Mrturner1]

What do you make of this?

[Mrturner1]

Drivers side, same thing. Definitely cut by someone. What was it for though

[Davidf]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Bought a nice timing cover and it won't fit, not sure what the peice on the bottom is for

EDIT...are there one and two peice timing covers? And if so, can I leave the one currently on the engine that was never removed or do I have to pull it

It seems your engine had a two piece timing cover installed. Remove the oil pan and timing cover sealing flange and it will make sense to you. The one cover in the photo is a one piece cover and works the same way as the two piece. I think.

[tcrist]

If the old timing cover will fit with the new timing chain then just get a gasket and reuse it. If not, to use a 1 piece cover, you will have to drop the pan, install the 1 piece timing cover and re-install the pan.

Dropping the pan = new pan gaskets and about 1-2 hours of your time if you have to crawl under your truck to do it.

[Grumpy old man]

The frame was cut for poor fitting headers that wouldn't clear.

In the nicest way I can possibly try to explain this I have to say (IN MY OPINION ) you should have

Gotten a baseline set of compression tests dry ,wet, and a true dyno run just to see where you were already at .

The engine should have been pulled and all available driveline(trans,rear diff ,ratio? info collected and condition of all the parts to be reused assessed and the engine compartment and frame cleaned as good as possible .

The last few pictures show reassembly when there is still old grease flaking old rtv sealant and metal filings everywhere ? you haven't cleaned or prepped anything and it seems the old crusty oil pan is still in place ? the oil pan has to come off if for no other reason than to clean out anything that's made it's way down there during 2 recent tear downs ?

Just opening the top end and throwing a bunch of expensive shiny parts into an unknown bottom end without using any type of clean process will basically leave you with an engine with enough blowby to be considered junk in short order.

My own personal advice (OPINION) is to STOP right where your at and get some local hands on help to do the job correctly as possible rather than be heart broken over a project that could last for many years just by using some hands on help and basic clean building technique . A used engine lift and stand bought off craigslist for $150.00 is less than you'll spend on gaskets . Please slow down you'll be much happier just by waiting a little longer to go screaming down the road rather than doing it all over again next week . i've seen pictures of your barn so you have a place to set it up on a stand and do it right once..


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[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

The frame was cut for poor fitting headers that wouldn't clear.

In the nicest way I can possibly try to explain this I have to say (IN MY OPINION ) you should have

Gotten a baseline set of compression tests dry ,wet, and a true dyno run just to see where you were already at .

The engine should have been pulled and all available driveline(trans,rear diff ,ratio? info collected and condition of all the parts to be reused assessed and the engine compartment and frame cleaned as good as possible .

The last few pictures show reassembly when there is still old grease flaking old rtv sealant and metal filings everywhere ? you haven't cleaned or prepped anything and it seems the old crusty oil pan is still in place ? the oil pan has to come off if for no other reason than to clean out anything that's made it's way down there during 2 recent tear downs ?

Just opening the top end and throwing a bunch of expensive shiny parts into an unknown bottom end without using any type of clean process will basically leave you with an engine with enough blowby to be considered junk in short order.

My own personal advice (OPINION) is to STOP right where your at and get some local hands on help to do the job correctly as possible rather than be heart broken over a project that could last for many years just by using some hands on help and basic clean building technique . A used engine lift and stand bought off craigslist for $150.00 is less than you'll spend on gaskets . Please slow down you'll be much happier just by waiting a little longer to go screaming down the road rather than doing it all over again next week . i've seen pictures of your barn so you have a place to set it up on a stand and do it right once..


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A little reading would do you good and help filter your constant negativity. The metal shavings are from drilling and extracting the broken bolt on the cam gear. And I'm building the motor for the experience and fun factor, it's therapeutic and I need all the peace of mind I can get currently. In the nicest way possible, lighten up Grumpy. So far you've posted that I shouldn't be buying parts because my kids need things more than my truck, it would've been fast enough with the parts I already have, and get help cuz you're doing it wrong wrong wrong....it's a build thread Grump, and I don't need a life coach or financial adviser. Your wisdom and knowledge is very valuable and more than welcome, but cut the negativity please. I'm doin this myself, I'm not going broke, my kids are great, and when I'm done if all goes well I'm gonna smoke these old tires with a big ole smile and then go get new ones.

[Money_pit]

I'd definitely drop that pan. Chances are you've got some debris in there. And then you'll be able to get that one piece oil pan gasket like I was telling you about. It makes more sense if your down this far to go ahead and reseal it anyway. It will be even easier to to install timing cover with pan dropped anyway.

[JDL]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

What do you make of this?

that is from some one cutting 0ut the crewmember fro a manual trans.

[GRX]

Regarding the timing cover to pan seal. Look closely at this image from Fel Pro and be sure you use the proper thickness front gasket for your pan.

You will probably need to drop the pan a little to get that seal lip on the timing cover to clear. A very common issue. Some guys bend that lip over and goop a butt load of sealer on there. Do not go that route.

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

A little reading would do you good and help filter your constant negativity. The metal shavings are from drilling and extracting the broken bolt on the cam gear. And I'm building the motor for the experience and fun factor, it's therapeutic and I need all the peace of mind I can get currently. In the nicest way possible, lighten up Grumpy. So far you've posted that I shouldn't be buying parts because my kids need things more than my truck, it would've been fast enough with the parts I already have, and get help cuz you're doing it wrong wrong wrong....it's a build thread Grump, and I don't need a life coach or financial adviser. Your wisdom and knowledge is very valuable and more than welcome, but cut the negativity please. I'm doin this myself, I'm not going broke, my kids are great, and when I'm done if all goes well I'm gonna smoke these old tires with a big ole smile and then go get new ones.

Well said.

[swamp rat]

Here's an example of a 2 piece timing cover. may help ya see that you could get the one gasket and just button the cover up without dropping the pan could save time and effort.. one only problem with that is who made the cover?

That said, pending the situation ( your call ) don't discount the advice of pulling the pan and cleaning it out and installing a new gasket. I wish i had installed a 2 piece on my 350 when i built it.


https://www.holley.com/products/acce...its/parts/1099

[toolboxchev]

Dear Mr. Turner,

This thread of yours my good man has turned into something of a monster, and I at best am here to open something up.

I would be of great suggestion to go ahead and pull that motor. Everyone here wants to see you win.

Its 12 pages long now and that stupid broken bolt is out. If I had it my way and knew of this site when I did my top end rebuild I may have walked a different road.

It will be more bloody knuckles, broken bolts and grief and agony, then in the end you will have the satisfaction of one rip snorting snotty torque nosed little beast.

The choice is yours, I was very happy in the end on my last garage shade tree ultra top notch industrious internet savvy rebuild.

I learn more every day, I aint selling it and will be doing it again.

[Grumpy old man]

Well ... Please don't take some old guys suggestions as being Negative, And I understand the "fun factor" of just jumping in and doing it come heck or high water be it as it may factor . My generation considered being "politically correct" as making a donation to your local political candidate .So if my comments come off as negative don't read them that way ...More so as just observations to try to help avoid potential pitfalls you don't need to endure learned from way too many years of turning wrenches for a living and having to do it once the right way to keep from going back and doing it all over again and loosing shop profits .So I guess it's just the old shop owner cringing as I read that pushes me to post like I was talking to one of the guys working in the shop . So indulge some suggestions but don't take them as in any way being Negative as much as trying to be informative .

[slikside]

I'm diggin this thread....and looking forward to the next 12 pages.
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[BrianG]

12 Pages and counting means that you have a lot of people following this and participating in the discussion. I think that many, including myself are routing for a successful build. Although some may appear to be negative, I believe it is mostly just those hoping that you don't fail for simple reasons that we've either done or experienced first hand ourselves. There's no doubt that you are going forward with building a new motor, so anything about what you should have done with the old motor or parts is sort of irrelevant at this point. However, please don't discount a lot of the other posts as negativity towards your decision to build this motor. There is a lot to be learned here, which you and others are doing. I continue to watch and hope for a successful endeavor.