Factory Correct Restoration Details

[Sicklajoie]

Originally Posted by Duncan and son

When Jason (sameyrasmea72) was a kid he grew up watching us build NCRS, bloomington gold and top flight mid year corvettes. Of all the folks that restore cars, corvette people are the most fanatic, duplicating factory runs in the paint, over spray in undesirable places, not only bolts with correct finish but correct pattern on the head and no paint under parts that were on the unit when under the hood and bottom were blacked out. Example: the hood hinges were natural with black over spray and no paint under the hinge. Probably an over kill on explanation but my point is that Jason probably knows as much about correctness as anyone. I always say he is smarter than a white rat. Paul

MOPAR guys are in the same category, maybe even worse.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Duncan and son

When Jason (sameyrasmea72) was a kid he grew up watching us build NCRS, bloomington gold and top flight mid year corvettes. Of all the folks that restore cars, corvette people are the most fanatic, duplicating factory runs in the paint, over spray in undesirable places, not only bolts with correct finish but correct pattern on the head and no paint under parts that were on the unit when under the hood and bottom were blacked out. Example: the hood hinges were natural with black over spray and no paint under the hinge. Probably an over kill on explanation but my point is that Jason probably knows as much about correctness as anyone. I always say he is smarter than a white rat. Paul

Corvette guys have it easy. One plant, one product, relatively low line speed.

Trucks inherently have a greater variety of product (ie, seven engines, four transmissions, two or more wheelbases, two or three cab types, two or four wheel drive, dually vs single rear wheel, etc). The amount of proliferation in the truck world is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome.

Additionally, during the squarebody era, trucks were built across seven different assembly plants. The opportunity for build variation, due to environment or history (past build monuments) was overwhelming. There was even process variation within the same plant building the same product (ie, at Flint Assembly: Line 1 pickup front end sheet metal was built "piecemeal" - one fender added at a time. Line 2 Blazer/Suburban front end sheet metal was installed as a unit - fenders and radiator support added at the same time).

Lastly - there can be variation between shifts and individual operators.

The Corvette guys would have a cow if they knew some the stuff we did/varied in order to get trucks built - 60 jobs/hour (that's one truck every minute).

K

[70STOVEBOLT]

TTT! Let's see if we can compile any more info on this thread!

[burb71]

ttt

[burb71]

ttt

[DeadheadNM]

See this thread for some additional useful details: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=624189

[DeadheadNM]

The "clamp" that secures the power steering hoses together. Didn't realize pickups had these until recently - this one came from my 72 K1500

[DreamRyder1963]

Something I have noticed is that a lot of the factory photos of engines depict fans with clutch assembles. I understand that they would of come on the high performance models but I have also seem them shown on the basic 327 and 350 pictures. I have never seem a factory engine with a fan clutch in this gen truck.

[rsavage]

Originally Posted by DreamRyder1963

Something I have noticed is that a lot of the factory photos of engines depict fans with clutch assembles. I understand that they would of come on the high performance models but I have also seem them shown on the basic 327 and 350 pictures. I have never seem a factory engine with a fan clutch in this gen truck.

I've had three factory AC trucks of 67-72 vintage and they had fan clutches. Obviously I didn't have them from new so don't know if they were factory equipped with them or not, but it seems to me that they would have been.

[DreamRyder1963]

Originally Posted by rsavage

I've had three factory AC trucks of 67-72 vintage and they had fan clutches. Obviously I didn't have them from new so don't know if they were factory equipped with them or not, but it seems to me that they would have been.

I wonder if the a/c trucks got them while the non-a/c trucks did not. I assume that the where to offset the power drain from the compressor.

[FirstOwner69]

Originally Posted by DreamRyder1963

I wonder if the a/c trucks got them while the non-a/c trucks did not. I assume that the where to offset the power drain from the compressor.

My 69 with 350 and A/C came with a 4 row radiator and fan clutch. I think there may have also been a HD cooling option that also would probably have had the clutch and 4 row radiator.

[WhiteWhale]

subscribed

[Keith Seymore]

Sorry to be joining late; I'd like to make a few comments but should make an introduction before I do.

I am a second generation GM employee. My dad worked for GM for 32 years, in manufacturing (pressed metal) and advanced manufacturing engineering. He holds several patents including the invention of laminated steel and is the GM patentholder for the hydroform process. He also raced professionally for Pontiac Motor Division through Royal Pontiac in the mid 1960's.

I have been with GM for 36 years, in vehicle assembly and product engineering. I started at Chevrolet Flint Assembly as a GMI student, my first real job being an assembly line supervisor. I moved into engineering and have been there ever since, as a design release engineer and program level engineer, and have either been resident or launched product in about a dozen different GM plants (Flint, Pontiac, Ft Wayne, Oshawa, Janesville, St Louis, Arlington, Silao, Wentzville, Detroit-Hamtramck and Mishawaka). Because of the Pontiac influence I am also a student of historic assembly process and am quite familiar with the flow and techniques used in the mid 1960's Pontiac Michigan assembly plant.

I currently have design/release responsibility for the underbody structure on the K2XX pickups (as well as the whole pickup box) and the GMT610 vans.

Having said all that: you guys are generally on the right track. I'd like to go back and touch up some of the comments and then make myself available for any specific questions you might have.

K

[rsavage]

Always enjoy hearing how things were done from you Keith. For those of you who don't know Keith he is active on The Performance Year Pontiac board and his 6000 mile Royal Pontiac 65 GTO that his Dad raced is often used as a reference. He is extremely knowledgeable and a real asset to our hobby.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by rsavage

Always enjoy hearing how things were done from you Keith. For those of you who don't know Keith he is active on The Performance Year Pontiac board and his 4900 mile Royal Pontiac 65 GTO that his Dad raced is often used as a reference. He is extremely knowledgeable and a real asset to our hobby.

Thank you; fixed that for ya'



K

[rsavage]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Thank you; fixed that for ya'



K

Sorry Keith, for some reason (old age) I had the wrong number stuck in my head.

[jimbosprint]

What color should the AC bracket for a 72 be? (the one on top that bolts to the intake) How about the bottom AC bracket that bolts to the exhaust?

Mine appears to be painted orange (the top one at least). The adjustable bracket that connects to it also looks like it was orange.

[rsavage]

Originally Posted by jimbosprint

What color should the AC bracket for a 72 be? (the one on top that bolts to the intake) How about the bottom AC bracket that bolts to the exhaust?

Mine appears to be painted orange (the top one at least). The adjustable bracket that connects to it also looks like it was orange.

The sets that I have cleaned up and restored appeared to have been factory black. There are seven pieces, if I remember correctly, to the truck AC brackets.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by jimbosprint

What color should the AC bracket for a 72 be? (the one on top that bolts to the intake) How about the bottom AC bracket that bolts to the exhaust?

Mine appears to be painted orange (the top one at least). The adjustable bracket that connects to it also looks like it was orange.

Black.

K

[toms68cst]

Keith et all,

Thanks for all of your comments and insight. Reading all of your stories is really interesting.

Here is a picture of my engine compartment before I rebuilt the 327 several years ago.

As I said previously, I can't say how my alternator bracket got to be orange. I checked all the date codes on my 327 and am convinced that all the major components are original and from around the same few weeks in the spring of 1968. The paint on the bracket was very hard and seemed original to me when I stripped it. (Not rattle-canned) There was no evidence of black paint underneath it.

I am pretty sure that I bought my truck from the original owner and there was no apparent repainting in the engine compartment.

As a child of the 60's and 70's, I do remember a day when used car dealers would re-paint engine blocks to make them appear extra clean and more saleable. This might explain why some engine components got to be the wrong color on some trucks.

I guess I envision some guy running to the engine paint line and handing the painter these previously back-ordered alternator brackets at the last minute with instructions to bolt them to the block and paint them with the block.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by toms68cst

Keith et all,

Thanks for all of your comments and insight. Reading all of your stories is really interesting...

I guess I envision some guy running to the engine paint line and handing the painter these previously back-ordered alternator brackets at the last minute with instructions to bolt them to the block and paint them with the block.

Thank you for the kind words. I never quite know how much is "too much" and I use comments like yours to fine tune the quantity of info.

Re your vision: that's my point. The engine block and the alternator bracket are several hundred mile apart until they come together on the motor line in the vehicle assembly plant, and there's no painting going on then. The scenario you've proposed could not happen.

K

[burb71]

For sure Keith If you know that you know the answers, please chime in and share the knowledge.
When it comes to what happened at the factory the rest of us are just guessing!
You are now henceforth to be known as…Our man on the inside![/B]

[jimbosprint]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Thank you for the kind words. I never quite know how much is "too much" and I use comments like yours to fine tune the quantity of info.

Re your vision: that's my point. The engine block and the alternator bracket are several hundred mile apart until they come together on the motor line in the vehicle assembly plant, and there's no painting going on then. The scenario you've proposed could not happen.

K

So in the case of my top AC bracket that bolts with the intake manifold, do they leave the bolts out of the intake at the engine plant or do they back them out and put them back in at the assembly line? Would the bolt heads be painted orange?

[sodly]

Originally Posted by toms68cst

Keith et all,

Thanks for all of your comments and insight. Reading all of your stories is really interesting.

Here is a picture of my engine compartment before I rebuilt the 327 several years ago.

As I said previously, I can't say how my alternator bracket got to be orange. I checked all the date codes on my 327 and am convinced that all the major components are original and from around the same few weeks in the spring of 1968. The paint on the bracket was very hard and seemed original to me when I stripped it. (Not rattle-canned) There was no evidence of black paint underneath it.

I am pretty sure that I bought my truck from the original owner and there was no apparent repainting in the engine compartment.

As a child of the 60's and 70's, I do remember a day when used car dealers would re-paint engine blocks to make them appear extra clean and more saleable. This might explain why some engine components got to be the wrong color on some trucks.

I guess I envision some guy running to the engine paint line and handing the painter these previously back-ordered alternator brackets at the last minute with instructions to bolt them to the block and paint them with the block.

I've had the same question about 68 alternator brackets, at least on 327 trucks. At first I thought it was impossible that they were orange from the factory, too, but I have since seen a few very low mileage "survivor" 68s with the same orange bracket. Seems like more than a coincidence to me. Despite what the insiders are saying, I think you're on to something here. I don't think you're nuts. Perhaps there was some slight variation at one plant for some long-since-forgotten reason that's causing all this consternation today.

[RedRoad]

Drive train color question.

Vehicle: 1972 K20 Suburban built Flint plant

The NP205 transfer case is the original and looks to be red oxide primer, the rear drive shaft shows no sign of any color and is covered in surface rust but the front shaft has what looks to be red oxide on the front female section which connects to the diff.

Were both drive shafts (both the small female end and the long tube) on both the front and rear painted red oxide matching the transfer case or left raw? Most paint them black but Id rather follow what is factory.

For the front and rear axles and springs, were they also painted black from the factory? Only the rear diff cover shows any evidence of black paint.

Any low mile 4x4s out there with unmolested undercarriage? Pics?

Thanks for any info