200r4 vs 700r4

[Andy4639]

I started out with a 700-R4 that had all the corvette upgrades done to it. I don't have no monster motor but I have over 150,000 miles on the trans. When I did mine back in 1990 the 200-R4 was the weakest of the 2. They were for V-6 motors in most cases, they weren't built for V-8's at that time. The same for the camero 5 speeds some where meant for V-8's some weren't. As for the turbo G/N 200-R4 they were not plentiful at the time nor was the updates to make them handle the power of a V-8. Just make sure you get a 700-R4 that has been upgraded to handle the power. If the shop say's it is get it in writting, with the warrinty.

[krue]

www.700r4.com has both at comparable prices, so it's gonna come down to personal preference.

[krue]

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...SUBCAT&CATID=B 700r4 prices

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...SUBCAT&CATID=C 2004r prices

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by krue

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...SUBCAT&CATID=B 700r4 prices

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...SUBCAT&CATID=C 2004r prices

Just shortened up my homework/research. Thanks.

[Bowtie67]

I will pass on a little more info about the Buick Turbo V6 GN, when they first came out I used to work for a Buick Dealership, These trans were blowing left and right, and took GM quite some time to fix the issue andd the fix was not the same as other vehicles running the 200R4, I have also seen many 305 Z28 Camaro's that when hammering these transmisions they start slipping worse than the early GM700R4 trans, On another note both of these transmissions over the years dramatically improved, probally one reason why the 700R4 has such a bad rep is due to all the trucks using them and towing with them and they would burn up. If 200R4 transmissions were so good why didnt they put them in the Vette or Trucks or the 350 Z28's the smaller 305's had the 200R4 trans. The 2004R4 is very simular to the Turbo 350 as the 700R4 is to the Turbo 400, the 200 has less drivetrain loss than the 700 does.

[Longhorn Man]

I can't remember the details on what spacific parts on each tranny, but the strong points on one, are the weak points on the other, and vica-versa. Either way, to make either of the two hold up under more than 250 RWH, for 100k with some spirited driving, you'll have to put a little money in it.
Another recent option that is idoable now, the 4l80E. While just getting the tranny and having it rebuilt (or buying a knwn good unit) will cost more, the tranny is WAY more bullit proof than wither of the weaker cousins. What makes it doable now, is the full manual valve body avalible. No more computer is needed...if you are willing to shift gears on your own. In all honesty, this is an option I am considering more than either the 700 R4 or the 200 4R. (not that either will happen soon...and the gear vendors bolted to a TH400 is STILL gonna be stronger)

[Andy4639]

I have the 700-R4 and never had to manually shift it. I bought the torque lock up from B&M shifter for it and added a toggle switch to keep it out if just riding around town and then flip it on for highway use. It has worked fine. It automatically locks up at 45mph and unlocks under 45 with it on and nothing with it off.

[Bowtie67]

I dont have to shift mine manual either but it sure is fun, ene at part throttle it will snap your head back if not give you whiplash, Wifes not impressed with the shifting or the power.. Good thing she don't have to drive it...

[shortbed70]

I've got a 65 chevy with a 355 and I am going with a 2004R out of a 86 monte ss. The car came equipt with a 305 ho motor. You need to order a few parts for sure like a stronger servo,lockup kit and shift improver kit to help line pressure. I have done some resurch and trans for trans they both have their drawbacks.for a stock motor i wouldn't worry about either one stock. Just make sure you set it up right.

[pound41]

My 1985 monte Carlo SS with the 200R4. Has just over 100,000 miles ; Again between 1st and 2nd still 1/2 turn chirps the tires and squats the rear side ways. On the upper at 65 when you kick down on it I had 2 things happen depending on how hard I stay down on it. The tire chirp as it shifts out which is pretty good for being on the high end.. The other when I stayed in it from at 65mph when it kicks in. It goes past 85mph in a second and continued to climb. Leaving a friend that had a mustang who was going around 100mph. There are some under the hood markings on the car that I have had since 87 that lead me to believe that it was one of the ones the Virginia State police had. Part of the reason I like the Monte SS was when I traveled Interstate 81 alot back then. I saw those Trooper SS's doing some serious rolling out on the roads. My point to this whole ramble is back then someone knew how to build the this particular 200R4 because it has over 100,000 miles on it and it reminds me still over the turbo 400's that sat in some of my other cars

[Bob Moore]

This is all good info

[MDC]

Please keep posting

I have owned two Monte Carlo SS's, an '84 w/ TH350 and an '87 w/ 700R4.
The '84 acted as pound41 describes his '85 w/ 200R4 and would smoke any 'stang GT, Z28, T/A or the like (until the 'stang LX's arrived in '88) and believe it or don't, it ran heads up with an '85 vette for 1/8 mile.
The '87 was a POS and would barely get out of it's own way compared to the '84.
The reason I say all of this is that I have heard and someone posted the
200R4 is very similar to the TH350 except it adds the OD. I was thinking that was the direction I wanted to go.

[hoser]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

I have the 700-R4 and never had to manually shift it. I bought the torque lock up from B&M shifter for it and added a toggle switch to keep it out if just riding around town and then flip it on for highway use. It has worked fine. It automatically locks up at 45mph and unlocks under 45 with it on and nothing with it off.

You dont really need a "kit" or a switch to do that however this mod makes it loc at about 36 mph, it shifts like a 5 speed http://12.215.122.222/700R4.htm

You will probably want to add a switch to the brake like the factory setup.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by hoser

You dont really need a "kit" or a switch to do that however this mod makes it loc at about 36 mph, it shifts like a 5 speed http://12.215.122.222/700R4.htm

You will probably want to add a switch to the brake like the factory setup.

You do not want a 700R4 to lock up that early, unless he is talking about 3rd gear lock-up. OD locking up that early will shorten the life of the tranny. It will constantly be "searching" between OD lock-up/4th gear or OD to 3rd gear. They aren't supposed to lock up before 45 mph for a reason.

IT IS NECESSARY that you have some sort of brake switch with a lock-up tranny. I learned this the hard way. I had a lock up kit from TCM??? It worked just fine until the day I was going about 55mph (speed limit was 55) and someone pulled out in front of me from a side road. The sudden braking with the TQ locked up stalled the engine and I no longer had brakes. Thank God there was a wide shoulder, but with the truck not running my power brakes were useless and it took forever to stop the truck. I will be ordering bowtie overdrives tranny lock up kit and tv kit when I get my new tranny. (which burned up from the TV cable being improperly adjusted and NO external cooler).

[Andy4639]

I have never thought of it, but I have had the motor shut off before when something like that happens and always wonder why. Thanks I may check into that to see what I have to do to make it work. Thanks 67ChevyRedneck

[67ChevyRedneck]

Go to bowtieoverdrives.com. They have different TV cable kits for many different carbs (edelbrock, holly, q-jet...) and the kit is only 75 bucks and is supposedly very easy to install. The lock up kit is about the same price and is supposed to be just as easy to install. It does come with a brake switch. I've heard they have very good tech support. It will be a couple more months before I order my stuff, but that's what I plan on getting. I'll also be adding an external tranny cooler.

A lot of people will piss and moan that 700R4's are junk, but I'll bet a large percentage of the ones that went to crap on someone early were rebuilt improperly, or set up incorrectly.

[Andy4639]

I have both the inside cooler and a external cooler on mine. I have had no trouble out of it. Like I have said before I drive this truck everyday too. It's my work truck.
I wonder if I put a stop light switch in line with my toggle it would cut off everytime I hit the brakes right, and then come back in when I let off of them. Huh, may have to think on it awhile to be sure. Thanks again.

[hoser]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

You do not want a 700R4 to lock up that early, unless he is talking about 3rd gear lock-up. OD locking up that early will shorten the life of the tranny. It will constantly be "searching" between OD lock-up/4th gear or OD to 3rd gear. They aren't supposed to lock up before 45 mph for a reason.

IT IS NECESSARY that you have some sort of brake switch with a lock-up tranny. I learned this the hard way. I had a lock up kit from TCM??? It worked just fine until the day I was going about 55mph (speed limit was 55) and someone pulled out in front of me from a side road. The sudden braking with the TQ locked up stalled the engine and I no longer had brakes. Thank God there was a wide shoulder, but with the truck not running my power brakes were useless and it took forever to stop the truck. I will be ordering bowtie overdrives tranny lock up kit and tv kit when I get my new tranny. (which burned up from the TV cable being improperly adjusted and NO external cooler).

Yup you could be right but I put over 110k miles with that setup in my Blazer 3:08 gears 6.2 diesel and it was working perfect when I pulled the trans and put it under my bench (kept for spare parts), I pulled the pan to get that ball out you see in the pics so I could put it in the trans I put in my 72 GMC truck, so far so good... That trans came out of my 86 Suburban and has 190k trouble free miles on it.

On a side note I removed the ball once during a filter change just to see what affect it might have (blazer came with the ball installed), lost 4 mpg with it removed, I checked the MPG over 4k miles so I put it back in... I had over 180k miles of MPG history on that Blazer.....

[68Stepbed]

www.gearstartransmission.com I really can't decide which way to go. I'm leaning torward the 2004R for the ease of installation. The guy that built the 2004R in my dad's 87 MCSS said the 200 IS a better tranny than the 700, IF BUILT WITH THE RIGHT PARTS!
GM only intended the 2004R to be put behind smaller engines. The 700R4 was more reliable behind bigger engines and was less expensive to build. That's why there are more of them. The 2004R is also a great tranny for BOP engines because of the dual bolt pattern. Most 700's are Chevy only.

They are both great transmissions with the right modifications. As long as you buy from a reputable builder, you won't go wrong either way.

The debate between these two tranny's will probably be like Edelbrock vs. Holley debates. It may never end.

[smokekiki]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

I have never thought of it, but I have had the motor shut off before when something like that happens and always wonder why. Thanks I may check into that to see what I have to do to make it work. Thanks 67ChevyRedneck

Here is a link with part numbers and diagram to add a brake switch.
http://www.smokemup.com/tech/700r4.php

[5150]

If I go with the 700r4 what's the average cost on having the driveshaft shrunk?

That may be my deciding factor.

[67ChevyRedneck]

I took mine to a machine shop and the guy only charged me $15. It only took him like 10 minutes. He was a small time local guy.... look up machine shops in the yellow pages in your area and call around. (that's how I found that guy so cheap.)

[Longhorn Man]

What ever you do, make absoluty sure you get the shaft(s) ballanced,a nd let them know it is for an overdrive aplication.

[79blazer]

Originally Posted by hoser

On a side note I removed the ball once during a filter change just to see what affect it might have (blazer came with the ball installed), lost 4 mpg with it removed, I checked the MPG over 4k miles so I put it back in... I had over 180k miles of MPG history on that Blazer.....

what ball?

[texanidiot25]

Just gotta say, the 700R4 in my Firebird out lasted the motor, 275k original miles.

I found that with 3.23 gears (if I recall right) it shifted like so:
1st- 40 mph
2nd- 70 mph
3rd- 105 mph
4th- 105 plus, but it struggled past that in 4th.
Cruising at 75 mph was about 2200 RPM I think.

The drop into 2nd gear was from 5500/6000 rpm to 3000~ RPM, which kept the car in it's torque curve. That short 1st gear made it feel like it had some balls for a little while, but it did fall off the ball in 2nd and third... But that motor was a crap tastic 3.1L V6 with 275k miles on it too.

The gear ratios of the 700 is the same as the 4L60E in my parent's 98 GMC Jimmy, with about the exact same shift points, and that little truck ain't lazy with more V8 levels of torque.

I'll probably end up tossing in a 700R4 in mine, we have on in storage. The short 1st gear with my 4.10ish gears will pull a house, but still cruise nicely on the freeway (only way to get anywhere where I live). Might be interesting as it already melts tires through 1st and barks them into 2nd with the TH350