Any benefit to non-ethanol gas?

[OUbesto]

I have a '70 C10, 402, HEI, Th400 I drive as a weekender. I have access to non-ethanol, 91 octane gas (+ .65$/ gal) that I started using last year. Is there any benefit? The premium price / gal isn't a big issue since I drive so little miles. Any thoughts?

[54blackhornet]

Big big difference ! I use it in all my vehicles that sit for any length of time. Not necessarily needed in modern stuff but absolutely in older ones.

[truckster]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it attracts moisture. If your truck doesn't get driven a lot, moisture can collect in your tank. Ethanol is also corrosive to older fuel system components, particularly the rubber ones.

[kazoocruiser]

Do you know what compression ratio your engine is running?

Can you supply some information about thermostat opening temperature, and whether you have a working EGR system?

Can you indicate how much timing advance you are currently running?

[toolboxchev]

If your driving it daily and your engine does not need the octane then the costs do not justify the ends.

Been driving mine for over 10 years on ethanol, no issues except it's junk.

[68Gold/white]

ANY time you can buy NON ethanol gas for ANY vehicle, it is a better fuel, for the above reasons.

The stuff attacks ALL rubber parts in a fuel system, ruins the insides of carburetors, especially the rubber parts. Cliff sells ethanol compatible parts for Quadrajets, so that folks that have no choice in what type of gas they are able to buy and can run a quadrajet.

Avoid ethanol fuels if at all possible. It is thought that most fuels could possibly have some ethanol in them, because of how the fuel is transported in trucks and stored in tanks at stations...

If you have a carbureted engine, NEVER use ethanol gas in it, EVER!!!

CLiff makes his ethanol resistant parts, and Holley makes parts for their carbs that are ethanol resistant...FYI

Of course you can buy carburetors made to run E85 in them, but that is NOT what I am talking about...

[special-K]

The question I ask is, "What is the benefit of ethanol?"

The only problem with never running ethanol in any older vehicle is some states only sell ethanol, no option. I live in such a place. The two closest places to buy gasoline are almost an hour away.

[68Gold/white]

The initial reason for E-10 was to lessen the need for foreign oil. This was before we learned how to get to the oil reserves we have, including shales, and tar sands, also the lesser desirable types of crude oil that can still be used, but cost more to refine. Ethanol gas was also supposed to be cleaner. Not everyone agrees on that part of it...

I mentioned that Holley and Cliff sell parts to help stem the tide of problems with ethanol gas in a carb'd engine.

[Bigdav160]

Originally Posted by 68Gold/white

The initial reason for E-10 was to lessen the need for foreign oil.

I seem to remember, at the time, California was suing the EPA (plus oil companies) over the MTBE mandate. Along came Hurricane Katrina /Rita with a shutdown of a lot of gasoline production near the gulf of mexico. Very expensive gasoline and plenty of commodity speculation resulted.

Congress struck a deal to eliminate MTBE and replace it with ethanol. Of course selling the idea that it would help with energy independence.

[KQQL IT]

This is my ethanol experience. Holley blue pump truck is parked 3/4 weeks at a time.

[special-K]

Ethanol isn't better for the environment, if that's what they mean by "cleaner". It makes less power and lowers fuel economy. This goes against the efforts to be producing more efficient engines. More pedal to go same speed and more fuel to go same miles are big backwards steps. The only go it does is help the repair, parts, towing, businesses with all the problems it creates.

A negative is it helped the cost of livestock feed go up. Remember the corn burner stoves that were coming on? Cheap fuel because it was what we feed our livestock and easy to produce plenty. Then came ethanol and that ruined all that.

[Steeveedee]

From Scientific American:

"Ethanol has been promoted as a ‘green’ fuel because its combustion tends to produce lower emissions of carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons and NOx than petrol"

Same article:

"Running vehicles on ethanol rather than petrol can increase ground-level ozone pollution, according to a study of fuel use in São Paulo, Brazil."

End result is which pollutants you prefer, I guess.

The article-

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...on/?redirect=1

[72c20customcamper]

I use non ethanol in all my old cars and in all my yard equipment. Been doing it for 4 or 5 years now and I no longer have problems with carbs and such. I can even leave fuel in the log splitter over the winter and it starts right up in spring.

MTBE was banned because if the gas station tanks leaked it was poisoning the ground. Worked in a gas station late 70s where they had to take all the dirt and run it through a portable incinerator to get that crap out. Now they just let the dirt sit exposed to the air and everything evaporates out.

The only people that ethonal helps is the corn industry. I seem to remember that it takes about 10 gallons of water to make one gallon on ethanol for fermentation and distilling just like whiskey but at least we can drink whiskey

[Steeveedee]

^ Exactly, about no ethanol. I had to drain my lawn mower and then flush the tank. To cycle the sludge out of the carburetor I gave the thing a snort of ether to get it started and let the new fuel clean it up. It's working OK, again. I'll drain it out, next time.

[MySons68C20]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

I use non ethanol in all my old cars and in all my yard equipment. Been doing it for 4 or 5 years now and I no longer have problems with carbs and such. I can even leave fuel in the log splitter over the winter and it starts right up in spring.

MTBE was banned because if the gas station tanks leaked it was poisoning the ground. Worked in a gas station late 70s where they had to take all the dirt and run it through a portable incinerator to get that crap out. Now they just let the dirt sit exposed to the air and everything evaporates out.

The only people that ethonal helps is the corn industry. I seem to remember that it takes about 10 gallons of water to make one gallon on ethanol for fermentation and distilling just like whiskey but at least we can drink whiskey

My exact experience as posted by 72c20....where's my drink?

[mygmctruck1]

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

If your driving it daily and your engine does not need the octane then the costs do not justify the ends.

Been driving mine for over 10 years on ethanol, no issues except it's junk.

Except with higher octane fuel , your gas mileage will go up 2-3 MPH .so the cost difference is offset by the Milage increase.

[rpmerf]

Ethanol is considered green because of carbon emissions. Gasoline takes carbon stored in the earth, and releases it into the atmosphere. This increases the amount of carbon in the atmosphere. Ethanol is made from corn. The corn pulls carbon out of the atmosphere when it grows, then releases it back again when it is burned. In the end, the amount of carbon in the atmosphere should be about the same. In this way, it is carbon neutral. Ethanol is a renewable resource. By mixing it with gasoline, our available gasoline lasts longer. I guess if this seems like a benefit or not depends on how much you believe / care about global warming and / or gas reserves. That said, it would be really nice to have ethanol free gas for those of us that care about what we put in our engines.

I've been running E-10 in everything I own for the last 15 years or so. I only remember having problems a couple times where a small engine sat for long time without the gas drained. All my small engines, I run them dry at the end of the year, and they fire up first pull next year. My truck will sometimes sit months at a time. I pulled the top off the carb last month and it looked good and clean inside.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by rpmerf

By mixing it with gasoline, our available gasoline lasts longer. I guess if this seems like a benefit or not depends on how much you believe / care about global warming and / or gas reserves.

I'll strike that black & white statement down with saying some of us who care about all those things, possibly more than most, fill the grey area with their belief in there being better ways to go about this. And corn was a renewable agricultural resource that is now turned into an oil industry resource. You have to think of the affects of that. And things like the rate corn depletes nutrients in the soil, how much ground required to grow/rotate, all the cleared land sitting bare most of the year causing global warming. For every plus there are negatives. We need to learn to look at both before leaping blindly ahead. That is what caused this whole situation in the first place

[Daaaanz67]

Interesting, how about run ethanol during the season of driving and last tank with out the ethanol as the truck sits during storage problem solved? Just wondering.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by special-K

I'll strike that black & white statement down with saying some of us who care about all those things, possibly more than most, fill the grey area with their belief in there being better ways to go about this. And corn was a renewable agricultural resource that is now turned into an oil industry resource. You have to think of the affects of that. And things like the rate corn depletes nutrients in the soil, how much ground required to grow/rotate, all the cleared land sitting bare most of the year causing global warming. For every plus there are negatives. We need to learn to look at both before leaping blindly ahead. That is what caused this whole situation in the first place

Too true!

[engineer_gregh]

I only run non ethanol gas and use Marine Sta-Bil with every fill up but still had to replace the tank. I bought a tank from LMC six or seven years ago and it eventually rusted inside. I'm sure its cheap ass Chinese steel that goes into repop parts. I've just come to the realization that a new tank is required every so often.

[toolboxchev]

Not a benefit to me or the consumer as a whole.

IT KEEPS THE AMERICAN TAX MACHINE RUNNING EXTREMELY WELL!

[truckster]

Originally Posted by mygmctruck1

Except with higher octane fuel , your gas mileage will go up 2-3 MPH .so the cost difference is offset by the Milage increase.

Sorry, that's not at all true. Octane does absolutely nothing to increase fuel economy by itself.

What is true is that higher octane allows you to run a higher compression ratio, as with turbocharging, which may be one component of increasing fuel mileage, but there are many variables to consider when calculating expected fuel mileage gains.

Having said that, I run premium in my Z/28, but that's because the computer will sense the lower octane and retard the ignition timing. Unless your car is designed for premium fuel (read: high compression) you derive absolutely no benefit from running premium.

[mygmctruck1]

Originally Posted by truckster

Sorry, that's not at all true. Octane does absolutely nothing to increase fuel economy by itself.

What is true is that higher octane allows you to run a higher compression ratio, as with turbocharging, which may be one component of increasing fuel mileage, but there are many variables to consider when calculating expected fuel mileage gains.

Having said that, I run premium in my Z/28, but that's because the computer will sense the lower octane and retard the ignition timing. Unless your car is designed for premium fuel (read: high compression) you derive absolutely no benefit from running premium.

Well , I run 93 in my 69 Mach 1 and get 3 miles more per gallon than reg fuel , I also run mid grade in my 2018 GMC and get 2 gpm over reg. Neither are turbo charged and neither are above 9:1 comp ratio.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by mygmctruck1

Well , I run 93 in my 69 Mach 1 and get 3 miles more per gallon than reg fuel , I also run mid grade in my 2018 GMC and get 2 gpm over reg. Neither are turbo charged and neither are above 9:1 comp ratio.

Anecdotal evidence is not science. Organizations from the EPA to Consumer Reports, as well as all major car manufacturers, have debunked this myth repeatedly. Here's an example:

https://www.consumerreports.org/fuel...d-premium-gas/

The fact is that, regardless of the increase in octane (which is simply resistance to detonation), a gallon of ethanol contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline.

I don't have any beef with whatever grade of fuel makes you happy. But the question was about the benefits of non-ethanol vs ethanol-added gasoline, and the facts are well-established.