LS3 or LS1, Carb or EFI, 6spd MT or 700R4?

[a1960apache]

I am building a 66 shortbed that I plan to drive a lot and put in a few shows. I started looking at used LS1, LS3 with trans and not sure what exactly I would be getting and what I would need to still buy. Then I have been looking at a new LS3 with AT. I also looked at rebuilt motors and trans and wonder how much I would really save in the long run as far as the life of the motor/trans since I plan to keep it a long time, plus all the unknowns of what I would still need to buy. I have been reading as many post's on the subject and just seem to get a headache with all the variables!

I am actually leaning towards a rebuilt LS1 long block, upgrade the cam, maybe put a FAST or Holley EFI, or carb and distributor, and either one with just a 700R4 seems like it would be the cheapest and also something different. I would actually like a 5 or 6 speed MT if the linkage or hydraulics wouldn't be a nightmare.

Anyway, any input based on what route you took and what you would have done different if you could do it all over again.

I kind of like the looks of the orange and green engines with the old style valve covers to look as close to the old, early 55+ V8 with the big black air cleaner. EFI is cool, but I hate all those wires and harnesses, you either have to get rid of them or cover them all up.

Thanks in advance.

[BR3W CITY]

Your scope is a bit too broad for anyone to really be able to give you much technical advice at this point. You've got too many things going different directions, and the approach for many of them will be different.

Lets start from the bottom (insert Drake Meme here);

Whats your budget? Be honest. This is the bottom line to all projects, and budget can make the difference between "what do I need" and "what do I want".

Is there a reason you have been focusing on the Ls1 and Ls3? You have about 9 other engines in the LS family, all of which can be used and most of which can be set to make as much (or more) power. Iron block and aluminum block truck engines are drastically cheaper than the LS1/2/3/6's, as well as more available.

The wiring for these motors is actually quite simple, and if you really really hate wiring, it can be hidden. I hate to see people go through the effort and expense of taking away some of the things that make LS motors great. The EFI system is extremely tuneable, bulletproof, scalable to 1000+hp, and easy to service. The computer controls the o/d transmission as well, which lets a lot of us run steep gears and big cams, yet still be able to cruise down the highway.

If you really want "different", well thats a whole 'nother ballgame. To stand out in the LS swap world, its either gotta be IN a weird vehicle, or going WAY past the norm of design. Every combination of bolt on parts has been done 10-ways in 10 vehicles by now, meaning you've gotta get way outside the box. I haven't seen anyone do a twin-charging setup yet, but thats about it. There are even some open-wheel 30's era guys running twin/triple/quad/sixpack carb setups and weird vintage injection systems.

If you can narrow down some more goals, budget, timeframe etc for us, or let us know more about what you want out of the truck, we can try to help you a bit more. In the meantime, keep on flipping through build threads, try out the "search this forum" function for any quick questions we may have already covered, and don't be afraid to let us know what your thinking.

[a1960apache]

Thanks for the response, I am all over the place but have been doing some reading, $12,169k is my max budget but $6-8k is probably enough for what I need. I am pretty much set on the set up that looks like the one in the Street Rodder pick in orange with the Chevrolet Script valve covers. It also looks like the coils are mounted somewhere low and the wires run under the headers, I would be worried about heat issues. But that looks clean enough but for reliability, the plastic Corvette covers would be fine in flat black.

I would really also prefer a 6 speed MT if it fits in my $6-8k budget or even a 5 speed MT is fine. I see the Wilwood setup and it looks easy enough.

Your right about the motors, I guess I need to read up on that more, I am assuming a long block LQ9 is similar to the LS3 etc, without having to use the huge intake that I keep seeing on the LQ9, which I want to avoid like the one in the pic. Here is one I found and wondered if anyone has dealt with them? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-6-0-LQ...-/251917517395 I would rather spend a bit more for one that has had a quality rebuild so I don't have to take it out later or even the extra for a new long block. Also I think it is worth spending a bit on new A/C compressor, Alternator and a decent looking drive system that doesn't look so bulky as some of the factory stuff so any good ideas or input on that would be great. Holley has a decent system, but really the only brackets that show are the A/C and alternator.

I am also pretty sure I don't need a 430+hp Vette motor without any traction control and little weight over the rear wheels with a shortbed stepside to end up in a ditch ha!! A cool sounding cam and I would be happy if that is possible and the smaller motor would hopefully be better on fuel, not that it is a huge issue or difference, but I plan to drive it a lot and keep it a long time.

So I think finding all this within the $6k budget should be realistic. Can anyone recommend a place to find good rebuilt stuff? I have been looking at Gashufferhotrods.com, but it seems like other than the used stuff, the rebuilt stuff isn't all that much cheaper than an all new. I would rather spend the $12,169 and not be dealing with poor rebuilt stuff or being stranded on the side of the road at 11pm after a car show on a Saturday Night. But I also don't want to pay for stuff I won't use like intake, exhaust, computer stuff! I see a lot of swaps using a used take out engine, and then having to spend money on a Holley type computer, drive pulleys and brackets and headers etc if that makes sense. So maybe buying a long block LQ4 etc and just adding what I need might be a good route.

[MalibuSSwagon]

Most people do utilize used takeouts from wrecked or rotted trucks. In my case I bought a wrecked and rotted Silverado for $800, has a 5.3L with 148k miles and runs perfect, to use as a donor. With these LS engines they go for 300k miles or more and usually in the rustbelt they outlast the trucks themselves.

Check out Justchevytrucks, they are in my area and offer good deals on ready to run takeouts.

[boostedc10]

If you are looking at an LQ4, try looking for one that is 2004.5 and up. These motors have the better rods in them.

Second I wouldnt spend much time looking for a rebuilt motor. The LQ4 in stock form will run forever and are better if the short block is untouched.

With your budget you have some wiggle room for sure. The car intakes can be swapped on the truck motors but require a water pump and pulley change, but that is cheap enough.

[a1960apache]

Originally Posted by MalibuSSwagon

Most people do utilize used takeouts from wrecked or rotted trucks. In my case I bought a wrecked and rotted Silverado for $800, has a 5.3L with 148k miles and runs perfect, to use as a donor. With these LS engines they go for 300k miles or more and usually in the rustbelt they outlast the trucks themselves.

Check out Justchevytrucks, they are in my area and offer good deals on ready to run takeouts.

Thanks, for those prices I can put money into a cam, intake and nicer accessory drive stuff.

I get it now, the engines were built with everything brand new, with a very clean environment and high quality control standards. I have seen some pretty nasty machine shops.

What is the main difference between a LR4 or LM7, and an LS1, other than size, iron block etc? A drop out combo seems pretty decent and there are some good engine/trans computer and controllers that are reasonable and would make an easy swap.

[boostedc10]

Google is your friend. Below is a link to help you with some basics

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_small-block_engine

Most aftermarket ecm's will work on any ls with a few exceptions.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by a1960apache

Thanks for the response, I am all over the place but have been doing some reading, $12,169k is my max budget but $6-8k is probably enough for what I need. I am pretty much set on the set up that looks like the one in the Street Rodder pick in orange with the Chevrolet Script valve covers. It also looks like the coils are mounted somewhere low and the wires run under the headers, I would be worried about heat issues. But that looks clean enough but for reliability, the plastic Corvette covers would be fine in flat black.

I'd have to check closer, but there are two ways you can get that look. Either move the coils to a low mount bracket (tucks coils down and back) and use the scripted covers OR do what another member here did, and get a tall-rocker valve cover and semi-hollow it out as a coil-cover that looks like a valve cover.

I would really also prefer a 6 speed MT if it fits in my $6-8k budget or even a 5 speed MT is fine. I see the Wilwood setup and it looks easy enough.

With your budget, I'd say a t56 is well within reach, unless you really want to boss-up for something like a tko600 (which would be half the budget).

I am assuming a long block LQ9 is similar to the LS3 etc, without having to use the huge intake that I keep seeing on the LQ9, which I want to avoid like the one in the pic.

Most of the 6.0+ truck engines are iron block, but for all intensive purposes, yes they are similar. All of the GenIII intakes will fit the others, and all of the GenIV intakes will fit their others, respectively. Depending which exact combo you pick, there are a couple other changes like water pump outlet that need to be made...but the short answer is YES, you can run one of the car-style or any of the aftermarket manifolds.


I would rather spend a bit more for one that has had a quality rebuild so I don't have to take it out later or even the extra for a new long block.

This is something that many people who've never attempted a hot-rod swap before think, but very rarely is the logic proven right. The majority of pullout engines are great value for the money, especially when you can get a whole donor vehicle (including wiring, DBW stuff, etc) for a low price and have a factory-built reference at your fingertips. Most of us end up voluntarily rebuilding our motors well-well before anything fails. Some members here have daily driven LS trucks with more than 300k on them, others have put 300k mile motors INTO their swap vehicles. With some simple things like timing chain, oil pump, and maintenance, they really do run forever.

Also I think it is worth spending a bit on new A/C compressor, Alternator and a decent looking drive system that doesn't look so bulky as some of the factory stuff so any good ideas or input on that would be great.

95% of alternators are used. Even on a brand-new car, there is a chance your factory alternator is in a rebuilt case. Getting a quality parts-store rebuilt unit with a warranty is the best bet. As for the A/C compressor, I've got no problems with the o.e. ones, but quality wise you can get them with warranties just like the alternators. IMO its worth a few $$ on the evap and lines so you won't be chasing down leaks and losing $ on refrig charge.


I am also pretty sure I don't need a 430+hp Vette motor without any traction control and little weight over the rear wheels with a shortbed stepside to end up in a ditch ha!! A cool sounding cam and I would be happy if that is possible and the smaller motor would hopefully be better on fuel, not that it is a huge issue or difference, but I plan to drive it a lot and keep it a long time.

Heck I'm making about that now, in a shortbed with no traction control, touchy hydroboost brakes, and lap belts only. NEED is a weird word, none of us NEED a 50 year old truck...might as well WANT to make lots of power. No matter what engine you choose, a mild cam with a lower LSA will let you get the sound you want and a few more ponies, without any real change in the driving feel. 14-16 city and 17-22hwy is hard to beat in a v8 truck


So I think finding all this within the $6k budget should be realistic. Can anyone recommend a place to find good rebuilt stuff?

Every "rebuilt" motor is pretty much a scam, unless your actually getting a performance built engine. Most of these places aren't even opening up the bottom end, they just inspect them and replace the easy-to-reach top end wear parts, and some stuff like the oil pump. They take their chances by giving you a warranty and knowing damn-well that the stock bottom end isn't gonna self destruct, and they'll never have to honor the warranty. Its hard enough to get a dealer to warranty stuff, good luck with an engine rebuilder that isn't Jasper (the largest engine rebuilder around, but only stock and fleet stuff). If you use car-part.com you can view listings from local auto yards to see what take out engines in your area go for. My engine came from a "junkyard" but what cataloged, drained, capped, and stored in a climate controled warehouse. There are all kinds of auto recyclers out there.

I see a lot of swaps using a used take out engine, and then having to spend money on a Holley type computer, drive pulleys and brackets and headers etc if that makes sense. So maybe buying a long block LQ4 etc and just adding what I need might be a good route.

But you don't need to spend $ on that stuff, unless you plan the build that way. You'll end up buying headers either way. You'll probably end up spending as much or more for "reman" longblock LS as you will for the entire takeout, and still end up peicing together certain aspects of the swap.

I've got some comments in bold above. The only thing I'll add, is that some of your plans are anti-bang-for-buck, and I fear that you'll actually end up spending more while trying to spend less. Things like reman blocks, aftermarket efi systems, and pulley kits are some of the most individually expensive items...and a swap can be done to make more power, just as reliably, and probably cheaper.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and if those parts are important to the look/feel you want, don't let us stop you. Just understand that the factory EFI system is good, and these engines are pretty dang reliable. You can do a lot more with your budget if you make certain concessions here or there.

[a1960apache]

Thanks for all the input, a takeout is probably the best route, an LR4 and 4L60E is enough power, realistically I probably won't put 50,000 miles in the next 5 years and by then will probably put something else in. I am also guessing pulling a valve cover would tell a lot. I have always used good oil and probably changed it too often but have pulled valve coves off after 140k and everything was clear of any gunk or buildup so the new motors are better engineered so 300k plus is realistic.

Thanks for the car-part.com link, I will check that out.

[boostedc10]

Br3w where did you get your information regarding alternators? I can tell you for a fact that the stock units from the O.E. are not in refurbished cases.

The reason i know this is because I was at the delco and bosch manufacturing facilities and by law an O.E. cannot use them in a "New" vehicle.

Just dont want to see incorrect information out there.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by boostedc10

Br3w where did you get your information regarding alternators? I can tell you for a fact that the stock units from the O.E. are not in refurbished cases.

The reason i know this is because I was at the delco and bosch manufacturing facilities and by law an O.E. cannot use them in a "New" vehicle.

Just dont want to see incorrect information out there.

The way it was conveyed to me, was that a recycled case can still be considered "NEW", as long as everything going inside it is actually new. They can internally cycle defects out that way. This is coming from a friend at a 3rd party supplier to Delphi, BUT they deal in contract work for industrial and agricultural GM engines, forklifts etc. Its quite possible that the rules for non-roadgoing engines are drastically more lenient (these aren't even all 12v systems for that matter). They are NOT an O.E for any consumer vehicle or engine.