Suburban A/C fix + Vintage Air?

[swissarmychainsaw]

It kills me a little that Hatzie sent that message while I was charging the beast and did not see it until after!

Boys and girls, here's the report.

65 degrees ambient air temp.
3:45pm
Front Vent temp: 82
Rear: 80
added one can of refrigerant (12oz). At some point during this HOUR I actually read the directions and shook the can, did the 12 to 3 tilt. This speeds things up.

The fans kicked on when they should, the compressor kicked on, everything was looking good. No blown fuses or craziness.

So far so good.



4:32pm
Front Vent temp: 88
Rear: 81 (we closed the windows!)

Added second can. 11.9 oz

4:50pm
Front Vent temp: 64
Rear: 68

Can no. 3 12.05 oz

5:38pm
Front Vent temp: 50
Rear: 52

Now we are cooking with gas!

As a test I put the thermometer in my CAR: 44 degrees coming out of the dash. This was now what I was shooting for.

At this point I slowed down (It was already slow) and measured 1-2 oz at a time, waited 5-10 minutes and compared the vent temps.

As soon as the temp started to stabilize (could not get it to drop further) I stopped.
Temp from the dash was 48 degrees in the front and 49 rear.

Should I be happy with those numbers?

Figure out the way to measure these that makes sens for you!



Honey, Have you seen the kitchen scale?



This was the lowest temp I got out of the front.

[jjzepplin]

I am not a professional but I would be happy with that, especially for not pumping down the highway.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Also here were some pressure readings while running things at the end.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Finally got out to drive the Burban:

Just around the block, looking much better!:


Then to the parts store and a brief stint on the highway:



PARTY PEOPLE we have some REFRIGERATION! 36.5 Degrees indicated!
I'm frankly shocked and amazed!

[SCOTI]

Wow.....

[swissarmychainsaw]

I hope this thread encourages someone to go for it! A big thanks to everyone who pitched in and gave advice, or even just watched on this thread, it helped keep things rolling!

Meanwhile here is a quick summary of what it took to get cold air blowing out of the vents:

First let me say I'm a hobby mechanic. The idea of adding AC to my rig was pretty ambitious if not crazy sounding, considering I knew NOTHING about how AC actually works. I only know a *little more now, but I get how it all goes together now.

The real scary part was there are very few "real mechanics" that would tackle a job like this, so if I gave up along the way there was no "higher authority" I could petition to finish it.

My theory is this: once you 'own' a vehicle of a certain age, you OWN the problems. Very few "professional mechanics" are REAL problem solvers. There is just no money in it. This makes me VERY grateful to this community, for the moral support and technical advice here.

I committed to this project two years ago, and made some pretty good mistakes, which stalled me out considerably. I bought the wrong sized compressor (and bracket) which was not a trivial expense.

Calling "Classic Auto Air" and talking to Mike Oliveras was the best thing I did on this project and he set me straight and helped me size the system and get the parts I needed. In the end I complete this job

Here is a rough cost breakdown:
Salvage Yard
Rear AC Unit, dash switch (and hoses I ended up not using): $150
(I bought some other things so I think this is close)

Classic Auto Air
Compressor
Bracket
D-rings to mount hose
High side, low side hose (35ft?)
Parallel flow condenser
Mounting brackets
All AC line fittings
$1,400

Things we forgot
Trinary switch (summit racing): ~$50

Miscellaneous
Wiring, relays, connectors, crimpers, etc
Refrigerant

Tools
Gauge set & Vacuum pump: $140
ACCrimper: $140
Orifice tool: $15
refrigerant tap: $15
Thermometers: $20

Doing the job yourself and having it work: Priceless

Things I would do differently
Spend time exploring hard line options.
I doing research it seems there are ways to make your own "braze on" hard line AC connectors. Also vintage air has a product called "u-bend-em" which is a hard line connector that seems like it would be great to get through the firewall.

Do more research on charging the system for maximum cold. (turns out after my test run I was ok!)

Other Options
Classic Auto Air and Vintage Air both make "kits" where you can remove all the stock stuff and replace it with all brand new parts (front AC only) for something like $1500. Plug and play, and this is probably a great option.
I don't think anyone makes a dual system kit, so you would still face some of the same challenges: What size compressor, how to run lines to the rear, and what rear unit will fit and not look terrible (why I went with stock).

So of course the expense rarely makes sense considering you can buy a suburban for the cost of my AC System!

...THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by swissarmychainsaw

I hope this thread encourages someone to go for it! A big thanks to everyone who pitched in and gave advice, or even just watched on this thread, it helped keep things rolling!

Meanwhile here is a quick summary of what it took to get cold air blowing out of the vents:

First let me say I'm a hobby mechanic. The idea of adding AC to my rig was pretty ambitious if not crazy sounding, considering I knew NOTHING about how AC actually works. I only know a *little more now, but I get how it all goes together now.

The real scary part was there are very few "real mechanics" that would tackle a job like this, so if I gave up along the way there was no "higher authority" I could petition to finish it.

My theory is this: once you 'own' a vehicle of a certain age, you OWN the problems. Very few "professional mechanics" are REAL problem solvers. There is just no money in it. This makes me VERY grateful to this community, for the moral support and technical advice here.

I committed to this project two years ago, and made some pretty good mistakes, which stalled me out considerably. I bought the wrong sized compressor (and bracket) which was not a trivial expense.

Calling "Classic Auto Air" and talking to Mike Oliveras was the best thing I did on this project and he set me straight and helped me size the system and get the parts I needed. In the end I complete this job

Here is a rough cost breakdown:
Salvage Yard
Rear AC Unit, dash switch (and hoses I ended up not using): $150
(I bought some other things so I think this is close)

Classic Auto Air
Compressor
Bracket
D-rings to mount hose
High side, low side hose (35ft?)
Parallel flow condenser
Mounting brackets
All AC line fittings
$1,400

Things we forgot
Trinary switch (summit racing): ~$50

Miscellaneous
Wiring, relays, connectors, crimpers, etc
Refrigerant

Tools
Gauge set & Vacuum pump: $140
ACCrimper: $140
Orifice tool: $15
refrigerant tap: $15
Thermometers: $20

Doing the job yourself and having it work: Priceless

Things I would do differently
Spend time exploring hard line options.
I doing research it seems there are ways to make your own "braze on" hard line AC connectors. Also vintage air has a product called "u-bend-em" which is a hard line connector that seems like it would be great to get through the firewall.

Do more research on charging the system for maximum cold. (turns out after my test run I was ok!)

Other Options
Classic Auto Air and Vintage Air both make "kits" where you can remove all the stock stuff and replace it with all brand new parts (front AC only) for something like $1500. Plug and play, and this is probably a great option.
I don't think anyone makes a dual system kit, so you would still face some of the same challenges: What size compressor, how to run lines to the rear, and what rear unit will fit and not look terrible (why I went with stock).

So of course the expense rarely makes sense considering you can buy a suburban for the cost of my AC System!

...THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE.

Solid, logical feedback.

I went through the a/c when building my Dually. I did the parallel flow condenser to help w/the 134 refrigerant. New hoses. Then relied on local shop/dealership guys to get it leak tested & correctly charged. I've never got it to work correctly.

It would blow cold (well, cool) sitting @ idle. As soon as you start driving? It shuts off. My guess is head pressure but I couldn't get anyone w/the equipment to keep @ it like what you went through. Congrats on a job well done.

[v30crewcab]

I have cold a/c on my crewcab, but I put a 10" fan on the front of the condenser so it stays cold while sitting in traffic. gotta keep air moving across the front.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by v30crewcab

I have cold a/c on my crewcab, but I put a 10" fan on the front of the condenser so it stays cold while sitting in traffic. gotta keep air moving across the front.

Mine has a functional OE pusher as well. I feel the issue is the volume of oil + refrigerant within the system but seem to not get buy-off from those that charge the system.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Mine has a functional OE pusher as well. I feel the issue is the volume of oil + refrigerant within the system but seem to not get buy-off from those that charge the system.

You can rent the gauges for free from O'reillys, and find out what pressure you have..

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...+gauges&pos=19

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Mine has a functional OE pusher as well. I feel the issue is the volume of oil + refrigerant within the system but seem to not get buy-off from those that charge the system.

They'll never tell you that.
That would be admitting they screwed up and didn't clean the old oil out of the system thereby ovrefilling with oil.

[jjzepplin]

Congratulations! There may be others but I bet they are not 36 degrees inside! May you enjoy this AC for a long time sir!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

Congratulations! There may be others but I bet they are not 36 degrees inside! May you enjoy this AC for a long time sir!

x2!

[Hubscrub]

Awsome, well done I've been waiting for the results.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Tomorrow I take this beast on a 9 hour road trip to do some *Wheelin' in the desert. Supposed to be mid to high 90s the whole week.
THAT is going to be a good test!

I've only taken it on a couple of short road tests, but so far so good. Wish me luck, I'll check back in, in about a week!

[SBTork]

Originally Posted by swissarmychainsaw

Tomorrow I take this beast on a 9 hour road trip to do some *Wheelin' in the desert. Supposed to be mid to high 90s the whole week.
THAT is going to be a good test!

I've only taken it on a couple of short road tests, but so far so good. Wish me luck, I'll check back in, in about a week!

That'll be a perfect test, awesome job! You've inspired me to tackle A/C fixing on my '85 Suburban.

[jjzepplin]

Good luck! May the cool be with you!

[BlueJeep]

So how did the trip turn out? A/C perform as expected? Thanks!

[swissarmychainsaw]

I think it is the lowest recorded temp, but it does not tell the whole story.


Trip was great, we had an Adventure for sure.
AC worked as expected. In 100 degree temps, you have to be moving pretty good to keep the cabin cool. Since we were off roading, I ending up turning it off and rolled the windows down for the really slow stuff.

We climbed a goat path to get to the top!






Then about two miles from the road:


How many plys did YOU buy?



THEN when towing the potties back (full and stinky):



This is what you get for using an "old tire" for your spare!

Shredded!


Luckily my buddy was around and we towed the flat to a tire store.



Gorgeous though!


Turns out that 15" tires are not very popular.
This place had some used tires, and I got one, to get the truck on the road, then went back and hooked up the other so I'd have a spare...


Back on the road


Sooo... to answer your question, yes the AC WORKED as expected!
Here we are cruising past Sacramento, and it was hot there!


Got home and made the investment (8 ply Toyos):


I need to sort out some duct work (some of the under dash tubes are not installed correctly or something, but all it, I'm pretty happy with this thing.

Smells like...victory!

[jjzepplin]

Congratulations! Sounds like it is working great! I had 10 ply Super Swampers on my Blazer. Thing drove like it was on rails and the wear was actually pretty good. It took hitting a car at 50mph to knock one off the rim. Seated right back up though. Car was not as fortunate. Blazer either.

[BlueJeep]

Fantastic on the air, not so great on the tires but at least you have it fixed and ready for next time! I have Nittos on my Jeep, very happy with them.

[BlueJeep]

So back to the air, why did you replace the hard lines going to the rear air unit? Were they unknown condition and the new rubber lines were known? I'm trying to figure out where to start with my system. It's a new-to-me suburban and the air doesn't work. Has never been converted over from R12 and is all stock with rear air too.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

So back to the air, why did you replace the hard lines going to the rear air unit? Were they unknown condition and the new rubber lines were known? I'm trying to figure out where to start with my system. It's a new-to-me suburban and the air doesn't work. Has never been converted over from R12 and is all stock with rear air too.

I did this based on the advice from the AC guy I bought the stuff from at "Classic Auto Air". He said the original stuff is rubber and will fail *eventually with R134a. Also remember that I was *adding the rear unit.
But if I had a rear unit in there already, I would be really tempted to not replace the lines until they failed.

For me, I wanted to maximize for success, and so far following good advice has done that.
C'om by, bring some beers and lets get you sorted!

[BlueJeep]

Originally Posted by swissarmychainsaw

I did this based on the advice from the AC guy I bought the stuff from at "Classic Auto Air". He said the original stuff is rubber and will fail *eventually with R134a. Also remember that I was *adding the rear unit.
But if I had a rear unit in there already, I would be really tempted to not replace the lines until they failed.

For me, I wanted to maximize for success, and so far following good advice has done that.
C'om by, bring some beers and lets get you sorted!

That would be great, but I'm afraid that the beers would be warm after a 26 hour drive with no A/C!!

Yeah, that makes sense. Do you think it would be worthwhile to attempt to change all the orings proactively before starting in?

[hatzie]

If you open the system or you're changing refrigerants you should replace the accumulator/drier.
It gets loaded with moisture pretty quickly and it will have some of the old refrigerant oil charge trapped inside as well.