pop goes the weasal.....fix

[mongocanfly]

I need some advice from the gurus....
I'm currently body working my doors and found this today.....the door panel has a few depressions. ..you can see from the pic the guide coat shows 4-5 shallow spots...on the lower depression where the blue tape is, if I put thumb pressure on those spots the panel pops....a lot louder on the left than the right...I checked all the low spots with a straight edge and there's not much of a depression except for the lower one, its about .040-.050 ...what do I need to do to this panel.....I assume more than just slabbing filler all over it...

[mongocanfly]

I watched a few videos that used a torch and wet rag to stop the pop...is this the best way or is there a more better way?

[B. W.]

Before trying heat, push the low spot out from inside the door using something with soft edges. Use a slapping spoon on the high spots around the perimeter of the low spot. You may be able to remove the oil canning on some or all of you low spots without having to heat.

I'm fighting the same issue on my roof but I can't access the inside. I'm pulling up with a suction cup or using a welded stud then slappin' away. I have had success with a couple of large oil can dents this way. (still have more than a few to go, looks like cows walked on my roof!)

[mongocanfly]

haha...mines not cow bad....yet...my problem is I can't get any tools inside the door to that area....its got a impact brace right in the way....whatever I do will have to be done on the outside..

[MP&C]

Greg, how about inflating a football inside the door at the low areas while you use a slapper on the high "crease" surrounding them..

[mongocanfly]

that's a great idea Robert. ...ill have to see if that might work....I still think the impact brace may be in the way though....about half of that spot is behind it...

[MARTINSR]

I can't say enough, the torch is the LAST choice, you can do a lot more damage than fixing.

A shrinking disc, that is a whole different thing, the shrinking disc can let you heat the hi spots like a "hit block" and shrink JUST the high spots, it is a magic tool.

But first try why BW and Robert have said. A dent that is "oil canning" is doing this because of two things, one it really does have some stretched metal, which shrinking is typically needed to correct. Or it has a "brow" around the edges that is bent up and not allowing the low spot to maintain shape when pushed into place. So around the low is high. often you can feel these as they are a "lump" going up.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

"Basics of Basics" How to feel your bodywork
By Brian Martin


The skill of feeling your body work, or even feeling the panel before you start, is a part of the repair just as much as the blocking with sandpaper. If you don't feel it properly, how good is the blocking you are doing? If you can't feel a high spot, how are you going to remove it?

I have seen (every day) guys feeling bodywork like in photo number 1. I can't grasp how in the world you can feel anything this way, other than a tiny flaw. Don't do this, ever. If someone has somehow dug out the skills to do it this way and they do good work, more power to them, but learn to feel it standing up rubbing it in a long flat motion.

Photo number 2 shows how I use my hand to feel from my fingertip to the bottom of my palm. If you run your hand over a low or high spot using your whole hand you feel it much better. It's like using a longer straight edge, a straight edge that's two inches long isn't going to work as good as one 7 or 8 inches long right?

Photos 3 and 4 show you how to feel a dent: standing to the side and sliding my hand over the area from end to end.

If you wanted to see high or low spots in a panel you would look "down" it like photo number 5 right? That is how you need to feel it too! Your eyes and your hands work together, as long as you don't "see what you want to see" because then you will "feel what you want to feel" which is another part of feeling your work.

When you feel your work you have to WANT to find an error. If you don't want to find one, you won't. It's just how our brains work. Use it to your advantage with your wife, look for the good stuff and that is all you will see. That isn't a joke; that is a life lesson. But with your bodywork you have to WANT to find something, you have to be thrilled to find something. If you are, you will, and you will correct it before it's too late. If you don't want to find something, you won't, and you will be sanding off primer and re-filling it with body filler. OR you will be expecting your primer to do more than you should. You don't want to ask your primer to do more than it can, that is a recipe for disaster on many levels. Your primer is just to fill scratches, and extremely mild imperfections. The more you correct before you prime, the better.

On that note, don't even think of leaving your body filler in anything coarser than 120-grit paper. That is the very, very coarsest paper you would ever want to leave filler in, I go to 180 most every time. This is for a few different reasons, one being the primer isn't asked to do too much. But on the subject of feeling your work, the finer the paper the better you can feel highs and lows. The coarse paper leaves scratches that camouflage flaws in the filler! You could be rubbing your hand over a high or low spot and not feel it because of the scratches. Where with the fine sandpaper it's more like feeling a painted surface. This also goes for how you see it too, if it's sanded with finer paper you can see the flaws easier than if it was sanded with coarse paper. This doesn't mean you only sand your filler with 180-- for that info you need to read the "Basics of Basics" on Body filler.

Now change how you feel your work, and go out and find some flaws to fix and make your body work better!

[Jcfcamaro]

I'm a first timer body worker here so take my thoughts with a grain if salt. I replaced a piece of the floor pan on the drivers side where it's flat. Everything went great until I got it all finished. It's was popping up and down with very little pressure. I knew with your feet putting pressure down on the floor it was a big problem. Need to mention that I purchased a stud gun that came with a shrinking tip so I tried it starting in the outer edge going in a circle towards the middle. It worked great and tightened up the floor pan to be rock solid. But doing this on a door I have no previous experience but would probably work.

[mongocanfly]

thanks B.W. , Robert, and Martin....I think I've got it.....
Martin,,, reading your basic of basics posts has put me to sleep many a night...I've read and reread them many times....always good stuff..
Robert,,,, I've read thru your sandblast damage oil can repair post quite a few times as well....also good stuff....

I managed to get my "football" sized hands inside the door panel and got a buddy to work on the hammer end....I put pressure in the low spots as best I could and he hammered around the ring of the low spots..it actually didn't take much to get the bottom spot and that got rid of the pops...but it also created some new ones higher up the door....we kinda chased them around till it got pretty good....my straight edge shows it shouldn't take but a thin coat of filler so I went ahead and skim coated the whole door panel...will be next week before I can get back on it....
again thanks for all yalls help....I've said it before but I'm no bodyman but I like doing this stuff myself if possible....

it may not look to professional as my buddy got a little happy with his hammer work but its not as bad as it may look in this pic.... (I couldn't see what he was doing when I had my hands in the door)....

jcf thanks for the comment...I saw where Robert used a shrinking tip but I don't have one of those...

[MARTINSR]

The problem with the stud gun shrinker is it puts a LOT or pressure right where the heat is and it will push in the metal making a dent! If it's near the edge of a panel or a hard body line it is a damn useful little tool, but out in the middle of a panel, wow can that sucker cause more damage!


I can't preach more about the shrinking disc! I got one and didn't know jack and did some amazing stuff with my first tries with it. It is basically like running a block over the bondo, it cuts the high spots only. The shrinking disc heats the high spots only. You in fact hit up the low spots without even trying to make them perfect, you just hit them up high and run the disc over it, now those are flat, then you hit up the other low spots and run the disc and now those spots are flat, it's friggin amazing! I just simplified it but that is basically what it is doing and how you use it.

Brian

[mongocanfly]

thanks Martin...I think ill order me one...a little late for this door...in spite of the obvious hammer marks ,I was amazed at how flat it got.....on the discs ,what would you recommend...a small one or one of the larger ones...obviously I know both would have limitations..but if you only had one which would it be?

[MARTINSR]

I have the biggest they make and I say it's pretty damn versatile.


Brian

[mongocanfly]

thanks Martin...ill get one ordered...

[B. W.]

I just want to back Martin up on the stud gun shrinking tip. I have one & use it a lot. Works great if you over pull a stud. Works great on flat panels. Anything with a curve it will sink in so fast it makes your heart stop!

Have a large shrinking disk also, works great, like it a lot.

[dracko]

One more vote for the shrinking disc....they really do work. And if I can have success using one to remove small dents and oil canning from overzealous welding, then anyone can.

[mongocanfly]

yall got me convinced...I got a 9" ordered and on the way....