The "In over my head" build thread

[SeventyOne]

Originally Posted by Burt4x4

Get a 454 and
Sucks you got ripped...pleanty of local builders were you live...never had a crate engine before. I almost went with that 383HT but I ended up getting a '74 454 "running when pulled" out of a 2x4 truck and spent the same amount of money getting that rebuilt, balanced and added Edelbrock MPFI. Throttle reponce is amazing and all that torque right off idle is alot of fun too
Good Luck

Can you point me in the direction of some local builders? This is my first resto and my contact list is quite small - could use a referral.

I thought of going 454 but didn't want to deal with the firewall issues.

[mcmlxix]

Do you have part numbers for the front 8 lug conversion?
Did you get the parts from NAPA?

[SeventyOne]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

Do you have part numbers for the front 8 lug conversion?
Did you get the parts from NAPA?

Funny you should ask because I JUST finished assembling the front axle.

Update 11/21. Moving Along...



Man this picture makes the axle look SUPER wide!


Here is what you will need to convert over to 8 lug:

All this can be found on a '77 Chevy 4x4 3/4 Ton (K20) - I went to Napa, Autozone, Kragen, used online vendors, and ebay/craigslist to find all these parts.

• "Big Bearing" Spindles
• Spindle bearing kit (contains spindle bearing, and the 3 seal parts to seal it to the stub shaft)*
• 3/4 ton Brake Caliper Brackets
• Calipers for a '77 4x4 Chevy 3/4 Ton (K20) - I think these are the same as the stock calipers
• 4x4 Hub and Rotor Assembly from a '77 3/4 Ton Chevy (K20)
• Wheel Bearings for a '77 Chevy 3/4 Ton (K20)
• Hub Lockouts (Original, Warns, etc - all fit just like on the 6-lug)
• Spindle nuts/washer from original "Small Bearing" Spindles fit
• Wheel/Hub Seals**
• A tub of wheel bearing grease

*See http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=335976&page=2 for pics and torque specs.
**When I bought the wheel bearings they came with wheel/Hub seals. Turns out they didn't fit because apparently there were two different styles of hub and hub seal in '77 (early and late design). If you search Napa's website for "Wheel Seal" for '77 K20 there will be two that come up - I needed the one without the flange.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by SeventyOne

• "Big Bearing" Spindles
• Spindle bearing kit (contains spindle bearing, and the 3 seal parts to seal it to the stub shaft)*
• 3/4 ton Brake Caliper Brackets
• Calipers for a '77 4x4 Chevy 3/4 Ton (K20) - I think these are the same as the stock calipers
  
• 4x4 Hub and Rotor Assembly from a '77 3/4 Ton Chevy (K20)
• Wheel Bearings for a '77 Chevy 3/4 Ton (K20)
• Hub Lockouts (Original, Warns, etc - all fit just like on the 6-lug)
• Spindle nuts/washer from original "Small Bearing" Spindles fit
• Wheel/Hub Seals**
• A tub of wheel bearing grease

So did you get NEW hubs? I can't find them listed anywhere in the parts store webpages.

[SeventyOne]

Originally Posted by Critter

So did you get NEW hubs? I can't find them listed anywhere in the parts store webpages.

Yes new hubs and rotors. I bought mine from Kragen but I just went and pulled the Napa part numbers for you from the store site:

'77 K20
Rotor only = NB4885677
Hub only = NB4886287
Hub and Rotor assembly = NB4886286

Mine came with the bearing races installed also.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Critter]

Ahh...I see now. I had been searching the websites for a 1973 - Chevy - k20 - "hub" (small bearing) and nothing came up other than bearings and seals. I also searched 1976 randomly just because I have the 76 GMC that's in my signature (also small bearing). If I would have just tried a search for my 78 I would have seen it. Apparently a big bearing is avaialbe but small isn't. I guess I will have to change my spindles as well if I go the new parts route. Thanks for straightening me out.

[SeventyOne]

From what I remember there is a way to run 8 lug on the smaller spindles if you buy different bearings. I don't know the specifics though. I went with the big bearing spindles because they are stronger.

Also, if it matters, I *think* '76 had a changeover partway through the year to the big bearing stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Critter]

Originally Posted by SeventyOne

From what I remember there is a way to run 8 lug on the smaller spindles if you buy different bearings. I don't know the specifics though. I went with the big bearing spindles because they are stronger.

Also, if it matters, I *think* '76 had a changeover partway through the year to the big bearing stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm at the beginning of my research on this subject, but I believe I read somewhere that the small bearing 8 lug setup uses the same spindles as the older 6 lug would. Thats why I was searching for the older/smaller bearing 8 lug hubs hoping I could just put the hub straight on to my original 6 lug spindle...but maybe that's incorrect info.

I was actually aware (surprisingly) of the mid 76 change. I had to get some tie rods or ball joints or something years ago for the GMC and I remember it being a question. Turns out mine is an early version. Thanks again for all your help!

[SeventyOne]

Frame is basically ready to go out to the powdercoater but I have some concerns before I send it.

I will be running a 700r4 and will be moving the engine forward 1 7/8" to accommodate the extra length. I will also be using the DIY crossmember. Should I find the exact location of the crossmember before I send it out for coating? Basically mock up the engine and tranny then tear it down once I know the new location? Or just measure and drill then send out the frame?
-Reason I ask is because yesterday I attempted to mock up the drivetrain and ran into issues across the board: frame seemed to have "shrunk" slightly (frame rails are closer together than before) since the tranny x-member holes are tough to get aligned. Then, the 700r4 seemed to mount differently to the crossmember compared to the Th350 - the mounting holes on the end of the tranny seem rather small in diameter. Maybe I need 700r4 specific mounts/bolts?

Also while mocking up the DIY engine crossmember I tried putting the poly bushings into the tube and they are extremely tight and the bushing won't seat fully in the tube - to make matters worse I can't get the bushing out now. So I can't mock up the engine, and later I need to remove it so I can get it coated but can't. Awesome.

At this point I stopped from severe frustration and daylight running out...

Maybe I ran into all these problems because I am trying to reassemble some 40 year old parts with some new and some aftermarket parts? If anyone has some words of wisdom here I could really use a little advice from those that have been here before. I know there's a lot going on in this post but any help is appreciated.

[SeventyOne]

Ok so I solved part of issue - I completely forgot that the trans-to-tcase adapter is the part that actually bolts to the mounts on the trans x-member - I'll have to bolt that to the 700r4 first.

Now I just need to figure out why the DIY crossmember is not fitting right and try again with a mockup.

Advice from my above post it still welcome : )

[SeventyOne]

Update: 4/12/11

Getting all my chassis junk picked up for powder coating tomorrow

Frame
Transmission Crossmember
Transfer Case Torque Mount
Core Support
Bumper Brackets

In other news I'm looking for a trans and engine builder.

I think it will be a HUGE momentum and morale booster to get some CLEAN parts to work with and start assembling rather then disassembling.

Pics to come when I get them back from the coater!

[SeventyOne]

Update: 5/6/11

Got my junk back from the powder coater.

Before:



After:





Started getting the suspension assembled. These are Alcan springs. 6" front lift and 2" rear lift + 4" ORD shackle flips w/ 4.5" DIY4X shackles. I hope when I get some weight on the springs the shackles get better angles. Front is negative and the rear is straight up and down...



This thing is going to be huge...
I didn't have enough daylight to get the rear together but soon enough!

In other news:
I should be getting a sick little rebuilt 700r4 and the engine for the build (specs to come) before Memorial day. My brother (there's a pic of him elsewhere in this thread) is on leave from the Marine Corps that weekend so I am hoping he will have time and can help me spin some wrenches on this thing!

[y5mgisi]

Dang that frame came out clean!

[Jtrux]

I just read your build, looks good. On a side note about the lugs having a "loose" feeling, I wouldn't see any issue in running it like that since the friction between the rotor and wheel surface will negate any play in the stud, especially concerning the miniscule amount you mentioned. The stud doesn't actually hold the weight of the vehicle anyways, just the friction between the two surfaces BUT it looks like you found a good solution to your problem and i'm sure you won't have any issues. Look forward to reading about some more progress!

[cvalcore]

if you dont mind me asking how much did it cost to get the frame powder coated?

[SeventyOne]

Frame alone would have been $600. Not bad in my opinion - the thing is spotless. I got all the brackets, crossmembers, core support, shackles and mics junk for a little more than $900.

[jaros44sr]

how about a scissor jack and a 4x4??

[SeventyOne]

Ya maybe that could work...

Sorta like... [-X-]
if the [ ]'s are the frame rails, the -'s are 4x4's and the x is the jack to spread...

Now I gotta find a scissor jack - oh wait maybe my car has one.

I'll update later...

[jaros44sr]

Originally Posted by SeventyOne

Ya maybe that could work...

Sorta like... [-X-]
if the [ ]'s are the frame rails, the -'s are 4x4's and the x is the jack to spread...

Now I gotta find a scissor jack - oh wait maybe my car has one.

I'll update later...

I would only use 1 4x4, less chance of it slipping...

[ X-]

[SeventyOne]

From post 84

Originally Posted by SeventyOne

Frame alone would have been $600. Not bad in my opinion - the thing is spotless. I got all the brackets, crossmembers, core support, shackles and mics junk for a little more than $900.

[elzombo]

Let me know how the NP205 rebuild goes. I have been thinking about buying a rebuild kit and doing it myself, but I don't want to open it up and realize that I'm not sure how to put it back together. The dis-assembly always seems to be easier than the re-assembly.

[SeventyOne]

This truck won't be built for hardcore wheeling so I didn't see the need for the shackles. Down the road when I swap to a D60 and do crossover steering I might...

There's a great write up I found regarding the NP205 rebuild. Step by step instructions with pics. I figure If I get lost I can refer to that and an exploded view diagram to get it back together. It's just gears, bearings, shafts, and seals right??

I'll post a link to it when I get it back together with some pics.

[VA72C10]

Nice build! Looking great!!!!

[SeventyOne]

Update 5/14/11 - We're moving now!

Picked up my 700r4 from the trans builder this morning. Real good guy and super knowledgeable. He also hooked me up with a 5 pinion rear planetary gear set w/o charge! Can't wait to get this beast behind the engine!







Here's all the internals of the NP205. I spent about 4 hours today going through the bags and cleaning parts - bolts, cover plates, bearing retainers, etc - to get them ready for the assembly. POR15's Marin Clean is AMAZING at getting 40year old dirty greasy sludgy crap off these parts. It did seem to tarnish the aluminum parts though - I'm not too worried becuase 1: their clean, and 2: it's a Tcase...who cares...



This last shot shows the top of the case where the plugs and shift rail ball bearings sit. I wanted to show this because when I came to that part in the disassembly the top of the case had so much crap caked onto it I couldn't even find these holes! Nasty...



Case should get fully cleaned and masked for paint tomorrow. Seals and new bearings should be coming soon from NorthWestFab.

[SeventyOne]

Nothing much to add. Just boring stuff like painting the transfer case........oh and my engine will be delivered tomorrow....