Backhoe recommendations?

[cornerstone]

I'm ready to plunk down the $$$ for a strong and reliable 4 wheel drive backhoe. I've many projects I need to do around my place, but also like the idea of being able to earn a few bucks in the future with the machine. I know several of you gentlemen have a lot experience in this area, and would love to hear your opinion on what common issues to look for, what brands to avoid, etc. I believe I understand the basics of finding a well cared for machine, and how to avoid obvious junkers. My budget is +/-15k, which for a backhoe is not a lot, but hopefully enough to get a decent one.
Initially, I was thinking the more power, the better, but now I've realized the added issue of towing the extra weight. It won't be an issue for a while, but eventually I'll need to haul it around. Are there different weight classes of backhoes?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

I'm ready to plunk down the $$$ for a strong and reliable 4 wheel drive backhoe. I've many projects I need to do around my place, but also like the idea of being able to earn a few bucks in the future with the machine. I know several of you gentlemen have a lot experience in this area, and would love to hear your opinion on what common issues to look for, what brands to avoid, etc. I believe I understand the basics of finding a well cared for machine, and how to avoid obvious junkers. My budget is +/-15k, which for a backhoe is not a lot, but hopefully enough to get a decent one.
Initially, I was thinking the more power, the better, but now I've realized the added issue of towing the extra weight. It won't be an issue for a while, but eventually I'll need to haul it around. Are there different weight classes of backhoes?

Member "Other Larry" comes to mind on this one. Maybe he will be on here today. I'm sure there are others on the board who are familiar with the bigger machinery so just check back.

Good luck on your quest.

LockDoc

[mongocanfly]

i know case has a good rep...buddy of mine has several komatsus that he really likes

[Klas]

You may want to consider a mini-excavator. They seem to be more convenient than a backhoe and have both a boom and a blade.
I've operated both and prefer the mini because it's more versatile.
Renting either for a day might give you a feel for what would work best for you.

[mongocanfly]

id agree ...if your only using the backhoe end, a mini-x is much better...but your limited by not having a bucket....most contractors around here that have/or had backhoes are switching to mini-x and skidsteer ...

[Bigdav160]

I was just thinking I haven't seen a backhoe on a construction site in a long time. Lots of excavators and wheeled/trac loaders though.

There might be some good deals on one out there.

[whitedog76]

If you're in the backhoe market, I would 1st look at a Case 580. Then go from there.

The Case is pretty much the gold standard for backhoe loaders. Cat and Deere has been trying to catch them for years.

At trade shows, I've been impressed with the JCB models, but they suffer from a lack of dealer support around here anyway.

The biggest thing you need to look at is the cylinders and hydraulic lines on any backhoe. If the cylinder is marred up, o-rings leaking, etc... Well, it's going to cost you. Is the engine smoking, is there a delay in the hydraulics, those are things to look at. The other obvious thing is it's overall appearance, if it looks beat up, it probably is.

One of the drawbacks to Backhoe loaders is there size and manueverability. That's why you see a lot of skid loaders and mini excavators on job sites. Not to mention, being able to move them around. When we do underground work, we pull a pintle hook trailer with a mini or ride on trencher with a 2500HD truck. With a Backhoe you need a commercial truck.

Anyhow, just food for thought.

[cornerstone]

Thanks guys. I haven't put a lot of thought into the mini excavator, but now the gears are turning. I guess the main reason I thought backhoe was because I assumed it would dig with more power and speed. I'll need to do some comparing between the specs of each machine.

The size is important as well. Hauling a mini x would be so much less expensive. On the other hand, I could drive a backhoe quite far... 22 years ago I rented a full size hoe from an outfit in downtown Ft. Worth and drove it with the flashers on roughly 15 miles to my place of business, used it for a week and drove it back without a problem.

I can see another advantage of a mini x. Less stuff to repair/ maintain such as transmission, drive train issues and tires. I presume the tracks on a mini x are driven similar to the system on my zero turn mower, which has been a breeze to maintain.

[Killer Bee]

mini-ex machines are weak and fragile, only good use for them is work that a full size machine won't fit or homeowners that can't operate..

we have a standard list of mini units constantly out of service for various reasons..

for a one and done machine, tough to beat Cat.. just about everything under the sun available for them and doubt you'll find any place on the planet without dealer coverage.. and parts support for Cat machines is unparalleled.. even o-rings have their part numbers on them and just about everything you can think of breaking or wearing out will generally be in stock close enough to drive to..

we bought a significant number of Case last go around, not bad machines and decent dealer support.. parts availability isn't terrible however manufactures diag software is proprietary and not available to end user while Cat ET and the like are.. this may not sound like much but today's machines are loaded with logic controlled gadgets and you'll need that interface tool eventually on all of them..

JCB of course has a great reputation, can't speak about them personally, never operated, owned, or worked on one..

hopefully Mr. Davis will shed some light for you from a long time construction business owner's perspective..

I'll be joining you in the purchase of one in the near future for our farm, not sure how we've managed all these years without one

I plan on checking the local Ritchie auctions in Odessa near the farm when I'm ready for the plunge.. you may want to check local reputable auctions near you for good deals..

good luck!

[72c20customcamper]

Never had a problem with the Kubota. I abuse it regularly it a great small machine and you need to remember that. I borrow my buddies for big stuff

What are your plans for it , foundations septic tanks than a big machine is needed.

[davischevy]

We only have Cat and Case backhoes. We have more Cat's than Case's but we are leaning toward Case because of maintenance cost.

Price is king, Cat or Case, but don't buy junk. We had the two hydraulic cylinders stolen off the boom an a 320 Caterpillar excavator over the weekend. Caterpillars estimate to replace the cylinders and hard lines is over $40,000 and climbing.

Be warned, we just sold a Cat 420 D backhoe at auction that was ready for a rebuild, with almost 9,000 hrs, and it brought $22,500. I would have been happy with $18,000.

A mini ex would be a good choice for digging, but you don't have a way to load.

4wd is a must and an extendahoe boom is really handy. We quit buying enclosed rops (cab) because of glass replacement. If I were buying a machine to use myself, it would have heat and AC.

We have a 580 Super L Case that has close to 10,000 hrs on it. We should sell it, but it just keeps on ticking.

The best deals come from dealer rental fleets. Large projects tend to rent equipment and then let it sit. We have bought some low hr machines for cheap that way. We bought the one pictured a couple of months ago, with 200 hrs, out of Caterpillars rental fleet. Check with a dealer or rental company about buying from the rental fleet.

[1976gmc20]

Well, just in general - unless you have some sort of niche business like custom mailbox post installation - an excavation contractor is going to need a variety of commercial grade equipment. You will probably need a dump truck to haul stone/dirt/etc to/from a project, so there would be a commercial truck to pull your equipment trailer. The old guy in our neighborhood who is pretty much retired now had a big wheel tractor backhoe, a KW dump truck with pup, and a dozer and a grader.

Otherwise just get what you want for your own needs, and maybe help out a neighbor once in a while.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

Well, just in general - unless you have some sort of niche business like custom mailbox post installation - an excavation contractor is going to need a variety of commercial grade equipment. You will probably need a dump truck to haul stone/dirt/etc to/from a project, so there would be a commercial truck to pull your equipment trailer. The old guy in our neighborhood who is pretty much retired now had a big wheel tractor backhoe, a KW dump truck with pup, and a dozer and a grader.

Otherwise just get what you want for your own needs, and maybe help out a neighbor once in a while.

I started with a Kubota tractor and landscape attachments. I saved up until I could pay cash. That Kubota made enough to buy a backhoe. The Kubota and backhoe made enough to buy a dump truck. The Kubota, backhoe and dump truck made enough, well you get the picture. The trick was I never once borrowed any money.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

Well, just in general - unless you have some sort of niche business like custom mailbox post installation - an excavation contractor is going to need a variety of commercial grade equipment. You will probably need a dump truck to haul stone/dirt/etc to/from a project, so there would be a commercial truck to pull your equipment trailer. The old guy in our neighborhood who is pretty much retired now had a big wheel tractor backhoe, a KW dump truck with pup, and a dozer and a grader.

Otherwise just get what you want for your own needs, and maybe help out a neighbor once in a while.

Most guys around here have given up their dump trucks unless they are very large company . Most use dump trailers I have had this one for close to 8 years

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

mini-ex machines are weak and fragile

I used one for about an hour when my brother in law rented one, and truthfully I was not impressed, but it was a smaller one.

however manufactures diag software is proprietary and not available to end user while Cat ET and the like are.. this may not sound like much but today's machines are loaded with logic controlled gadgets and you'll need that interface tool eventually on all of them.
[/I]This brings up a relevant question... I would hope to be able to repair it myself, so maybe I should be looking for an older unit that doesn't force me to need the dealer for diagnostics.[/I]

I'll be joining you in the purchase of one in the near future for our farm, not sure how we've managed all these years without one
I presume you'll be on the hunt for a Caterpillar?

I plan on checking the local Ritchie auctions in Odessa near the farm when I'm ready for the plunge.. you may want to check local reputable auctions near you for good deals..
I watched all the backhoes run through Ritchie Brothers Auction last week, but unfortunately I didn't have time to inspect the equipment before hand. I didn't feel brave enough to trust their inspection reports.

good luck!

Thanks Killer Bee

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

What are your plans for it , foundations septic tanks than a big machine is needed.
Yeah, general construction stuff. I need to make a road through some rough terrain, and some grading work for erosion control.

Thanks Mark

Originally Posted by davischevy

Price is king, Cat or Case, but don't buy junk.
What's your opinion on JCB?


The best deals come from dealer rental fleets. Large projects tend to rent equipment and then let it sit. We have bought some low hr machines for cheap that way. We bought the one pictured a couple of months ago, with 200 hrs, out of Caterpillars rental fleet. Check with a dealer or rental company about buying from the rental fleet.
I like this plan! I'd bet the maintenance is more regular with a rental too.

Thanks other Larry!

[cornerstone]

I would hate to buy a stolen piece of equipment. Is there a way to verify against that? I know for cars and trucks there are ways to check. I've got my eye on a 1995 Cat 416b with 4600 hours. He wants 18k. I may go check it out tomorrow.

[mongocanfly]

Get the serial number and let the law run it for you...also let cat run it as well...
Theres a local guy that had 5or6 pieces of equipment confiscated a couple yrs ago...they found the 1st when he had to buy some parts and needed the serial number..it was flagged...then they raided his place and found more..didnt turn out well for him

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

I would hate to buy a stolen piece of equipment. Is there a way to verify against that? I know for cars and trucks there are ways to check. I've got my eye on a 1995 Cat 416b with 4600 hours. He wants 18k. I may go check it out tomorrow.

You can also take the SN to a Cat dealer and have it checked. The dealers have stolen machines in their database.

Dealers require a SN before they will sell a part. I have a story, but I will spare you.

Edit; I just read the previous. Sorry for being redundant.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

I would hate to buy a stolen piece of equipment. Is there a way to verify against that? I know for cars and trucks there are ways to check. I've got my eye on a 1995 Cat 416b with 4600 hours. He wants 18k. I may go check it out tomorrow.

Swing the boom side to side and check for free play. Put the bucket on the ground and apply pressure up and down and check for free play in the lower pivot pin.

If that machine has been serviced it should be good for another 4000 hrs.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Get the serial number and let the law run it for you...also let cat run it as well...
Theres a local guy that had 5or6 pieces of equipment confiscated a couple yrs ago...they found the 1st when he had to buy some parts and needed the serial number..it was flagged...then they raided his place and found more..didnt turn out well for him

It turns out you had already told the story. A similar situation happened in Missouri. The guy had one legal machine. When he bought parts he gave them that SN. Boss was away, the boys needed parts. The rest is history.

It's going to be interesting to see if they total our excavator. The repair bill is going to be 2/3 of the value of the machine.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by davischevy

It turns out you had already told the story. A similar situation happened in Missouri. The guy had one legal machine. When he bought parts he gave them that SN. Boss was away, the boys needed parts. The rest is history.

It's going to be interesting to see if they total our excavator. The repair bill is going to be 2/3 of the value of the machine.

This makes me wonder if my Cat dealer would be willing to share the history of the repairs or parts bought under the serial number. Probably just wishful thinking...

Whats up with that? How on Gods green earth can 2 cylinders and some hard lines cost that much?? What will you do if they total it, take the check buy another one and hand over a nearly new backhoe?

[davischevy]

Caterpillar will tell you the service history.

This is another machine just like the victim machine.

Those two cylinders that lift the main boom are $9,300 each and the hard lines on them are $6,000. They also stole the pins for the cylinders. Other miscellaneous parts, labor and rental machine added up quick.

[davischevy]

That reason I mentioned checking pins. You don't want to buy any more Caterpillar parts than necessary.

We had one of these excavators fall off a mountain a couple of years ago. The insurance company totaled it.

What ever you buy, insure it. Insurance on equipment is cheap. We have had machines burned, wrecked and stolen. The insurance company hasn't flinched yet.

[Greenlee]

I grew up working for my dad’s plumbing company from the late 70’ through early 90’s. We always used Case 580’s. Maybe I was just more used to using them, but every time I tried using anything else I was wishing I was back on the Case.

We always had Chevy trucks as well. Lol

[mongocanfly]

Those high priced cat parts is why my buddy went to mostly komatsu... price, parts and service are so much better in our area