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11-07-2020, 09:22 PM | #1 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
I need some advice. I’m working on a 1964 C10 with my son for him to drive when he’s 16 (he is 12 now). It is currently a bare frame, and we have just started installing a No Limit IFS, and I have No Limit goodies for the rear as well. I’m keeping the stock trailing arms, as ours are in good shape. Part of the suspension install will obviously be the rear end. The truck came with a 12 bolt truck diff, it’s open wheel with an unknown gear ration. I did a 5x5 bolt pattern on the IFS from No Limit. I’m trying to decide if I should have the 12 bolt rebuilt or swap to a 9 inch. There is a really reputable shop in Clemmons, NC who will do the rebuild and axle swap for around $2400. New gears, Eaton limited slip, etc. I’d still have to do disc brakes, which I am estimating around $500. I could also go with a complete bolt in 9 inch including brakes from Moser or Currie for not much more. I need some advice on what to do here, or if I’m missing another option to do it with a little lower impact to the budget. What say the forum? Thanks!
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11-07-2020, 10:27 PM | #2 |
60-66 Nut
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 23,246
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a truck 12 bolt. How much power will you be putting to it? $2400 seems awfully high to me to rebuild a 12 bolt. I fabricate and sell 3 different rear disc conversions for the truck 10 and 12 bolt with the 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. The biggest problem I see with guys going with a 9" is their choice in housing ends. They end up with Ford brakes because of it. If that's what you want, then that is fine.
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Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE |
11-07-2020, 10:33 PM | #3 |
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
Captainfab, thanks for the reply. I agree that the price seems high, but I’m having trouble locating other reputable shops in the area to do the rebuild. I also don’t really have a good basis for comparison on the price. I’m good with spending some money on it, but I don’t want to be in it for a ton if I can help it. I’m all about doing work on my own, but I don’t have the tools or experience to properly set up a differential. Anyone have suggestions on 1) locating other reputable shops, or 2) have a recommendation in the Triad, NC area (or even towards Charlotte)?
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11-07-2020, 10:49 PM | #4 |
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
To answer the Captainfab’s other questions, I have a 2010 LY6 (6.0 LS based truck engine) factory rated at 364hp. I see it as a good foundation, as multiple magazines have done can swaps and gone over 500hp with this engine. I don’t think that I’ll be turning it up immediately, but I’m planning on building the truck as a good foundation with plenty of room to grow. I don’t know what the overall use will end up being. It will likely start as a daily driver, but may end up doing some autocross or other racing at a later point. My plan is to give it a solid foundation, and a stout rear end. That being said, I’m good with the 12 bolt (and would honestly rather keep it). I didn’t know that Captainfab made disc brake conversions for the 12 bolt. I’ll keep that in mind as I move forward.
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11-08-2020, 08:55 AM | #5 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
That 2400 is sounding like full retail prices . Do your own shopping and see the prices .
Then pop the cover and see what you have now you might be surprised its clean and useable . Maybe add a lunch box locker to replace the open spider gears and a pair of 5club axles and your brake kit . And why disc rear ? Good drum work fine with disc front combo all the time .
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77-k30lb BIG truck build . 87-k30lb budget beater build . 85-k30lb the plow machine build . 85-c10sb summer fun toy . ----------------------------- HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had . EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great. |
11-08-2020, 11:27 AM | #6 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 306
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
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11-08-2020, 12:31 PM | #7 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
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11-08-2020, 11:50 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 335
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
I have had this same debate in my swap to 5 lug and found I end up in a very similar place. I think the $2400 seems reasonable to me based on my research. It isn't exhaustive, but very recent.
Just a modern and streetable limited slip (truetrac, etc.) At the best price I could find was $850+. Add in new axles, ring and pinion, seals, bearings, and clean and paint... You are at 1800-2k, without labor. The disc brake conversion with parking brake even with a diy kit adds up fast as well. This isn't an argument against, but just a confirmation that it is easy to spend a lot on a rear end that may not be exactly what you want, when trying to save a few bucks. However,if you are looking at an off the shelf 9" with brakes- it gets up near $4k really fast. I think the days of finding a good 5 lug with posi in the junkyard or on Craigslist for $200 are long gone unfortunately. People are hoarding parts. |
11-08-2020, 12:26 PM | #9 | |
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
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11-16-2020, 04:03 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lewisville, Nc
Posts: 10,217
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
Quote:
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David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube |
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11-09-2020, 11:22 AM | #11 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Columbus, MS
Posts: 435
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
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11-08-2020, 12:35 PM | #12 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary Alberta
Posts: 1,164
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
No mention has been made of the newer Ford 8.8" that seems to be quite popular for swaps and it could already have the disc brakes and maybe posi too.
I guess it depends where you are. I've had a 64 diff on Kijiji for probably a year now and nobody wants it. No posi though. |
11-08-2020, 01:52 PM | #13 |
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Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 335
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
I would like to hear about other options. In my research, it doesn't seem like it really matters that much (cost-wise) where you start with regards to the axle housing except for matching the wms width.
I am unaware of a stock axle housing (14 bolt, 9", 8.8") that is similar/same, without going down the rabbit hole of looking for a relatively rare combo of vehicle. For example a late model 14 bolt out of a cab and chassis dually. Once you are having to narrow and buy custom 5x5 axles, and discs; how much would you think you would save? Honest question, out of my own ignorance. |
11-08-2020, 10:16 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 1,921
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
For that kind of change i would look at a dana 60 SRW from a 2000ish 2500 light duty. Stout axle with a chunk that will take alot of abuse. Also comes with rear disc. It would be 6 lug though
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11-09-2020, 05:26 PM | #15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hickory Flat, GA
Posts: 4,426
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
Do the lunch box lockers act like a welded diff, or do they allow some speed difference of the axles while turning?
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Christian Carpenter 1963 C10 - Frankentruck 283, 3 speed with overdrive Overdrive wiring here1963-ish truck bed trailer - Half-Wit 1981 C10 - Penny 305, th350 1995 Dodge Dakota Sport "I'll put it simple: if you're going hard enough left, you'll find yourself turning right." - Doc Hudson |
11-09-2020, 05:31 PM | #16 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,794
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
there a ratcheting design for street use .
my trucks are 1ton 4x4 stuff and or my 1 2wd is a detroit true trac posi . so my axles have lockers or the gm gov-loc units . my feedback for road use wouldnt help you on the lunch box unit . but i know lots of guys run them and seem to be happy .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build . 87-k30lb budget beater build . 85-k30lb the plow machine build . 85-c10sb summer fun toy . ----------------------------- HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had . EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great. |
11-09-2020, 08:51 PM | #17 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
I called my powder coat/blasting guy today because he has a bunch of local contacts. He’s putting me in touch with a local guy who owns a shop, and does a lot of rear end build on the side for his personal pro mod, and for others in the area. Hopefully I’ll get a better idea on pricing from this guy. I will post back with any progress.
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11-09-2020, 10:28 PM | #18 |
60-66 Nut
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 23,246
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
Your '64 12 bolt will have 17 spline axles. All the 5 x 5 conversion axles are 30 spline. I believe most if not all 'lunch box' lockers for a truck 12 bolt will be 30 spline.
__________________
Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE |
11-14-2020, 07:23 PM | #19 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ark City, Kansas
Posts: 3,284
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
CaptainFab,
What is your idea of the limits of a truck 12 bolt, power wise??? Just wondering... I talked to the owner of the "Farm Truck", years ago before they all became movie stars. His pickup had run a best of 10.13 quarter mile pass, been years ago...Right up until they got their TV deal going the Farmtruck ran a TH350 trans...my jaw dropped, when he told me. The last time I talked to him he had just switched to a TH400, just for peace of mind, no other particular reason, out of Shawn's mouth...I am pretty sure the 10.13 pass was way before he upped the cubes in his engine. The Farmtruck has always had a 2 piece drive shaft,and a 9" ford differential, (when I sw it run...) I have no idea about what he has run for drive train in recent few years (hollywood years...LOL) |
11-14-2020, 10:06 PM | #20 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mocksville, NC
Posts: 81
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
Thanks all for the input, it is much appreciated. After looking at options, I think I’m going to go with the shop that originally quoted me. They have a great reputation, and there’s something to be said about dropping the rear end off, and picking it up completely done, cleaned and painted. I’m all about doing it myself, but I have to remember that I still have an entire truck to build. Captainfab, I’ll PM you, but I’m going with your Camaro brackets. Impala/Caprice rotors with a caliper that had an integrated parking brake? Sign me up!
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11-14-2020, 10:43 PM | #21 |
60-66 Nut
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 23,246
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
The strength limit of any differential is going to be directly related to the tires bolted to the axles. Also there is the variable whether you are talking a completely stock truck 12 bolt, or one that has been built to withstand abuse. With that said, my son had a '79 K10 with a mildly built SB400 and on 36" tires. He broke the axle tubes loose from the center section and spun it 90*. I will add that my son used to be really hard on his vehicles, so this would not be typical of most people. He could have probably broke a nerf ball if he tried. A truck 12 bolt under that same truck with say 31/10.50 tires would last a long time. The same analogy could be applied to street use.
__________________
Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE |
11-14-2020, 09:37 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lewisville, Nc
Posts: 10,217
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Re: Rebuild 12 bolt or swap to 9 inch?
What is shops name in clemmons? I live in lewisville NC and also do repairs but nothing like that I probably gonna need rear end work on my 71
__________________
David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube |
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