The ethics of a seller - the "gray" areas

[68bowtie]

The restored swb k10 on the craigslist thread got me thinking (the one with the reproduction spid and $80k price tag that the seller says it was restored to "factory specs").

In YOUR opinion, where is the line between right and wrong when selling a vehicle? I'm particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on the "gray" areas.

For example, I see lots of negative posts about the terrible no-good very bad "flipper". I personally believe flipping is not inherently bad, including the guy who never even unloaded it and has no idea what they have. Misrepresentations are "wrong" only if they are done knowingly and intentionally to scam a buyer.

What about bondo and a quick re-spray to make a truck show better? How much of that is on the buyer to do their diligence?

What about not disclosing problems if the seller doesn't ask about it (i.e. do all gauges work)?

[Rickysnickers]

Well, I recently sold my somewhat daily driver. It wasn't a classic by any stretch, a 2010 Toyota X-Runner. I disclosed the few things that were wrong with the truck and three small scratches, that most people would not even have seen had I not showed them. The buyer didn't really even ask any questions about the truck when he bought it. I believe you do the right thing all the time. Although I will say that it seems the nice guy almost always finishes last too.

[Palf70Step]

Originally Posted by Rickysnickers

................ I believe you do the right thing all the time. Although I will say that it seems the nice guy almost always finishes last too.

[truckster]

If doing the right thing means I finish last, I'm OK with that. I believe in being honest in dealing with others. A lie of omission is not much different than an outright lie. Having said that, if you don't know the answer to a question, say as much.

[Softpatch]

I recently looked at a 1991 G30 Van the owner swore it only had 60,000 miles on it
because that was what the speedo read..
It didnot.
But did buy it and paid his asking price $500
and stuffed the drive trane in my 1966 C-20
.
when your buying You can't let your emotion come into play Because most times it will cloud your judgement and you will get bit.
When your selling you have to realize the value is what the market at that time will bare
not what you value is because you spent More time and money onyour truck

.
.....Sp
.
.

[richard2717]

I try to sell in the same manor I want to buy

[LS short box]

When I'm selling I disclose everything I know about the vehicle. Then let the buyer decide if I'm honest about the vehicle condition. Things like "nice paint job" are very subjective. I always take photos of the vehicle as I strip it down and the case of my C10 photos of the cab and front sheet metal in bare steel. Also photos of the rebuild process. I also keep and provide all parts receipts and they go with the vehicle. I don't have anything against "flippers" it's their way of making a buck. The bad thing is most of the time they don't have a clue about the real condition of the vehicle.

[Greasey Harley]

When I sell a vehicle, I answer all questions honestly and try to disclose anything that's not blatantly obvious.
When I buy a vehicle, I assume the seller is lying to me.

[Warrens69GMC]

My opinion, doesn't mean others are wrong or right....

On Buying, if it has a "new" Spid, I want to see at least a picture of the original with vin number, WB and options. No "Old" Spid? We are speculating if its true...

Options - Some options have been added as the years go on.....Our 1969 307 now has a 4bbl and PS and PB, and yes it didn't come that way...., the spid should reflect it was a 2bbl non PS/PB ...

And some options are better - A 307 - 3OTT and 3.07 gear original, now has a 5.3L/4L80 and 3.50 in a ford 9 with disc brakes all around- This is a plus - just don't misrepresent it

[FleetsidePaul]

I disclose everything that I know of. I guess I'm a terrible salesman.

But the one thing I dislike is when someone comes in and tries to seriously cut me down for no other reason than to cut me down. I'm being on the level and they aren't. They are playing games and trashing my car. They can take a walk as far as I'm concerned. And I'll tell them so.

As far as buying goes. That's always a crap shoot.I expect something to happen. Because it always does on older cars. They just do that. You can't blame the seller.

I sold a truck to a guy and he came back a day later and the motor was knocking badly.

I had that truck for two years with no issues whatsoever. He had it one day and now the motor is F#cked up. I gave him his money back. Maybe I should have told him to shove it. But I didn't. I ate the money and sold it later for a lot less with a bad motor. I'm sure that this guy thrashed it and messed it up. But I couldn't prove it. And I stand behind my word. I said it was a good truck. Who knows what happened. I lost money. But I kept my dignity.

[special-K]

Some feel honest means forthright. Others feel honest means not lying. You buy a new vehicle you are given all the information about it. Why not with a used vehicle? Tell them what they are getting for that price so they can decide if they want it or not.

[The Rocknrod]

Everyone has a responsibility - even the buyer. Sometimes neither hold up their end.

[Stormin08]

here is take, would you ever sell the said vehicle to your best friend ?

i say that as i never have, but knowing how i treat and service my vehicles...i would never have hesitation doing so.

[joedoh]

i used to SELL trucks, getting excited to help a buyer get excited, thinking the right truck for the buyer was the one for sale, and that they wouldnt be looking unless they had done their research and knew the market.

now with all the guys who have learned bargaining skills from the picker shows, the ones who generously offer themselves a 40% discount before they even look in person, I have found that their first offer is usually all they have and they are just shooting their shot, and it doesnt do any good to help them see it.

I offered a dinged up truck at below kbb TRADE IN, advertised it as such, good mechanicals, low miles, but has some dings and dents, nothing serious but almost every panel had some kind of ding. a guy called and I reiterated, low miles, great runner, has body damage, thats the reason for the low price. he came with his son, and started picking at every ding and dent, said we needed to come to a better price because it was just so beat up. I actually left him on my steps while he was going on and on, he didnt realize I had gone inside and started knocking and calling, we werent done negotiating! yes sir, we were.

otherwise it is the same buyer I get all the time, the "I know the market" guy who compares apples to grapefruits and lowballs. I am polite, nothing wasted but some emails or texts, and always the same confusion three days later when the listing is taken down, did you sell it? why didnt you tell me you had other offers? I was a real player on that truck! well I didnt really consider yours an offer, more like a joke.

my point is, I am still the same seller, honest in description and fair in price, if not dead on accurate. its the buyers that have changed, buyer remorse isnt remorse any longer its straight up complaining.

[67C10Step]

When selling something I am probably as bad or worse than the buyer because I lay it all out there and my price. Saying up front my price reflects everything I know about said vehicle. I have also actually told people when they lay out there first price we are so far apart we should probably stop at that point.

The last vehicle I sold was a 2009 Toyota Corolla that I had used as a work vehicle. It had 233K miles on it but didn't smoke, leak, or use a drop of oil between changes. It had some paint chips and some clear coat issues on the roof which I described, along with everything I had done to the car mechanically. It was a solid driver and I described it as a good work car or perfect first car for some kid.

Guy bought it for his daughter as her first car and paid me my asking price as we both thought it was fair. I had no worries about a young girl in the car because I used to get in it at 5 a.m. every morning and drive an hour one way to work. I trusted that car.

Now, the guys like the $80K truck in question? I'd say that is probably deception trying to pass something off as something it is not. It's still a nice truck, just not what they are portraying it to be due to the fact they want to get that high $$ price out of it. Happens in every market that is hot and people with cash that don't know what they are looking at get took. Now I would also say that anyone that is looking at an $80K 1972 4x4 probably should have enough money I'm not worried about them taking it in the shorts as it is on them as a buyer to know better.

I am in sales but it's for highly engineered products. However, when I am buying I always tell folks that I win or lose every day in sales so I have zero emotional involvement. I listen to what a seller is saying but never believe most of it. I feel like the buyer should have done enough research to not get skinned alive. I've paid more than I wanted to for a few things because it was in front of me, was acceptable, and had to weigh how much more my time was worth to keep looking.

[samkost]

What ethics?
Buyers and bidders beware!
Posting that Craigslist ad from the Seattle area, I knew that it would get some reaction from the informed members here on this site.
I also posted the Barrett-Jackson auction trucks to compare of what's been developing with the prices paid at the auctions.
Sad some of these buyers are uniformed about authenticity.

One reason I belong to this site is to learn from you guys that know!

Will we ever see a dedicated judging program for our generation of popular trucks similar to the NCRS for Corvettes or the Marti group valuation for classic Mustangs?
The prices sure warrant it.
You can't sell them for what you spent on them .

[FleetsidePaul]

It's not just cars/trucks. My buddy bought a house close to mine. It is a really cool looking place. And he paid top dollar for it.

I went over with 2 friends to check it out. One is a roofer and the other is a contractor. But they're both retired.

They both shook their heads when they got a close look at it. The roof was shot, the electrical was shot, and so is the plumbing. But on the surface it looked good.

Now he's knee deep in repairs. He didn't have anyone look at it. He never asked. He just bought it because his wife wanted it and he never says no to her. He didn't call anyone first or get a inspection.

[A1971Blazer]

Caveat Emptor..." Let the Buyer Beware"
You hear the expression "it's worth whatever someone will pay for it".......in reality...it's worth the least you're willing to take for it
There are honest people and dishonest people everywhere...and no solid way to distinguish between the two.

[prairewolf]

when someone asks what you paid for something, or what you sold something for?. Tell them it was The Exact Right Amount.. that way they can look at you with their mouth half open, wondering how they can tell you that they would have given you more, or got you more for it when you sold it, or found you one for less..

[special-K]

I have never asked anyone either of those two questions. I figure that's their info to offer if they want.

Primer can be a grey area on a used car purchase

[davischevy]

I trust people until they give me a reason not to, but when I buy anything, I buy what I see. I never put any stock in what people say.

I assume the seller has no ethics. It ain't personal, it's business at that point.

A friend of mine bought a 1971 Chevelle SS454 new and later sold it to a neighbor of mine. In 1985 the neighbor guy wanted to sell it but not to me because he thought I would flip it for a profit. Another friend of mine bought it and I paid him double what he paid.

The neighbor guy asked me one day what I paid. I said, "It doesn't make any difference to you now, but I will tell you this, if I told you, you would get sick at your stomach." and left him standing there wondering. I still have the car 35 years later.