INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio etc

[Gregski]

Transfer Slot Adjustment (using the Idle Speed Screw... it's not just for mocking with the RPMs you know)

so we need to make the transfer slot look like a square, easy to do with the carb off, but how do we get back to a square after messing with it on the truck

well on my carb I figured out that after I gently bottom out the Idle Speed screw it takes 7 turns to undo it to the point where the transfer slot disappears completely, so that gets us half way there

then it just so happens that if I turn the screw in 1.5 turns we get a perfect square

hey 1.5 (kinda like the idle mixture screw) even I can remember that

so now with the carb on the truck we know how to get back to a square if we have to, (try it on yours with the carb off first as your mileage may very)

just trying to show you it from different angles in the pics, hard to do this with one hand holding the camera etc as a one man job

[Gregski]

and so my little 600 CFM 4160 type carb is baselined

- both idle mixutre screws 1.5 turns out
- primary transfer slots set to show only a .020" square

here I am just showing off my measly 65 main jets (after I removed the front float bowl)

and the 45R-312 boosters

[Gregski]

Oh O

well one thing you will notice with me is that I am honest and I share the good and the bad, the bad and the ugly, so I must share with you that I lost my first two Data Logs because the LogWorks software crashed when I merely clicked on the X axis in the graph in an attempt to change the legend a bit to zoom in on the numbers, but oh well, live an learn, and I do have a third Data Log so we can look at that one later

anyone else using this software and realizing some problems with it?

[Gregski]

Idle Test Results after Bench Tuning the Holley 4160 Carburetor

Wow, fellers what a difference resetting the carburetor to factory/recommended specs has made and understanding why and the impact

BEFORE: 10.6 (Left Bank aka Driver Side) / 11.00 (Right Bank aka Passenger Side) Too Rich

AFTER: 13.6 / 13.8 aka Almost Perfect

RPM: 550(ish)

now we could do better and strive for 14.7 but keep in mind there is a balance between Prius like fuel economy and In Yer Face performance, ha ha - so the numbers we see above are pretty darn good for now, plus setting the Idle AFR is only the tip of the ice berg, we shall take a look at Cruising AFR next

check out those read outs... nice! excuse you me while I sprain my elbow patting myself on the back - ha ha

[AnotherWs6]

I agree. I'm seriously considering returning my two units and purchasing the same double unit that you have. I'm not sure if anybody else sells something similar, but I was looking at either your unit or one like it. As I think I mentioned earlier, it's the digital part that made me turn away.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

I agree. I'm seriously considering returning my two units and purchasing the same double unit that you have. I'm not sure if anybody else sells something similar, but I was looking at either your unit or one like it. As I think I mentioned earlier, it's the digital part that made me turn away.

try eBay I can see if I can help you out, here is the BOSCH LSU 4.9 Oxygen Sensor for only $29 bucks, this is by far the best price ever, even with the additional $7 bones to ship it, especially if you buy two of them and they combine the shipping

*Genuine* Bosch LSU 4.9 Wideband Lambda O2 AFR Sensor UEGO AEM Motec

so prices be coming down

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

I agree. I'm seriously considering returning my two units and purchasing the same double unit that you have. I'm not sure if anybody else sells something similar, but I was looking at either your unit or one like it. As I think I mentioned earlier, it's the digital part that made me turn away.

Then all you will need for the bare bones minimum is their LC-2 Wideband O2 Controller you can pick one up on eBay for about $125 bucks

Innovate Motorsports LC-2 Lambda Cable - 8 ft. Sensor Cable 3881

no gauges needed for starters, use your laptop to show virtual gauges, your laptop will also act as your Data Logger - win / win

by the way we don't need no 8 foot sensor cables the 3 foot ones are plenty

[Corts60]

Looks like this may have been a good read, but I couldn't get past the third post without a headache. Try not writing like that so people can read your posts without getting frustrated. Not being mean, just stating a fact.

[foamypirate]

Originally Posted by Corts60

Looks like this may have been a good read, but I couldn't get past the third post without a headache. Try not writing like that so people can read your posts without getting frustrated. Not being mean, just stating a fact.

I don't see a problem with his style. Not everyone's writing style will be the same. I quite enjoy Mr. Gregski's.

[Riveted1]

Loving this. Was wanting to try this on my vehicles. Glad you're taking the time to do it step by step! Keep it up.

[harley87ta]

I've been enjoying the post and all the information

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Riveted1

Loving this. Was wanting to try this on my vehicles. Glad you're taking the time to do it step by step! Keep it up.

One tip to those wanting to dive in. Spend the extra money and get the plug and pray equipment that just works like I have, sure there may be cheaper ways to go, but trust me you would rather spend the time and energy on trying to tune your ride and figure out what adjustments to make to the truck (and there will be plenty of work and frustration and a learning curve there) rather than spending time soldering wires and connecting gauges to other parts that may or may not want to fit / play nice together, just my 2 cents and my 2 cents are free.

and guys this is so much fun, go for it

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by foamypirate

I don't see a problem with his style. Not everyone's writing style will be the same. I quite enjoy Mr. Gregski's.

thank you I appreciate that, I can remember my cool teachers by name to this day the ones that joked around the ones that were loose, think back for a second, can you, sometimes this stuff can be kind of dry and monotone so I try to joke, I'm just one of the guys sitting on a broken lawn chair having a cheap beer (I'm looking at you Ol' Milwaukee) and just shootin the _______ about trucks, you know what I mean, except instead of us being in the back of my house we are on the Information Super Highway

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Corts60

Looks like this may have been a good read, but I couldn't get past the third post without a headache. Try not writing like that so people can read your posts without getting frustrated. Not being mean, just stating a fact.

apologies I should not post drunk, jk, I don't know sometimes the truck just makes me wanna speak that way, please give it another go as I polished it up a bit realizing this can be important information and should be taken more seriously

[AnotherWs6]

A couple of knocks on this guy's writing..... Odd. I think he's doing a great job at describing everything.

[Gregski]

Gentlemen as we sit here waiting for my Digital Vacuum Gauge to arrive I strongly encourage you to read the following Car Craft article by Jeff Smith. It is a very easy read and Jeff Smith is the Godfather of wideband tunning write ups in my opinion, very good at explaining things. So this is a good primer and a great place to start, it is also one of the oldest articles I found, as its from 12 years ago.

My two take aways were the difference between narrow band oxygen sensors and wideband sensors, and how at the end of the article he talks about diagnosing a Chevelle that has been tuned by a pro yet the equipment showed room for improvement.

Enjoy...

Tune In, Turn On, and Make Power

[Gregski]

Finally got through to Holley Tech Support today and spoke with Tony about adjusting the secondary butterflies and exposing the secondary transfer slots on my 4160 carburetor to lean out the idle mixture some more.

He said that the secondary transfer slots sit higher than the ones in the primaries and should NOT be exposed.

However I could crack the secondary butterflies open a bit more to lean out the mixture further than the 13.5 at idle I am getting now.

We also discussed advancing my ignition timing from 10° to 12° or even higher as an alternative or in addition to.

He used a phrase that I have heard from tech support guys like ProForm the makers of my previous HEI distributor, it goes like this "see if your truck likes it" or "and if your truck likes it".

Now that's kinda subjective to me, and its like asking your three year old what they would "like" for dinner, I mean my truck will run and drive with the distributor anywhere from 0° to 18° and AFR anywhere from a rich of 9 AFR to 15 AFR, anywho just getting that off my chest

[AnotherWs6]

Originally Posted by Gregski

Finally got through to Holley Tech Support today and spoke with Tony about adjusting the secondary butterflies and exposing the secondary transfer slots on my 4160 carburetor to lean out the idle mixture some more.

He said that the secondary transfer slots sit higher than the ones in the primaries and should NOT be exposed.

However I could crack the secondary butterflies open a bit more to lean out the mixture further than the 13.5 at idle I am getting now.

We also discussed advancing my ignition timing from 10° to 12° or even higher as an alternative or in addition to.

He used a phrase that I have heard from tech support guys like ProForm the makers of my previous HEI distributor, it goes like this "see if your truck likes it" or "and if your truck likes it".

Now that's kinda subjective to me, and its like asking your three year old what they would "like" for dinner, I mean my truck will run and drive with the distributor anywhere from 0° to 18° and AFR anywhere from a rich of 9 AFR to 15 AFR, anywho just getting that off my chest

10 degrees is pretty tame. My truck "likes" about 15-16.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

10 degrees is pretty tame. My truck "likes" about 15-16.

I hear you and I used to run it as high as 16° myself but since I built (technically rebuilt my 1974 engine with 1999 Vortec heads) according to the GM Chevrolet Performance 350HO Deluxe Engine (19210008) Specifications


"Set initial spark timing at 10º before top dead center (BTDC) at 650 rpm with the vacuum advance line to the distributor disconnected and plugged. This setting will produce 32º of total advance at wide-open throttle (WOT)."

So I decided to time it according to their instructions, (at least to have a baseline) and then adjust accordingly. Just thought you all should know where I am coming from as I am a stickler for doing things by the book, within reason of course.

[Gregski]

more importantly my INNOVATE Motor Sports digital dual function vacuum gauge showed up, it also records RPM, so I am super excited to get that installed.

P/N: 3851, MSRP $169 I scored it for $130 new and free shipping on eBay

this will allow me to log RPM, AFR, and Vacuum, very cool as logging AFR by itself is like clapping with one hand

the cable in the middle with the black box at the end is the MAP sensor and the key to the whole operation as it takes vacuum and converts it to an electronic signal which the gauge can display

one gotcha is that this gauge did not come with the "intermediate" Molex cable to connect it to the existing gauge / controller so I will have to purchase that separate now I can use it in stand alone mode, but the whole point of going with all gauges from the same company is that they integrate and plug in to each other, very cool stuff

[Jay2Cor517]

Originally Posted by Gregski

P/N: 3851, MSRP $169 I scored it for $130 new and free shipping on eBay

one gotcha is that this gauge did not come with the "intermediate" Molex cable to connect it to the existing gauge / controller so I will have to purchase that separate now I can use it in stand alone mode, but the whole point of going with all gauges from the same company is that they integrate and plug in to each other, very cool stuff

I had been looking in to tuning using an AFR gauge for a while now and you have convinced me it's worth the effort. The plan is to order the dual AFR gauge and vacuum/boost gauge then install at the same time. As far as the 'gotcha', what is the P/N for the cable? I went to their website but couldn't figure out which one. Thanks for all the hard work, documentation, pics, graphs, trial and error etc. It's makes it just that much easier for the rest of us to follow. Keep posting--Jay2Cor517

[Gregski]

so one metric we have not touched on yet was Miles Per Gallon - MPG

here is my MPG progression since I got the gauge

9.19 MPG => 13.3 MPG => 15.6 MPG today when I filled up last

something tells me this gauge will eventually pay for itself

[Gregski]

time to get my read on

[Will206]

I ordered one of these when I started my project but apparently I didn't do my research well enough.

I got the Innovate Motorsports kit with the single wideband O2 and a simple gauge that displays the A/F.

It does have the LC-2 controller so at least I can log it on my laptop, but I wish I would have spent the extra hundred and got the provisions for the better gauge and second O2 sensor.

I suppose that knowing one bank is better than nothing, and I could still add a second bung and just switch it to the other side as needed but that's a bit of a pain.

Greg: In your tests are the sensors always pretty close in terms of A/F?

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Will206

I ordered one of these when I started my project but apparently I didn't do my research well enough.

I got the Innovate Motorsports kit with the single wideband O2 and a simple gauge that displays the A/F.

It does have the LC-2 controller so at least I can log it on my laptop, but I wish I would have spent the extra hundred and got the provisions for the better gauge and second O2 sensor.

I suppose that knowing one bank is better than nothing, and I could still add a second bung and just switch it to the other side as needed but that's a bit of a pain.

glad you are in the game, please remember that if you run two O2 sensors and plan on switching the gauge/controller between them you will DAMAGE the disconnected sensor, so the proper way to do it is to have one O2 sensor and move that from bung to bung and plug the other bung with a plug, in case you did not know that, just a kind reminder

Originally Posted by Will206

Greg: In your tests are the sensors always pretty close in terms of A/F?

great question, I have noticed that at cruising speed, for example when I am going 70 to 75 MPH my one bank runs leaner than the other, I don't recall which side does what but I do have the graph to prove it I have been saving that discussion until we get to the main circuit ie main jets, etc

now this can also be do to a persistant misfire but again we will cover that later, also this is when having an O2 sensor in each header pipe would really narrow it down but we're talking about 4 dual gauges there and eight total O2 sensors, super geeky stuff, but cool non the less