Lifter Tick after rebuild

[D.PASSMORE]

Had my GEN1 350/SBC fully machined/rebuilt by a reputable engine shop.

In a nut shell, I did not stroke it, machined bottom end to just change pistons/rings to fit my desired specs. So bottom end is standard stroke. Had the blocked decked to ensure quench is where we wanted. Top end: AFR 64cc aluminum heads, Harland Sharpe 1.5 roller rockers with summit brand 5/16, 7.750 pushrods used with guides. Lunati Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam & Lifter Kit 10120701LK, Edelbrock intake manifold 2101(Spread) with a sweet Quadrajet. Running a Small DUI distributer setup, curved for a mild performance SBC, Taylor wires and Champion platinum 3025 plugs. Engine runs smooth with good power, AF is correct, 12 at idle, 13+- acceleration and 14.7 at cruise. Temp stays constantly around 160/170 degrees. Good oil pressure at cold start, runs at about 45psi (Hot) and it drops off to about 15-20 psi (Hot) at idle, 800 rpm. I just completed 1000 mile break-in, using Amsoil 30w break-in oil. Now, running Penn 10-30 motor oil with Napa Gold filter.

Issue: Ran the motor soft for the first 500 miles, never over 4k RPM. About 600 miles a stabbed it a little hard up to about 4,5K and back down rather quickly. Started hearing a lifter tick after that run on passenger side bank (2-8). Starting getting worse after another 50 miles. So I investigate, engine still warm, pull the valve cover and feel the rocker arms out, notice considerable play in number 6 intake rocker. Tighten it down about quarter turn to eliminate play (up and down), runs solid for another 50 miles or so, start to here ticking again. Next morning, investigate with engine cold, sure enough, 6 intake rocker lose again, tighten it down about quarter turn to eliminate play (up and down), and runs solid for another 50 miles or so, start to here ticking again. Opened valve cover again, this time I swapped rocker arms with known good one. Tick comes back, same valve/rocker. I’m starting to think CAM is wiped on that lobe, but no signs (glitter) in the oil. Oil is really clean, so I open top motor and replace lifter with a lubed up replacement Lunati lifter. Runs great for about 100 miles, ticking is starting to come back on same rocker/lifter set up. Couple things: Oil pumps through all lifters/pushrod with good flow. The replacement lifter seems to have less volume coming out. The ticking/tapping is noticeable at idle, but not all the time. Starting to get me really concerned…

Thoughts/Ideas: First, maybe a restricted oil passage to that lifter. Second take a good look at the CAM lobe tip through lifter socket/hole, maybe it is getting wiped. Third, remove all lifters/pushrod, laid out by socket/hole sequence, inspect them all. Fourth, check the valve spring to see if it broke. Fifth, with special air nozzle blow out all upper oil passages that lead to lifters. Six, replace all lifters with GM Delphi lifters, reassemble top end. Dial it back in, see what happens…

Any better ideas??

[cadillac_al]

My .02. In a perfect world you can adjust the valves with the intake off and never touch them again for many many miles. Sometimes things don't work out perfectly and you get a lifter tick. Now I have to adjust them with the engine running and splash oil all over the place. It sucks but that is the only way I can trust a valve adjustment without removing the intake. If it still ticks after that then we have a problem. Then I have to decide if I can live with it and hope it goes away or should I investigate .

bottom line: I would do a hot adjustment while running and hope for the best.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

My .02. In a perfect world you can adjust the valves with the intake off and never touch them again for many many miles. Sometimes things don't work out perfectly and you get a lifter tick. Now I have to adjust them with the engine running and splash oil all over the place. It sucks but that is the only way I can trust a valve adjustment without removing the intake. If it still ticks after that then we have a problem. Then I have to decide if I can live with it and hope it goes away or should I investigate .

bottom line: I would do a hot adjustment while running and hope for the best.

Intake? Do you mean valve covers?

[geezer#99]

Rocker stud pulling out!

[homemade87]

Are you using the same nut on the rocker . Nut locking ability may be week and backing off . Had it happen to me .

[truckster]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Rocker stud pulling out!

Most likely scenario. Also possible the nuts were reused and one is loosening. (Sorry, Homemade, your post wasn't there when I wrote mine.)

[D.PASSMORE]

Thanks guys, the rocker nuts are poly locks on ARP screw in studs. I’ll take a closer look at the studs. One thing that I’m looking at is this rocker arm sets down on the stud. A little further. All set screws in the poly locks show two threads while the one in question shows about four threads. So it setting further down than than the rest. Hmmm...

[truckdude239]

sound slike the cam is starting to wipe out

[D.PASSMORE]

I’m going to look at that next week when I take the intake manifold off and peer down the hole, look at bottom of lifter and tip of lobe. Still no metal in the oil.

[GASoline71]

I don't think i'd wait another minute... I'd pull those lifters to check now. If it happens to be a cam eating itself and the lifters... it will put massive amounts of fine particulate in the oil the more you run it. I know pulling lifters means pulling the intake... But it would be better to do it now rather than later.

Gary

[D.PASSMORE]

Yeah, not driving it until I find the issue. Next Wensdsday it comes apart.
Out of town until Tuesday, but pulled dipstick before we left, motor still warm, ran the oil thru my thumb and index finger. No grit, clean oil. That is a good sign for whatever it might be.

[jaros44sr]

I'd say it's the machine's shop problem, call it good

[toolboxchev]

Lifter is collapsing, going bad, or the cam is wiping. Let us know what you find.

WHAT OIL ARE YOU USING? VERY IMPORTANT!

[D.PASSMORE]

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

Lifter is collapsing, going bad, or the cam is wiping. Let us know what you find.

WHAT OIL ARE YOU USING? VERY IMPORTANT!

"I just completed 1000 mile break-in, using Amsoil 30w break-in oil. Now, running Penn 10-30 motor oil with Napa Gold filter."

I'll dig into it tomorrow, hopefully I can ID the issues easily.

[D.PASSMORE]

Started the break down this morning, motor in truck, took valve covers off, started looking for the loose rockers. Found the two same culprits. They didn't seem that bad, bumped motor a few times to check all rockers, all seemed rather snug, no play. So, I start spinning pushrods with my fingers and these two would spin and then stop - tighten up. Removed rocker arms and this what I see. Push rods, these two tips worn down and reasonably shorter than another good working rocker arm setup. Also, measured against the Crower set that I purchased to R&R the top end. So, I'm gonna replace all these Summit Brand pushrods, two Harland Sharp
Rockers. Set lash on valves (Lightly - 1 turn). Fire it back up, see what happens.
BTW, I got a Q-Tip and swabbed the oil pool at the edge of the heads. Not grit what's so ever. Hopefully all is good inside.

[truckster]

It sounds promising. Hopefully you get a good outcome.

[B. W.]

Just curious, are the two short ones stamped 7.750"? From the pic they look waaaay short.

By the way, that's the best possible outcome!

[D.PASSMORE]

Originally Posted by B. W.

Just curious, are the two short ones stamped 7.750"? From the pic they look waaaay short.

By the way, that's the best possible outcome!

Yeah, I had the wrong set out, actually using 7.800. I had to re - measure with my caliper. Those other two are shot. Pulled all the others out and no issues with the rocker arms or pushrods. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[toolboxchev]

One suggestion, Dump that oil. No offense please I would like to see your repair come out all good.

I have done a bunch of internet studies on motor oil and have come to the conclusion that our year trucks with hyd flat tappets need 2 things in oil.

1. High Film strength
2. ZDDP

One without the other does not work, check out this when you have time:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

I had a stud pull during break in and now have over 70 k miles on that rebuild today. The bottom end was not touched.

Some criticize the data 540 produces yet my engine is proof that something I did is working. I would guess that bottom end has 270 k on it, someone neglected it before me. It is still running today.

All I can say is I am using this:

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil

It has both the zinc compounds and a high film strength.

My diagnosis may not be correct but there is metal in there somewhere, hopefully it comes out in the bottom of the pan. Oiling systems on our blocks have a bypass under high loads, it does not go through the filter.

[GASoline71]

Also, the particulate can (and will) embed into the bearing surfaces. Then you get a whole new set of probalems.

Gary

[D.PASSMORE]

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

One suggestion, Dump that oil. No offense please I would like to see your repair come out all good.

I have done a bunch of internet studies on motor oil and have come to the conclusion that our year trucks with hyd flat tappets need 2 things in oil.

1. High Film strength
2. ZDDP

One without the other does not work, check out this when you have time:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

I had a stud pull during break in and now have over 70 k miles on that rebuild today. The bottom end was not touched.

Some criticize the data 540 produces yet my engine is proof that something I did is working. I would guess that bottom end has 270 k on it, someone neglected it before me. It is still running today.

All I can say is I am using this:

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil

It has both the zinc compounds and a high film strength.

My diagnosis may not be correct but there is metal in there somewhere, hopefully it comes out in the bottom of the pan. Oiling systems on our blocks have a bypass under high loads, it does not go through the filter.

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Also, the particulate can (and will) embed into the bearing surfaces. Then you get a whole new set of probalems.

Gary

There will be a oil change and will cut filter too. I have researched the oil differences, using additive's etc... Also, have analyzed the 540 rat blog data. I came to the conclusion that I would continue using the Brad Penn product that I been using for the last decade, since I have never had a CAM or motor failure in my old Chevy's. I spec my own motors out with recommendations from the machinist or the engine builder. I buy and supply the parts and they do the work of assembling portions or all. In this case I had the shop do a complete re-build/assemble with all the parts I supplied. If the initial post was read, it runs great. I just have to figure out the repetitive tapping on those two valve set ups.
One of the reasons that I started this thread was to share my experience because the research that I conducted all pointed to a wiped cam lobe or lifter, really nothing else. There still might be a chance that it is, so once I reassemble the top-end, I will check rocker arm travel to ensure all are moving the same distance. That should be a good indication of a CAM problem.

[D.PASSMORE]

I've ran the motor for a 50 miles since I reassembled the top end Friday morning. I'm rather positive that the problem was the pushrods and rocker arm mating in the socket. No ticking or funky noises coming from valve train. Actually sound like a sewing machine idling at 750 RPM. A few things, not sure how that happened, either it happened at the machine shop or I might have tighten it down more than needed. Anyho, I replaced all the pushrods, two rockers, changed the oil, set the lash. All the rocker travels was pretty much the same, poly lock set screws had the same amount of thread when tighten down. On the oil change, I cut the filter, nothing really there for particles. I did notice that my magnetic drain plug was exchanged for a OE type. Not thrilled about that, so I dug around a found another magnetic one. So, my take on this problem is start with the easy stuff first, eliminate that area before you go as far to remove the CAM. That was my last option, R&R the CAM with all the fix'ins.
Well, I'm standing there smiling, listing to the motor. Thanking God, that was the solution. Look down the passenger side of the frame, notice a small antifreeze drip. Trace it back to my heater core box. Always something...

[truckster]

True, there's always something, but at least it's not a complete engine teardown. Congratulations on that.

[Nuckingfuts]

Good to hear things worked out!

[jaros44sr]

Good work, David. Glad it worked out for you, nice wrenching!!

Motor looks sweet