Jeep rolling off Black Bear Road

[1976gmc20]

Parking brake failed and/or not in gear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R5cLghSWGQ

Fortunately the lady was ejected and survived with serious injuries.

I guess maybe you don't want to wear seat belts off road ???

[Greasey Harley]

The dog was found a couple days later with no injuries.
incredible.
I'll bet you could pick that Wrangler up cheap right now.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Greasey Harley

The dog was found a couple days later with no injuries.
incredible.
I'll bet you could pick that Wrangler up cheap right now.

There were actually two dogs: one they found right away and the other several days later.

There are some pictures of the Wrangler where it finally landed on the San Miguel Sheriff facebook page. It looks like it has already been crushed!

I never tried to go over Black Bear. I did drive up that way one evening after work after having had supper in town. I don't think it was one-way back then but I didn't want to get up too far where I couldn't turn around with my K/20 pickup. It was getting dark and my understanding back in those days was that even a jeep had to back up every other switchback. I guess I got enough "four-wheeling" just getting to work every day as a logger. There is or was a shortcut from the ski area down to the highway just west of town that was not rough but was pretty narrow and precipitous.

Now of course it is extremely popular. From the recent videos that I've seen I wouldn't be afraid to take my old K/20 down the switchbacks if I still had it. But the K2500 visibility is just so poor that I would hesitate even though it's really no bigger.

[57taskforce]

My wife showed me that video the other day. One hell of a ride

[Orange Crate]

Does anyone have the back story on this? What started the roll?

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Orange Crate

Does anyone have the back story on this? What started the roll?

Gravity, apparently

The known fact seems to be that the driver got out of the jeep and it started rolling. He tried to catch it but it went over the edge with his girlfriend and dogs still inside.

There was a fatality a few years ago on a property less than a mile down the road from our house. A lady parked her car and it started rolling and she tried to catch it but somehow it ran over her. I didn't know anything about it until we heard the chopper.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by Orange Crate

Does anyone have the back story on this? What started the roll?

My guess she got close to the edge, to much speed, or a combo. I read up on the trail, and it is not for the faint hearted. When I used to bomb dirt roads a lot. I saw quite a few people who didn't know how to drive, and had no intentions of learning. I had taken my 2wd rcsb C10 with a posi, and off road tires high up into the hills. Every once in awhile I would see some idiot get stuck doing something dumb. Like taken a crew cab 4x4 lifted dually up dirt road switchbacks. Or people freeze from fear of heights.

The guy who caught it on the trail cam is lucky he didn't get t-boned there otherwise they may all of died. She was what 50 foot in front of him?

From the pics they appear to have the same vehicle, and judging by hers as it flew by she upgraded it. So she may of been as simple as she was hesitant to roll her tires against the mountain side.

Hopefully she is alright.

I change my opinion after reading further. Her dumb ass boynfriend needs to learn to drive, and get over scratching up his jeep.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust

My guess she got close to the edge, to much speed, or a combo. I read up on the trail, and it is not for the faint hearted. When I used to bomb dirt roads a lot. I saw quite a few people who didn't know how to drive, and had no intentions of learning. I had taken my 2wd rcsb C10 with a posi, and off road tires high up into the hills. Every once in awhile I would see some idiot get stuck doing something dumb. Like taken a crew cab 4x4 lifted dually up dirt road switchbacks. Or people freeze from fear of heights.

The guy who caught it on the trail cam is lucky he didn't get t-boned there otherwise they may all of died. She was what 50 foot in front of him?

From the pics they appear to have the same vehicle, and judging by hers as it flew by she upgraded it. So she may of been as simple as she was hesitant to roll her tires against the mountain side.

Hopefully she is alright.

I change my opinion after reading further. Her dumb ass boynfriend needs to learn to drive, and get over scratching up his jeep.

Not sure what you're talking about ????

The jeep started rolling and went over the edge after the driver got out. Failure of parking brake and/or driver to properly secure vehicle before exiting the vehicle.

It could have happened almost anywhere but in this case the surroundings and thus the results were spectacular. A half mile down the road from us a lady parked and got out and the car started rolling and she tried to catch it and it ran over her with fatal results.

[57taskforce]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/37023/...lack-bear-pass

[Orange Crate]

Wow, I've been over Black Bear a couple of times. I hope that woman recovers.

[57taskforce]

I live about 2 hours south of black bear. From what I heard today, she left the hospital today. Pretty crazy stuff. I work with a couple of guys who used to be sheriffs deputies who are in the “know”.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

I live about 2 hours south of black bear. From what I heard today, she left the hospital today. Pretty crazy stuff. I work with a couple of guys who used to be sheriffs deputies who are in the “know”.

Can she walk? I read that she had a spinal injury. I realize that this is technically private information.

Rumors can be nasty. My wife rolled her VW bug before we were married. I drove it home and parked it off in a corner at the resort where she worked. A couple days later I was gassing up my log truck and I heard a couple of tourist guys yammering about the car and that the girl driving it was paralyzed. I got mad and went over to them and informed them that she was my fiance and she was right over there hanging sheets on the clothesline

Strange thing is that I looked at the go fund me page a couple days ago and Suzie looks a lot like my wife did at that age!

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

Can she walk? I read that she had a spinal injury. I realize that this is technically private information.

Rumors can be nasty. My wife rolled her VW bug before we were married. I drove it home and parked it off in a corner at the resort where she worked. A couple days later I was gassing up my log truck and I heard a couple of tourist guys yammering about the car and that the girl driving it was paralyzed. I got mad and went over to them and informed them that she was my fiance and she was right over there hanging sheets on the clothesline

Strange thing is that I looked at the go fund me page a couple days ago and Suzie looks a lot like my wife did at that age!

That part I don’t know honestly

[Zoomad75]

I've got a jeep buddy that is itching to do Black Bear and the other well known trails in the area. We'll probably go next summer/fall. I've got no problem taking the Blazer over it. It's not the only high mountain shelf road with switchbacks in this state, it's just the most famous. Local tour companies have used full size trucks for years taking tourists over the pass, so taking a K5 even with the camper over it is completely doable.

The trail itself is only one way from the summit down to bridal veil falls. It wasn't always, but it's been like that for a long time now.

I will say this, having a granny low 5-speed and 241 low range gives me a little more comfort than the 700r4 on the downhill runs. Hydroboost brakes is another plus. I did Red Cone Pass a couple years back and the last section off the summit was so steep I didn't have enough gear or brakes to comfortably come down it. I made it, but it took a week to pull the seat cover out of my kiester.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

I've got a jeep buddy that is itching to do Black Bear and the other well known trails in the area. We'll probably go next summer/fall. I've got no problem taking the Blazer over it. It's not the only high mountain shelf road with switchbacks in this state, it's just the most famous. Local tour companies have used full size trucks for years taking tourists over the pass, so taking a K5 even with the camper over it is completely doable.

The trail itself is only one way from the summit down to bridal veil falls. It wasn't always, but it's been like that for a long time now.

I will say this, having a granny low 5-speed and 241 low range gives me a little more comfort than the 700r4 on the downhill runs. Hydroboost brakes is another plus. I did Red Cone Pass a couple years back and the last section off the summit was so steep I didn't have enough gear or brakes to comfortably come down it. I made it, but it took a week to pull the seat cover out of my kiester.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've been on some roads with my old K/20 that were as tight or tighter than Black Bear, but just not as spectacular or well known. Some probably not even on any maps! I had heard the stories about Black Bear years ago and figured I wasn't going to even think about trying that with a pickup. I don't know if it was narrower back then, but now that I've seen about a million videos of it on YT, I'm kind of sorry now that I didn't take a day off to go over it back in 1979 when I was logging at Telluride.

I figured out right away that the TH350 that I ordered in my new 1973 was not the best choice for off road contrary to what some people claimed. You sure need brakes even in L1 and low range coming down steep hills and better hope it's not slick! OTOH, I suppose it's an advantage to not have a clutch when backing up right next to those drop-offs.

There's a shelf road up above Tincup where back in the nearly wild west days folks would go pick rocks for fireplaces, etc. One day my boss sent me up there to get some stone in his 67/68 C/20 stepside with four speed. It is really narrow and a dead end to boot but there is a Y out there about a mile where you can turn around if you are really careful. I'm pretty sure that's as bad or worse than anything on Black Bear, and it is about 1500 feet of rock slide down to the bottom. I was up there in my pickup one time and had a flat tire!

[Zoomad75]

I've been over Tincup a lot and I don't think you can go anywhere off of the summit than the trail itself now. At least in a vehicle that is. I know you can hike up to the peak, but nothing else.

Mt. Antero is a trail Larry and I did 13 years ago. Summit is at 13k and most of the trail is exposed shelf switchbacks well above timberline. Oh and its two way since the trail is a up and back type.


That's my old K5 near the top crossing the scree field.


Here's an idea of the tightness of the trail itself and the elevation gain in the switchbacks alone.


Red Cone is a little different to climb and come back down. It's different as it does not go up or down via switchbacks. It goes up and over following the spine of the mountain. So the bonus is great drop off views from BOTH sides of the truck. It's ok going up but coming down from the summit is three distinct straight downhill sections that get worse as you go. The last section is the worst as it is like coming down on marbles with a lumpy uneven surface. I had my hands full so I neglected to take shots coming down.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

I've been over Tincup a lot and I don't think you can go anywhere off of the summit than the trail itself now. At least in a vehicle that is. I know you can hike up to the peak, but nothing else.

Mt. Antero is a trail Larry and I did 13 years ago. Summit is at 13k and most of the trail is exposed shelf switchbacks well above timberline. Oh and its two way since the trail is a up and back type...

I was talking about up above the town of Tincup. Tincup Pass used to be real easy, just a rough dirt road, but I guess it has eroded and/or been tore up in the past 30 years. Summer of 1989* I took the wife and kids up there one evening in my 2wd pickup, and we met a young couple in a 69 Impala coming over from the east. That first little stretch down the west side was a bit rough for them.

I never went up Mt. Antero since we spent most of the time on the west side. Living and working up in the mountains you just get busy and don't really get out to play all that much. And I spent so much time being banged around on cats and skidders that 4 wheeling sort of lost its appeal for a long time. I preferred to just go for a hike. After my wife wrecked her Bug, for a while we used it as a dune buggy on jeep trails. It did practically everything but just couldn't climb the steep hills at high altitude. We couldn't get it up Flag Mt so we just drove back down to the saddle and hiked up Italian.


*PS: actually I think it was in 1989 when some kids rolled a jeep off a trail on the south side of Fairview Peak. There were fatalities. I didn't know them but I knew people who knew them.

[Zoomad75]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

I was talking about up above the town of Tincup. Tincup Pass used to be real easy, just a rough dirt road, but I guess it has eroded and/or been tore up in the past 30 years. Summer of 1989* I took the wife and kids up there one evening in my 2wd pickup, and we met a young couple in a 69 Impala coming over from the east. That first little stretch down the west side was a bit rough for them.

I never went up Mt. Antero since we spent most of the time on the west side. Living and working up in the mountains you just get busy and don't really get out to play all that much. And I spent so much time being banged around on cats and skidders that 4 wheeling sort of lost its appeal for a long time. I preferred to just go for a hike. After my wife wrecked her Bug, for a while we used it as a dune buggy on jeep trails. It did practically everything but just couldn't climb the steep hills at high altitude. We couldn't get it up Flag Mt so we just drove back down to the saddle and hiked up Italian.


*PS: actually I think it was in 1989 when some kids rolled a jeep off a trail on the south side of Fairview Peak. There were fatalities. I didn't know them but I knew people who knew them.

Ah, the town of Tincup...Duh. Didn't think about the town as we usually drive through on the way to Taylor to hook up with Taylor pass or Reno Creek. Now the trail of Tincup at least to me is still pretty much rough dirt road. There are still some rougher parts, but for the most part a stock 4wd truck could handle it with a few scrapes on the underbelly. It's not for crossovers though. We came across a Mazda a couple of years ago within sight of the summit coming from the west side. We all laughed like hell when we saw it. Beat to hell is the best way to describe it.


Some guys in a Toyota ran into us at the summit and gave us the scoop. The driver was trying to get to Salida and some local in Taylor said Tincup pass was the most direct route (Cottonwood pass was closed then as they were paving it). He had walked to their campsite on the east side below the summit asking for help to get a call out to get a tow truck up there. I'm pretty sure he was going to be in for a very expensive tow out of there.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

I've been over Tincup a lot and I don't think you can go anywhere off of the summit than the trail itself now. At least in a vehicle that is. I know you can hike up to the peak, but nothing else.

Mt. Antero is a trail Larry and I did 13 years ago. Summit is at 13k and most of the trail is exposed shelf switchbacks well above timberline. Oh and its two way since the trail is a up and back type.


That's my old K5 near the top crossing the scree field.


Here's an idea of the tightness of the trail itself and the elevation gain in the switchbacks alone.


Red Cone is a little different to climb and come back down. It's different as it does not go up or down via switchbacks. It goes up and over following the spine of the mountain. So the bonus is great drop off views from BOTH sides of the truck. It's ok going up but coming down from the summit is three distinct straight downhill sections that get worse as you go. The last section is the worst as it is like coming down on marbles with a lumpy uneven surface. I had my hands full so I neglected to take shots coming down.

So I watched some YT videos and it looks like Webster Pass itself is pretty easy - mostly just a dirt road that a 2wd pickup could handle?

We've got a 2016 K2500Hd rclb with a Leer high roof topper set up for camping/sleeping. Based on previous experience, I think I could take it most places without much problem, but I don't want to beat it up too much nor scare my wife (even though we did lots of jeep trails long ago).

Since she still has family in C.S. I guess we will be wandering down there once a year or so (I'd rather just explore MT). So just cataloging some interesting excursions coming and going.

[Zoomad75]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Really thought it was going to be the Jeep taking the video that was going over the edge. The red one caught me off guard!

That video was giving me the willies when things were going right! The conversation after between the driver and his GF was probably not all that great either.

Zoomad - "It's ok going up but coming down from the summit is three distinct straight downhill sections that get worse as you go. The last section is the worst as it is like coming down on marbles with a lumpy uneven surface. I had my hands full so I neglected to take shots coming down."

There isn't a bucket big enough to hold all of the "nopes" that I'd have for that! Just the thought of that downhill.... yeah, no way.

I went into that one somewhat blind. I knew it was a steep climb and decent, but it was a little more than I expected. But here's a good video taken from my mirror mount. Still does not translate how steep the last section was. I was on the brake pedal with both feet, legs fully extended, sliding under my seat belt as I was a little shy of being vertical as the truck was going down. Even with both feet clamping down on the brake pedal the tires were still sliding on the loose dirt. I knew Hydroboost needed to be in my future from that point.
https://youtu.be/dEAWtOgqQ4A

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

So I watched some YT videos and it looks like Webster Pass itself is pretty easy - mostly just a dirt road that a 2wd pickup could handle?

We've got a 2016 K2500Hd rclb with a Leer high roof topper set up for camping/sleeping. Based on previous experience, I think I could take it most places without much problem, but I don't want to beat it up too much nor scare my wife (even though we did lots of jeep trails long ago).

Since she still has family in C.S. I guess we will be wandering down there once a year or so (I'd rather just explore MT). So just cataloging some interesting excursions coming and going.

Webster isn't bad, but it's not always open. You can see the junction with Webster in my video above near the end. There's always a snow bank right at the summit of Webster. Depending on the previous winter's snowfall and how the summer temps have been the snow may still be there until August. That video was taken in July. No chance we could have got through it as it was over 8 ft deep on the trail side down from the summit. It forced us to go all the way down to Breckenridge come back through Fairplay.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

I went into that one somewhat blind. I knew it was a steep climb and decent, but it was a little more than I expected. But here's a good video taken from my mirror mount. Still does not translate how steep the last section was. I was on the brake pedal with both feet, legs fully extended, sliding under my seat belt as I was a little shy of being vertical as the truck was going down. Even with both feet clamping down on the brake pedal the tires were still sliding on the loose dirt. I knew Hydroboost needed to be in my future from that point.
https://youtu.be/dEAWtOgqQ4A



Webster isn't bad, but it's not always open. You can see the junction with Webster in my video above near the end. There's always a snow bank right at the summit of Webster. Depending on the previous winter's snowfall and how the summer temps have been the snow may still be there until August. That video was taken in July. No chance we could have got through it as it was over 8 ft deep on the trail side down from the summit. It forced us to go all the way down to Breckenridge come back through Fairplay.

That's why I hate automatics in 4wd. I figured that out about two weeks after I bought my brand new 1973 K20 with TH350. It's all okay until the wheels start locking up.

So now I have yet another one but it had to be so my wife could also drive it. This 6 speed is different, though. I haven't had it off road, but just going down my driveway you can leave it in Drive and keep your foot off the gas and it will just idle down real slow, instead of running away like every other automatic we have or had. Same out on the road, take your foot off the gas going down most hills and it will slow right down almost like a manual. I'm almost liking it

Obviously many of those roads aren't open until July/August. First time I tried to go over Tincup Pass there was a drift like that right below the top so I had to drive back down to BV and go over Cottonwood like a sane person

Not "four wheeling" but the last logging/trucking job I did was up off of Old Cochetopa Pass. There was an insane logging road cut in there by the FS. It wound around nice and easy for miles and then suddenly went up this really steep loose rock hill. I couldn't load my trailer so going up empty was spin/catch spin/catch in 2nd gear all the way. The product was big green poles and coming down loaded in 1st gear I had to stand on the brakes with all my strength just to hold it back and stopping on the grade was out of the question. Just hoped I didn't meet some hunters insisting on uphill right of way! It was a contract job, so much per piece delivered, and the guy who had the timber sale couldn't understand why I didn't load more logs Yeah, a diesel and a jake brake maybe ...

[57taskforce]

Nice! I’ve never done black bear or tin cup but I have done a bunch of the trails around silverton. I need to go check out some of the trails up by telluride next year.

[1976gmc20]

I'm pretty sure he was going to be in for a very expensive tow out of there.

Hah! A little far to go for Matt's Off Road Recovery

I can't figure why they would keep going ???? Coming up the west side it gets worse and worse and they could turn around anytime they want. Those poor "kids" in the 69 Impala really did get a shock. They drove up the east side no problem at all and by the time they started down the west side they couldn't get back up again and just had to keep going. We met them somewhere above the switchback. Their car was all beat up and she was just about in tears. They were much relieved when I told them they were past the bad part and would be fine the rest of the way down. I think we have a picture somewhere of their car parked down by the store later that evening.

BTW, at that time we actually had a 4wd pickup with a camper but it was parked as part of our summer accommodations (or maybe just storage). So I thought nothing of taking the short stepside C/10 with the family for an evening drive up to the top of Tincup Pass and back.

The ridge between West and Middle Willow Creeks is just a maze of jeep trails, some just a woodsy 2-track and others more "interesting." Now I guess everybody just calls them "ATV trails"

One time before I went to Alaska, I went out for a drive up there with a couple friends in my K/20 pickup. He was native to the area and used to take me and others all sorts of places in his CJ5. We were up there somewhere and he said that we could take a turn and go down to the creek and back down to the valley. So that was cool since I had never been down that way yet. We get about halfway down and there is this really tight switchback! "Oh, I forgot about this one," he says It was in the timber and not a long fall down but it was all on an angle, not mostly flat like the turns on Black Bear. Also it was almost dark by then. I backed up five or six times and we made it just fine

[Zoomad75]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

Hah! A little far to go for Matt's Off Road Recovery

I can't figure why they would keep going ???? Coming up the west side it gets worse and worse and they could turn around anytime they want. Those poor "kids" in the 69 Impala really did get a shock. They drove up the east side no problem at all and by the time they started down the west side they couldn't get back up again and just had to keep going. We met them somewhere above the switchback. Their car was all beat up and she was just about in tears. They were much relieved when I told them they were past the bad part and would be fine the rest of the way down. I think we have a picture somewhere of their car parked down by the store later that evening.

BTW, at that time we actually had a 4wd pickup with a camper but it was parked as part of our summer accommodations (or maybe just storage). So I thought nothing of taking the short stepside C/10 with the family for an evening drive up to the top of Tincup Pass and back.

The ridge between West and Middle Willow Creeks is just a maze of jeep trails, some just a woodsy 2-track and others more "interesting." Now I guess everybody just calls them "ATV trails"

One time before I went to Alaska, I went out for a drive up there with a couple friends in my K/20 pickup. He was native to the area and used to take me and others all sorts of places in his CJ5. We were up there somewhere and he said that we could take a turn and go down to the creek and back down to the valley. So that was cool since I had never been down that way yet. We get about halfway down and there is this really tight switchback! "Oh, I forgot about this one," he says It was in the timber and not a long fall down but it was all on an angle, not mostly flat like the turns on Black Bear. Also it was almost dark by then. I backed up five or six times and we made it just fine

The Mazda was far to beat to continue. All four tires were flat, wheels hammered on the rocks. The rocker panels were beaten to the point they were hitting the doors and making it hard to open. My buddy poked his head underneath and the entire underbelly was tore up, exhaust, fuel tank and engine cradle. It physically was done.

ATV's are the only thing I don't like about the area now. On any summer weekend it's crawling with side by sides and quads. The county made it legal to drive the ATV's on the roads/trails above St. Elmo. So one can park the trailer on the side of the road at St. Elmo and link up Hancock pass, Cumberland pass and Tincup for a complete loop of the area. Plus all the smaller trails outside of Taylor and Tincup. I'd be ok with it if most of them had even the slightest amount of trail etiquette. Sadly most of them don't, they come in from out of state and drive like maniacs because they can carry way more speed and get pissed when a bunch of full size trucks and Jeeps are taking it slow in the rough stuff.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

The Mazda was far to beat to continue. All four tires were flat, wheels hammered on the rocks. The rocker panels were beaten to the point they were hitting the doors and making it hard to open. My buddy poked his head underneath and the entire underbelly was tore up, exhaust, fuel tank and engine cradle. It physically was done.

ATV's are the only thing I don't like about the area now. On any summer weekend it's crawling with side by sides and quads. The county made it legal to drive the ATV's on the roads/trails above St. Elmo. So one can park the trailer on the side of the road at St. Elmo and link up Hancock pass, Cumberland pass and Tincup for a complete loop of the area. Plus all the smaller trails outside of Taylor and Tincup. I'd be ok with it if most of them had even the slightest amount of trail etiquette. Sadly most of them don't, they come in from out of state and drive like maniacs because they can carry way more speed and get pissed when a bunch of full size trucks and Jeeps are taking it slow in the rough stuff.

Our friends in Colorado have a nice place just down the road from Tincup. Now it's summer only (mostly) since he retired and they have a more civilized winter place in Steamboat. Anyway he spent practically his whole life in TP and doesn't want to give it up, but he says that in the summer the ATVs and motorcycles scream up and down the valley all day long.

I haven't been back up there since we left 20++ years ago, and I don't know if I even want to because I want to remember it the way it was, though I'd like to visit them some summer/fall now that we have our pickup & topper. We did visit once at their place in Steamboat. They came up here once a few years ago and were amazed that we all could walk up the county road a mile and back and not have even a single car pass.