a Tuff(old72) Deal - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Woody · 03-21-2003, 02:05 PM

Well I really didn't want to post this but Tuffold72 (Ray Szubart) has left me no choice. Back in Nov. of last year I bought an intake and HEI from Ray. They never got here. Lost in the post office some where between OR and KY. I waited and waited. So finally about January he went to the post office and filed a claim and collected the insurance $$. I have been trying to get my money back ever since. I have been nice about it and even dropped $15 off of the $130 I sent Ray. I have called him once a week for the last 5 weeks asking for my money. Every time he has made some excuse or told me it was sent out a couple of days ago. Tuesday of this week he assured me once again that he had gone to the post office and got a money order and sent it on the 11th of March. It hasn't arrived and wasn't in today's mail...10 days for a letter to get from Or to KY....I doubt it. He made the offer of Western Unioning the money to me, took down all the info needed and nothing. I made 2 trips to the WU checking on the money...NOT THERE. Now he won't answer my calls, has call blocked my cell phone so I can't bother him about the money any more. He won't read his PM that I have sent. So here I sit $130 and 4.5 months later without my money and without the parts. Ray now has the insurance money he insured the package for as well as my $130.

I really hated to post this but be warned that dealing with Tuffold72 (Ray Szubart) is not a good idea.

72shadetree · 03-21-2003, 02:14 PM

man that bites thanks for the hads up I WANT BUY FROM HIM

bigvinnie · 03-21-2003, 02:18 PM

thanks for the warning, I will steer clear of this fool...

**fine69** · 03-21-2003, 02:27 PM

Sorry to hear that Woody. But thanks for the heads up on this boardmember.

O'l Buck · 03-21-2003, 02:37 PM

Man, why do people do crap like that? I can understand parts getting lost in the mail, but collecting on the insurance and refusing to refund the money?.......I won't be buying anything from him either. Thanks for the heads up.

72BLAZERDUDE · 03-21-2003, 02:55 PM

That really sucks. It seems you cant trust anybody these days. If your not a man of your word what kind of man are you.

Woody · 03-21-2003, 03:21 PM

72BLAZERDUDE, You said it! Your only as good as your word! I'm a Boyscout Leader and Honesty is one thing we preach. Even when you are wrong, being honest and admitting your mistake will make you a better person.

FINE69, The old 68 C-20 Still running great....I just need to put a higher gear under it. The campers are back to back on wooden stands about 7' apart and look good out at the farm. I'll try to send you a picture sometime.

69 Short Fleet · 03-21-2003, 05:13 PM

Sorry to hear that Woody, especially from a fellow board member!!, Doug

gman · 03-21-2003, 06:04 PM

How pathetic! What a shame!

*Randy70C-10* · 03-21-2003, 07:15 PM

Call him from a payphone.

Tuffold72 · 03-21-2003, 08:35 PM

I was doing good with this until I read this mail fraud crap. First of all I sent your package and you know that as there was a tracking number. Am I responsible that it made it to you after it left my hands? NO... Did I get insurance for this? Yes a wopping 50 bucks. Did you pay extra for insurance? NO...The only reason I got insurance was so I could provide you with a tracking number. So tell me this, why should I return your money when I sent out the parts? hmm, to be resonable I sent another m/o to just get this off my back. But this one seems to have disappeared to. I am not home were I can recieve your calls, so I have to listen to 50 damned messages on the machine about shame and honesty. Well here is some matter of fact honesty. I am going to mail you another M/o for the 50.00 insurance I bought on the package + 25.00$ to make it almost a 50/50 thing. Thats resonable.. I already canceled the other so if it turns up or someone trys to cash it there will be a problem. I am really sorry the mail let you down, but that is out of my hands. So here is the deal like it or not, if I get another message plugging up my phone and line with BS, this is void and your out. I will send the M/O when I get to it. It might be monday or better. This also will have a tracking number so I can watch it.

crazy4chevs · 03-21-2003, 10:42 PM

should have insured it for more thats what i do. I double the selling price and i pay the insurance. If any thing happens to it i can send a refund and still get what i wanted, no harm no foul.

71 BIG RED · 03-21-2003, 11:25 PM

He sent you the money; he didn't receive the parts. You owe him the entire amount. Your inability to properly insure and track the purchased merchandise should not constitute a concession on the buyer's part. I would not do business with you.

nu2-72 · 03-21-2003, 11:36 PM

Anyone on here that I have done business with can tell you that I send the #'s from the Postal Money order the day it is purchased and is sent the same day. It is not a tracking # but is my assurance that I have done as promosed. I have had excellent results with the people on this board with one exception.
Several people now beat me to the shipper and send me items before I even pay. They are trusting of me and I will not break that trust.
My word is backed by my actions.
Thanks everyone that I have done business with and I am saddened when deals like this occur. I hope it works out.

greasemonkey · 03-21-2003, 11:42 PM

Things like this is exactly why I do not buy from people I do not know, or even off eBay. I will only buy parts from people that are reputable vendors (on this board) or search locally. Sure you might get good deals sometimes but when something goes bad...

GMC Jim · 03-22-2003, 12:05 AM

I totally agree with 71 Big Red.... He says it plain and simple.AND...all this yapping about "plugging up the phone" and "send the M/O when I get to it" shows the attitude of one that no one should do business with !@

Tuffold72 · 03-22-2003, 12:59 AM

The item did have a tracking number. And it was shipped. And the number was provided. This is a screwed situation and feelings are a little hot and blown out of porportion. I personaly do not have a problem with giving whats do. But 36 messages in 2 hours is a bit ridiculose, and being called a fraud didnt help. You wont have to worry about bizz with me cause its not worth this to me. But it still doesnt make sense why I need to bare the full brunt of the losses here. I sold the items, shipped them, were did I go wrong? I can understand the need to over insure the items as far as the months of waiting, it was just resolved with the p.o for the claim. a few weeks ago. This probably isnt the place to even be talking about this, but I didnt bring it up.

Blue Beard · 03-22-2003, 09:53 AM

I've been on both sides of that fence.....

The package was underinsured, should be insured at the purchase amount or higher..............

If in doubt send it registered mail.........The reason I say that..........

I've had UPS drop off items at my door....no signiture is required unless the shipper requests it..............

I have a neighbor about three blocks north of me with the same address, different street.............and the mail truck delivers in a hurry, reads the address wrong and the package is gone..............

I've taken mail to their home for this reason...........but there again is honesty...................

Be ware if you ship USPS that they don't like paying off on Insurance. You have to get both party's involved to fill out forms to collect...............

I've shipped items that the tracking number said it arrived...............may have or not...............maybe to the wrong address................but here again, my word and honesty is questioned by the buyer..............I covered things without a lot of problems.................If its a pricey piece it needs to be over insured for both party's concern and trouble.............

Just my two cents....................

*dtlilly* · 03-22-2003, 12:27 PM

Woody,

Thanks for the post and the heads up on this character. It is interesting to read TUFFOLD72 responce. He blames everyone else but himself. What a fraud, to bad he can't stand up like a man, and make things right to you, I guess he has no conscience or moral up bringing. His mom must be real proud of him.

You shouldn't have to absorb half the cost. Your end of the contract was fulfilled when he cashed your check. But I guess getting anything back from this scum, is better than a poke in the eye. I would even consider reporting him to the FTC.

**67sss** · 03-22-2003, 12:29 PM

Insurance- working for a freight company I would like to say that if you ever see RVNX on your shippping papers you're SOL. This means that the mechandise is valued at $.05 on $100, so only way to beat the system(cheat

) is to overstate the value of your item. Oh yea L O T S A paperwork to file a claim.

mtdave2 · 03-22-2003, 02:30 PM

i think we need a board black list. let the admin decide after hearing both sides of the story, then put them on if they think they should be..

i like to think there is a brotherhood (and sister too) here. but there is always a few who ruin things for all.. its too bad.

HotRod929 · 03-22-2003, 03:09 PM

Or what about a feedback system kinda like the one ebay has that sits next to your name? I think that would work very well.

HotRod

casey · 03-22-2003, 04:11 PM

sorry to here about this woody, hope you guys can resolve this, even if it is the mails fault, you have a obligation to your customer, Myself personlly, if you go by your gut instint you know you have to send the money back, sorry you have to take the loss tuffold72 but your responseable to get the parts to the buyer, I don't know either party involed here, just the way I see it.

chiphayes · 03-22-2003, 04:12 PM

hey,it depends on how agressive you want to be,or just take it as a lesson learned,i think just about everyone has had this situation.but,6 months ago i bought sme items from e-bay,i sent the guy the money,he said he got the money,4 months later he was just to busy to ship them,kept saying he would,DO IT TOMMORROW?.SO ,i drove from indiana to florida,and knocked on his door, the look on his face,when i told him who i was,was indiscribable,he just about soiled himself.HAH!i got my parts and half my gas money.i bet he doesnt screw anybody over for a while.may sound childish,but i was tired of being.ripped off and it felt good.do what you want and good luck.

03-21-2003, 02:05 PM	#1
Woody Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Georgetown, KY, USA Posts: 631	a Tuff(old72) Deal Well I really didn't want to post this but Tuffold72 (Ray Szubart) has left me no choice. Back in Nov. of last year I bought an intake and HEI from Ray. They never got here. Lost in the post office some where between OR and KY. I waited and waited. So finally about January he went to the post office and filed a claim and collected the insurance $$. I have been trying to get my money back ever since. I have been nice about it and even dropped $15 off of the $130 I sent Ray. I have called him once a week for the last 5 weeks asking for my money. Every time he has made some excuse or told me it was sent out a couple of days ago. Tuesday of this week he assured me once again that he had gone to the post office and got a money order and sent it on the 11th of March. It hasn't arrived and wasn't in today's mail...10 days for a letter to get from Or to KY....I doubt it. He made the offer of Western Unioning the money to me, took down all the info needed and nothing. I made 2 trips to the WU checking on the money...NOT THERE. Now he won't answer my calls, has call blocked my cell phone so I can't bother him about the money any more. He won't read his PM that I have sent. So here I sit $130 and 4.5 months later without my money and without the parts. Ray now has the insurance money he insured the package for as well as my $130. I really hated to post this but be warned that dealing with Tuffold72 (Ray Szubart) is not a good idea.

03-21-2003, 02:14 PM	#2
72shadetree KEEP ON TRUCKING Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: martinsville va Posts: 2,563	man that bites thanks for the hads up I WANT BUY FROM HIM __________________ 72 cheyenne 2wd lwb 71 k20 sons bassett va

03-21-2003, 02:18 PM	#3
bigvinnie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: escondido, ca 92026 Posts: 1,222	thanks for the warning, I will steer clear of this fool... __________________ '72 short step, 350, 700R4, tilt, ps, pdb, a/c, lowered coils, etc., other work in progress... San Diego, CA 72 Stepside Project

03-21-2003, 02:27 PM	#4
fine69 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Urbana,Ohio,USA Posts: 4,618	Sorry to hear that Woody. But thanks for the heads up on this boardmember. __________________ 2008 Chevy HHR 1/2 panel. 1949 Chevy Panel truck(just sittin, waiting) Board member #6

03-21-2003, 02:37 PM	#5
O'l Buck Recovering Truck Driver Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Orleans, NE USA Posts: 1,883	Man, why do people do crap like that? I can understand parts getting lost in the mail, but collecting on the insurance and refusing to refund the money?.......I won't be buying anything from him either. Thanks for the heads up. __________________ 67 K-20 350, SM465, Eaton rear, 4.56 no spin option 00 Dodge 2500 4x4, 24V cummins, 5 speed Chad South Central Nebraska

03-21-2003, 02:55 PM	#6
72BLAZERDUDE Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: WATAUGA,TX Posts: 660	That really sucks. It seems you cant trust anybody these days. If your not a man of your word what kind of man are you. __________________ 72 2wd 307/AT/AC/TILT WHEEL 78 JIMMY HIGH SIERRA

03-21-2003, 03:21 PM	#7
Woody Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Georgetown, KY, USA Posts: 631	72BLAZERDUDE, You said it! Your only as good as your word! I'm a Boyscout Leader and Honesty is one thing we preach. Even when you are wrong, being honest and admitting your mistake will make you a better person. FINE69, The old 68 C-20 Still running great....I just need to put a higher gear under it. The campers are back to back on wooden stands about 7' apart and look good out at the farm. I'll try to send you a picture sometime.

03-21-2003, 05:13 PM	#8
69 Short Fleet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kelowna B.C. Canada Posts: 1,086	Sorry to hear that Woody, especially from a fellow board member!!, Doug

03-21-2003, 06:04 PM	#9
gman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Ogden, Utah Posts: 290	How pathetic! What a shame! __________________ 72 Chevy SWB Custom Deluxe K10, 350/SM465, PS, PB, Fact. Air 2000 Harley...Wide Glide

03-21-2003, 07:15 PM	#10
Randy70C-10 Account Suspended Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A. Posts: 15,320	Call him from a payphone.

03-21-2003, 08:35 PM	#11
Tuffold72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 69	I was doing good with this until I read this mail fraud crap. First of all I sent your package and you know that as there was a tracking number. Am I responsible that it made it to you after it left my hands? NO... Did I get insurance for this? Yes a wopping 50 bucks. Did you pay extra for insurance? NO...The only reason I got insurance was so I could provide you with a tracking number. So tell me this, why should I return your money when I sent out the parts? hmm, to be resonable I sent another m/o to just get this off my back. But this one seems to have disappeared to. I am not home were I can recieve your calls, so I have to listen to 50 damned messages on the machine about shame and honesty. Well here is some matter of fact honesty. I am going to mail you another M/o for the 50.00 insurance I bought on the package + 25.00$ to make it almost a 50/50 thing. Thats resonable.. I already canceled the other so if it turns up or someone trys to cash it there will be a problem. I am really sorry the mail let you down, but that is out of my hands. So here is the deal like it or not, if I get another message plugging up my phone and line with BS, this is void and your out. I will send the M/O when I get to it. It might be monday or better. This also will have a tracking number so I can watch it.

03-21-2003, 10:42 PM	#12
crazy4chevs Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Des Moines WA. (Kent, area) Posts: 668	should have insured it for more thats what i do. I double the selling price and i pay the insurance. If any thing happens to it i can send a refund and still get what i wanted, no harm no foul. __________________ 70 chev c10 swb fleet 72 grill, sb 400, 2/4 drop. 68 chev c10 swb fleet Early classic 4/6 drop with 4wheel disc brakes 9"rear 67-8 buckets tilt and A/C Classic GM Truck Club of Washington .

03-21-2003, 11:25 PM	#13
71 BIG RED Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Elko,Nevada Posts: 22	He sent you the money; he didn't receive the parts. You owe him the entire amount. Your inability to properly insure and track the purchased merchandise should not constitute a concession on the buyer's part. I would not do business with you. __________________ big red 71

03-21-2003, 11:36 PM	#14
nu2-72 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Amazonia, Mo. USA Posts: 2,821	Anyone on here that I have done business with can tell you that I send the #'s from the Postal Money order the day it is purchased and is sent the same day. It is not a tracking # but is my assurance that I have done as promosed. I have had excellent results with the people on this board with one exception. Several people now beat me to the shipper and send me items before I even pay. They are trusting of me and I will not break that trust. My word is backed by my actions. Thanks everyone that I have done business with and I am saddened when deals like this occur. I hope it works out. __________________ 72 3/4 4x4 350 4spd 72 3/4 4x4 350 auto 2004 Duramax Silverado 4x4 2006 Duramax Crew cab 4x4 2010 Harley Ultra Limited 2011 Harley Street Glide

03-21-2003, 11:42 PM	#15
greasemonkey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pace, FL Posts: 2,155	Things like this is exactly why I do not buy from people I do not know, or even off eBay. I will only buy parts from people that are reputable vendors (on this board) or search locally. Sure you might get good deals sometimes but when something goes bad... __________________ 1942 Master Deluxe 1969 C/10 1985 Blazer CUCV 1987 Jimmy 2004 Tahoe 2005 Silverado 1500 2005 Silverado 3500



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03-22-2003, 12:05 AM	#16
GMC Jim Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 901	I totally agree with 71 Big Red.... He says it plain and simple.AND...all this yapping about "plugging up the phone" and "send the M/O when I get to it" shows the attitude of one that no one should do business with !@ __________________ '71 GMC;fleetside;PB/PS/AC/CC/402 Eng./Custom Paint/110,000act miles/3 fuel tanks(52gal).

03-22-2003, 12:59 AM	#17
Tuffold72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 69	The item did have a tracking number. And it was shipped. And the number was provided. This is a screwed situation and feelings are a little hot and blown out of porportion. I personaly do not have a problem with giving whats do. But 36 messages in 2 hours is a bit ridiculose, and being called a fraud didnt help. You wont have to worry about bizz with me cause its not worth this to me. But it still doesnt make sense why I need to bare the full brunt of the losses here. I sold the items, shipped them, were did I go wrong? I can understand the need to over insure the items as far as the months of waiting, it was just resolved with the p.o for the claim. a few weeks ago. This probably isnt the place to even be talking about this, but I didnt bring it up.

03-22-2003, 09:53 AM	#18
Blue Beard Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 8,834	I've been on both sides of that fence..... The package was underinsured, should be insured at the purchase amount or higher.............. If in doubt send it registered mail.........The reason I say that.......... I've had UPS drop off items at my door....no signiture is required unless the shipper requests it.............. I have a neighbor about three blocks north of me with the same address, different street.............and the mail truck delivers in a hurry, reads the address wrong and the package is gone.............. I've taken mail to their home for this reason...........but there again is honesty................... Be ware if you ship USPS that they don't like paying off on Insurance. You have to get both party's involved to fill out forms to collect............... I've shipped items that the tracking number said it arrived...............may have or not...............maybe to the wrong address................but here again, my word and honesty is questioned by the buyer..............I covered things without a lot of problems.................If its a pricey piece it needs to be over insured for both party's concern and trouble............. Just my two cents.................... __________________ 1970 Chev CST 2003 Harley Fatboy 1975 Chevrolet Step Van 1956 Chev Bel Air 1977 Blazer 2WD For Sale $3000.00 1978 Blazer 2WD For Sale $7000.00 1978 Silverado 2005 Monte Carlo

03-22-2003, 12:27 PM	#19
dtlilly Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Shadow of Lambeau Field Posts: 5,597	Woody, Thanks for the post and the heads up on this character. It is interesting to read TUFFOLD72 responce. He blames everyone else but himself. What a fraud, to bad he can't stand up like a man, and make things right to you, I guess he has no conscience or moral up bringing. His mom must be real proud of him. You shouldn't have to absorb half the cost. Your end of the contract was fulfilled when he cashed your check. But I guess getting anything back from this scum, is better than a poke in the eye. I would even consider reporting him to the FTC.

03-22-2003, 12:29 PM	#20
67sss Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mt. Vernon, WA.. Posts: 2,322	Insurance- working for a freight company I would like to say that if you ever see RVNX on your shippping papers you're SOL. This means that the mechandise is valued at $.05 on $100, so only way to beat the system(cheat ) is to overstate the value of your item. Oh yea L O T S A paperwork to file a claim.

03-22-2003, 02:30 PM	#21
mtdave2 newly minted old timer Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Hudson WI Posts: 3,507	i think we need a board black list. let the admin decide after hearing both sides of the story, then put them on if they think they should be.. i like to think there is a brotherhood (and sister too) here. but there is always a few who ruin things for all.. its too bad. __________________ ____________________________________________ 72 c20 longhorn 65k org miles and counting! 69 k10 Suburban

03-22-2003, 03:09 PM	#22
HotRod929 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bondurant, IA but in Worcester, MA for school Posts: 767	Or what about a feedback system kinda like the one ebay has that sits next to your name? I think that would work very well. HotRod __________________ 1970 Chevy C-20 350 V-8 Turbo 350 w/ shift kit Dana 60 w/ 4.10 gears AND Powr-Loc POSI New Additions: Summit Headers 135amp alternator Proform HEI Edelbrock 1406 600cfm carb Sunpro Tach Powr-Loc POSI Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake MSD 6A Ignition Box AIM: HotRod929 Visit My Site: http://1970chevy.netfirms.com/

03-22-2003, 04:11 PM	#23
casey Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kelowna B.C. Canada Posts: 2,048	sorry to here about this woody, hope you guys can resolve this, even if it is the mails fault, you have a obligation to your customer, Myself personlly, if you go by your gut instint you know you have to send the money back, sorry you have to take the loss tuffold72 but your responseable to get the parts to the buyer, I don't know either party involed here, just the way I see it.

03-22-2003, 04:12 PM	#24
chiphayes Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: indiana Posts: 186	hey,it depends on how agressive you want to be,or just take it as a lesson learned,i think just about everyone has had this situation.but,6 months ago i bought sme items from e-bay,i sent the guy the money,he said he got the money,4 months later he was just to busy to ship them,kept saying he would,DO IT TOMMORROW?.SO ,i drove from indiana to florida,and knocked on his door, the look on his face,when i told him who i was,was indiscribable,he just about soiled himself.HAH!i got my parts and half my gas money.i bet he doesnt screw anybody over for a while.may sound childish,but i was tired of being.ripped off and it felt good.do what you want and good luck.

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