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Old 04-27-2020, 12:41 PM   #1
Daubs
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Need help with my painting plan

Making progress on the Green Truck.

This truck will be a driver. I want a rust-free, solid, good looking truck to drive on weekends and occasionally to work. It will be garage kept from now on.

Keeping the same color scheme, dark olive and white. Front clip is coming off, and the bed will be off. I do not think I will be removing the cab. I am using paint-rust stripper disk, wire wheel, flap disk on angle grinder to remove rust and paint where needed. I'm not media blasting frame or sheet-metal.

Here is what I need advice on:

Primer: Some of the sheet metal will be taken down to bare metal to get rid of surface rust. Badly rusted areas will be cut out and new metal welded in. Existing paint will be scuffed / sanded, body work, then primed. What epoxy will work best?

Paint: Yes, I'm going to attempt to spray the original dark olive metallic. I am thinking base coat, clear coat. Recommendations?

Frame: I may just leave it as is...rusty and original. Buddy recommended Chassis Saver. His truck looks really good! I've had mixed results with POR-15. If I were going all-out, I'd sandblast and epoxy...but that's not happening. Thoughts on frame paint?

Engine bay, other stuff: I plan to mechanically remove paint and rust, epoxy prime, then shoot with satin black. Again, doesn't have to be perfect, just free of rust, looking good, and durable. Recommendations on a good, durable satin black?

Body filler: I did body-work 30 years ago on my first truck. Always had trouble mixing...either set up too quickly, or not enough hardener. Recommendations here?

I do have 60 gallon 240v air compressor, three HPLV gun kit, MIG welder, body hammer and dollies.

Pictures for reference...
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:35 PM   #2
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Godspeed, that is a massive undertaking, I got nothing to offer except for if shooting paint in your home garage don't forget to put the pilot light out on your water heater, lol

also on a serious note I learned that wire wheels on a 4.5" angle grinder remove paint rather well down to bare metal and won't cut into the metal like sandpaper disks will, unless that's what you want cause bondo needs rough metal with more surface area to stick to

Phosphoric acid called Prep & Etch from Home Depot ($5.00 / gallon) and a disposable brush, steel wool, or red/green scotch pad will help agitate and remove the rust, don't forget to neutralize it after with some baking soda and warm water

just trying to help, and.... we'll be watching

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Old 04-27-2020, 02:23 PM   #3
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Go to a local auto-body supply store. Find a friendly one willing to guide you. It's worth it to pay a little more to get the help. This stuff is not cheap. My advice is to stay in a paint "family". If your local guy sells PPG buy all PPG primers, fillers and paint. They are designed to work together. They will have all the bits you haven't thought of like thinners, tack rags and filters.

Last edited by bhemingson; 04-27-2020 at 02:24 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:22 PM   #4
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Some cautionary comments regarding Greg's advise.....


Baking soda residue is a good way for epoxy primer to peel off in sheets, if IT isn't properly neutralized.. Certain acids left in pitted areas can fester after some time in the sun and cause adhesion issues from outgassing of the chemical reaction still taking place. I've had personal experience with both, lesson learned the hard way. As expensive as paint products are, my advise is once you decide on the epoxy primer, use the recommendation of that paint manufacturer for any prep of surface rusted areas. NOT ALL EPOXIES REACT THE SAME to follow such blanket statements, but most do not like soda as the epoxy loses adhesion in the presence of the base PH.. If considering any acid prep, get the info from the EPOXY PAINT manufacturer for what they recommend using with their product, and follow their instructions for using said product to the letter. Do not take advise from the acid prep manufacturer, they all have enough disclaimer hidden on their website to remove liability that all they are worried about is making the sale.
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:47 PM   #5
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Ivd never used the acid cleaning method..but I've read enough on it that I steered clear off it...
I've seen mixed reviews on those Eastwood paint removers...
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-co...MaAljgEALw_wcB .pricey , but may be a option..
For paint products I'd go with spi..https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com
For body filler I used evercoat rage. .http://www.evercoat.com/premium-fillers/us/ and evercoat metal glaze for the finish coat...both great products
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:55 PM   #6
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

I think by now you have learned ask 5 guys car or paint advice and you will get 6 opinions, LOL

I am going to take a back seat to the other guys with my advice as I am just an amateur, but I will leave you with these thoughts

Mark Worman of Graveyard cars (say what you will about the show, but he is a pro painter - and a good one) says in one of his videos while shooting a car that he deliberately adds some acid to his paint or primer I forget which to give it that extra bite especially after having taken a car down to bare metal.

The other thing I want to point out and I wish I could find the article, is a guy with some chemistry background who did a bit of research and stated that though it may go by a few different names the underlying chemical in most if not all adequate rust removers is just that phosphoric acid, and yes of course it has to be removed properly after applications and you are not applying it in full strength you would be hard pressed to find it for sale like that, it is already diluted by Home Depos supplier and you further dilute it with water before applying, depending on your rusted surfaces.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:37 AM   #7
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Daubs, regarding your primer, I use SPI Epoxy. I think you'll find it a high quality product at a fair price, with awesome customer service to answer any and all questions. Browse around their website forums, you'll get good info. From paint guys.

http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php


To elaborate on some of the points that have been raised, in the grand scheme of things, the epoxy primer needs to be SLIGHTLY acidic on the PH scale to get good adhesion. Too much acid, like a coating of phosphoric acid residue under the epoxy, and the acid starts to do what acids do, a chemical reaction. Typically this would be the deposits left deep in pits since they are difficult at best to remove. This normally results in acid activating after a few months in sunlight and you'll start to see small circular raised areas (about 1/8 diameter and less) in the paint finish as the paint delaminates above this residue from the outgassing given off by the chemical reaction occurring..

Too much base, as in you used soda blasting without proper neutralizing, or some residue was not properly removed, and any SLIGHTLY acidic properties the epoxy USED TO HAVE for adhesion is neutralized by this presence of a base on the metal surface, where it no longer has adhesion. Hence, your paint will pull off in sheets. The paint manufacturers have calculated this slight bit of acid into their formulation to give just enough for "bite", or adhesion. I have no idea who Mark Worman is, don't watch the show, but I'd venture a guess that SPI, for instance, would void any adhesion warranty once someone starts to tweak the formulation of their epoxy by adding more acid. Perhaps that was needed to counteract any baking soda he used to neutralize the acid used to get rid of rust. If all of this sounds like a viscous circle, it is. This is the main reason I shy away from these "treatments", as too much either way, and you are causing a detriment to adhesion. Best bet if you do decide to use a rust converter/acid, is to use what is recommended by the paint manufacturer of the epoxy you are using, as they will have researched what is compatible without affecting adhesion FOR THEIR PRODUCT. Not all epoxies are the same formulation, not all react the same, so get the info from the paint manufacturer.

For metal prep, I prefer abrading the sheet metal using DA, media blasting using garnet abrasive (by a qualified person) if needed to remove scale out of pits, or replacement metal if the rust/pitting is that bad.. Abrading using sanding, media blasting using garnet or coal slag types (Black Beauty), etc, does not cause a detriment to ADHESION like some of these other acid/baking soda processes do if not used properly.

Disclaimer: Yes, media blasting will cause stretch damage if the media is too coarse and pressure is too high. If you don't know what you're doing, research, research, research. That applies to whether you are doing it or you're finding someone else to do so. If a DA and 80 grit will remove the surface rust, great! So be it. If the metal is pitted, the DA won't address all the rust scale deep below the surface and you're now onto the next option.
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Last edited by MP&C; 04-28-2020 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:42 AM   #8
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

For filler, you can't go wrong with Evercoat products. When mixed, you've already seen the heat generated from the chemical reaction. If applied to bare steel, this heat against the colder metal will create condensation. If you were to sand off the filler a month later, you would see rust has formed due to this condensation, affecting adhesion. Because of this, it is recommended to apply your epoxy primer first, and filler over top of the epoxy, as needed.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:11 AM   #9
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Just throw my two cents in here listen to what Robert is telling you because he’s 100% right!!!
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:56 PM   #10
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Primer - SPI Epoxy. Not recommended over lacquer or acrylic paint though.

Paint - have base mixed up at your local auto paint supply. SPI Universal clear.

Frame - If you're stripping to bare metal, SPI Epoxy. Over rust, Chassis Saver. Chassis Saver will stick to rust or bare steel, but it is nasty to work with whereas SPI Epoxy is much more pleasant to use. SPI Epoxy will have more of a semi-gloss whereas Chassis Saver is satin.

Engine bay, other stuff - Same as above.

Body Filler - I use Rage Gold. I use filler thinner if it's on a horizontal surface as it levels out and reduces pinholes. No thinner for vertical surfaces. The warmer it is, the faster filler kicks. I usually do a stripe across the filler pile when you're mixing. I use something finer and less viscous for feathering out when needed or filling pinholes - Seal Skin.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:44 PM   #11
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Listen to Robert maybe we will see you at spi forums. Anything and everything about body and paint is there.
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:57 AM   #12
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

This is the link to my build of the same truck. Just finished painting the bedsides yesterday and I'll be sanding and buffing this weekend. I used SPI epoxy and Nason paint products with great results.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=704128

71 Cheyenne work truck.
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:17 AM   #13
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Hey Daubs, didn't realize that was you. Project is coming along.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:01 PM   #14
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanman1972 View Post
Hey Daubs, didn't realize that was you. Project is coming along.
Hey Lannie: I've cut up passenger door, welding in patch panels. Fun stuff!
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:03 AM   #15
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Can anybody tell me why every auto manufacturer in Europe and in the United States dips the bodies in the decreasing solution and a etching solution with phosphate prior to priming and paint?
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:41 AM   #16
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by lupo View Post
Can anybody tell me why every auto manufacturer in Europe and in the United States dips the bodies in the decreasing solution and a etching solution with phosphate prior to priming and paint?
I'm not auto manufacturing expert, but I see the main advantage being that it gets in every nook and cranny and blind application. That way, areas that can't be reached with a sprayer are coated in a corrosion-inhibiting product. I bet once that is done, there's no need to abrade the surface prior to paint. That way, the assembly line can degrease, prime, base, and clear without a human ever touching it.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:36 PM   #17
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Re: Need help with my painting plan

Thank you MD for your reply. If they did not phosphatides the surface these cars would rust in areas that even microscopic rust in the steel. This would create warrantee headaches for the manufacture.

I have been using metal etch products for for 4 decades. Used properly this will extend the service life the paint job dramatically.A good example would be a Dodge sprinter van when you see rust blisters all over the body that's I am talking about Well good luck with your project

Last edited by lupo; 05-06-2020 at 12:43 PM.
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