Anyone ever try E-85 Fuel in their truck?

[68 Suburban]

It is a midwest thing where the fuel is 85% ethenol. Some of the newer trucks and cars can run on it. I was wondering if anyone has tried it in an older truck. From my limited research, I understand it is not corrosive and gasket drying like methenol is. I have an e mail into Edelbrock Tech to see if it can be used with their carbs.

[cdowns]

never heard of the stuff but what i'd be worried about would be it dissolving all the varnish and lead buildup in the gas tank

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by cdowns

never heard of the stuff but what i'd be worried about would be it dissolving all the varnish and lead buildup in the gas tank

Here is some more info:

http://www.e85fuel.com/

http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/e85.asp

[grayw0lf]

I dont' know how it runs, but its a Great idea. It would support OUR economy (corn farmers) & make us less dependent on & less interested in 3rd world countries. Not to mention that it would have to burn cleaner! Anything is cleaner than fossil fuels.

Just my 1.2 cents worth.

[smitty62]

Very poor mileage and performance due to less BTU's in ethanol than gas. This a boondoggle by the government and sanctioned by corn farmers and midwest state politicians. It also costs much more to produce than gasoline. The government has poured millions (billions)?of taxpayers dollars into this and it's based on faulty technology and they're embarassed to admit it. It's only cheaper than gas at the pump right now because it's being subsidised by the government (YOU!) DON"T buy it!

[stelth2002]

smitty, can i read some of the material you have on this as i dont think its all that bad of an alternative for the short term.

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by smitty62

Very poor mileage and performance due to less BTU's in ethanol than gas.

It get about the same mileage as if you ran propane or natural gas.

http://www.e85fuel.com/faqs/range.htm

Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 5% to 15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on temperature and driving conditions.

For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by smitty62

This a boondoggle by the government and sanctioned by corn farmers and midwest state politicians. It also costs much more to produce than gasoline. The government has poured millions (billions)?of taxpayers dollars into this and it's based on faulty technology and they're embarassed to admit it. It's only cheaper than gas at the pump right now because it's being subsidised by the government (YOU!) DON"T buy it!

I have yet to research the cost of ethenon to make, but if you are figuring billions of tax payers dollars, you really need to add the billions and billions and billions of dollars that we spend in the middle east. This is indirectly subsidising our oil supply. Add up that subsidy

I rather pay some farmer a subsidy than some middle eastern country.

[68 Suburban]

Some more good reading:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/biomass/p...sportation.pdf

[smitty62]

Suburban;
Take a look at who published that article--enuf said? Junk science at it's worst!
Stelth: Use Google and do your own research-perhaps you'll be less likely to swallow the hogwash (and watch who is publishing the data).

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by smitty62

Suburban;
Take a look at who published that article--enuf said?
Stelth: Use Google and do your own research-perhaps you'll be less likely to swallow the hogwash (and watch who is publishing the data).

How many billions have we spent in the middle east this year

If it is hog wash, please enlighten us with links to the real facts

[Jeepster376]

Hey 68, What happened to your web site idea? I'm still looking forward to it. It would be cool to include a new forum dedicated to fuel discussions.

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by Jeepster376

Hey 68, What happened to your web site idea? I'm still looking forward to it. It would be cool to include a new forum dedicated to fuel discussions.

I have been busy lately. I am still working on it.

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by 68 Suburban

How many billions have we spent in the middle east this year

If it is hog wash, please enlighten us with links to the real facts

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicl...l-ethanol.html

We aren't over in the middle east because of the price of oil. We are there because there are terrorists who want YOU dead. These terrorists would think nothing of coming over here and killing you and your whole family. It is far better that we lose a few VOLUNTEER warriors on foriegn soil then another 3000 innocent civilians because some deranged terrorists decides they want to fly a plane into another building. How many American civilians have lost their lives here in the good old USA to some terrorist punk since we took these morons on head-on?

E85 is crap. It is a tax subsidy period. If you think otherwise just keep drinking that Kool Aid.

[68 Suburban]

Originally Posted by mrein3

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicl...l-ethanol.html

We aren't over in the middle east because of the price of oil. We are there because there are terrorists who want YOU dead. These terrorists would think nothing of coming over here and killing you and your whole family. It is far better that we lose a few VOLUNTEER warriors on foriegn soil then another 3000 innocent civilians because some deranged terrorists decides they want to fly a plane into another building. How many American civilians have lost their lives here in the good old USA to some terrorist punk since we took these morons on head-on?

E85 is crap. It is a tax subsidy period. If you think otherwise just keep drinking that Kool Aid.

Ok, this was not meant to be a political post. We have been spending a LOT of money in the middle east long before Iraq. The comment had nothing to do with Iraq, or terrorist, so get off your soap box, or should I say Koolaide stand .

And if you read my original post, I was INQUIRING about E-85, not endorsing it. You know, trying to educate myself

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by 68 Suburban

Ok, this was not meant to be a political post. We have been spending a LOT of money in the middle east long before Iraq. The comment had nothing to do with Iraq, or terrorist, so get off your soap box, or should I say Koolaide stand .

And if you read my original post, I was INQUIRING about E-85, not endorsing it. You know, trying to educate myself

Sorry. I'm off my soap box now.

Truth be told most of gas you buy in major metropolitan areas now has ethanol in it. I avoid it like the plague in ALL my small engines. If the stuff sits for a long period of time it seperates and causes all kinds of problems. For my daily driver I just pump in what ever they man is selling because I use it fast enough.

For a while St. Paul/Minneapolis supplies switched to a higher percentage of ethanol on October first - they still may be doing this. At the same time my Escort mileage went from 34-36 mpg down to 30-32 mpg because of the reduced amount of energy in each gallon. I don't track this anymore because even at $2/gallon the price of gas does NOT effect me.

There are 80-100 gas stations around the twin cities that have ethanol free gas available. It is "premium" only. It costs more but it is all I put in my outboards, lawn mowers, tillers, etc. I ran two tanks of ethanol gas through my old outboard. BOTH times I had to rebuild a carb. Never again.

[smitty62]

Mrein3; One small point--the price of gas effects everyone. The price of everything transported by fossil fuel will be going up.

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by smitty62

Mrein3; One small point--the price of gas effects everyone. The price of everything transported by fossil fuel will be going up.

I do understand that. I'm just pointing out that my personal driving habits are such that 50 cents per gallon isn't going to have me looking for a 2nd job so I can put gas in my car. The long term effects of 50 more cents per gallon on the general economy are still TBD. I have faith in the American way of life that somebody will come up with a profitable solution to the problem. That is what makes this the great country that it is today.

At what price per barrel do all the pumps here get turned back on? I thought that number used to be $30/barrel and that the large oil producing nations kept the price at that point so they could control the supply. I understand that in Saudi Arabia it costs 5 cents per barrel to get oil out of the ground. Costs are added after that but I'm sure there aren't too many wells here that are that low in cost.

[adamls]

From a person who works in the refinery business. 75% of the nations government leased land for oil production is not being used to produce oil. We havent built a new refinery since the 70's. Our oil consumption has grown at a steady pace over the years and the gas prices followed. It is the huge industrial growth in countries like China and India that has put a strain on the world's oil supply. This is not a problem that is going to go away. Gas is not going to decrease in cost a considerable amount if it does at all, it will most likely go higher. Ethanol IS more expensive to produce, but only because it is not mass produced like gasoline. A gallon of milk cost $3.50/gallon, it's natural and in theory it will never run out, why should gas be any cheaper because it is produced in a much larger quantity. Ethanol does have it's drawback, but so does gas, it is a viable solution that should be examined.

[jay6891]

I here you on our oil fields not being used. My family has 33 wells shut in, in the Texas panhandle. Been that way since the white oil deal. When I lived in Chicago, they had that ethanal junk. Went though it so fast in my truck I thought I had a hole in the tank.

[Jeepster376]

I did a little googling, and it seems the big flaw in the system is ethanol production results in a net loss of energy, since more energy is consumed in it's production than the ethanol product contains. I knew this about hydrogen, but never thought of ethanol "fuel" this way. I found info that shows promise that with continued R&D that it may be possible to one day produce ethanol with a net gain in energy. Aside from the inefficiencies, I don't have anything against blending it a bit, and it sure makes race cars go pretty fast. It can never replace gas, as we could never produce enough ethanol, but it could help out some. As far as mileage, tossing E-85 into a car that is calibrated for gasoline would reduce mileage. Though supposedly a recalibrated car should see improved mileage from this type of fuel.

[Jeepster376]

Here is an interesting USDA paper on how ethanol fuel can now be produced with a positive net gain in energy, and other benefits.

[grayw0lf]

Well, I do know one thing for sure. I am from a crappy little town in southern Minnesota. The town is dead, all but for 1 gas station, 1 pharmacy, 1 sad excuse for a grocery store, & 1 fast food place, open only in the summer. oh yeah, & the ethanol plant. Without it, there would be more than twice as many empty houses. The entire town lives off of the ethanol plant, or farming. & I would guess that about 95% of all small farms are gone. All industralized farming.

The power & efficeincy are not there w/ ethanol b/c we have not spend hundreds of billions on research.

Although, the electrolysis of water is the way of the future. Running off of nearly pure hydrogen.

The newer, very high pressure diesel fuel delivery system will catch on in the mean time.

[Jeepster376]

"Corn-Based Ethanol Does Indeed Achieve Energy Benefits" -- "Prof. David Pimentel's 1998 assessment of corn ethanol concluded that corn ethanol achieved a negative energy balance (which is usually defined as the energy in a product minus energy used to produce the product). Unfortunately, his assessment lacked timeliness in that it relied on data appropriate to conditions of the 1970s and early 1980s, but clearly not the 1990s... With up-to-date information on corn farming and ethanol production and treating ethanol co-products fairly, we have concluded that corn-based ethanol now has a positive energy balance of about 20,000 Btu per gallon."
http://www.ncga.com/public_policy/is.../08_22_01c.htm

Wang and Santini found that Pimentel has been recycling his ancient data for at least 10 years.

In August 2002 a new report from the USDA found that, not only is ethanol energy-efficient, but it's efficiency is steadily improving.

"Only Dr. Pimentel disagrees with this analysis. But his outdated work has been refuted by experts from entities as diverse as the USDA, DOE, Argonne National Laboratory, Michigan State University, and the Colorado School of Mines. While the opponents of ethanol will no doubt continue to peddle Pimentel's baseless charges, they are absolutely without credibility," the Renewable Fuels Association commented.


Much more of this subject can be found here .

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Never heard of it for gas engine's but I have seen it at the pump for diesel truck's/car's...