Hey you audio experts

[Porkchop]

Okay, to answer this you don't have to be an expert but I don't know alot about this stuff and was wondering if you guys could help me. I have a 69 chevy and am looking at installing speakers. I have the unit already installed but am working on the speakers. It's a 180w (180/4=45 watts per speaker) jvc. Against someones advice I purchased a set of 6x9 sony x-plode three way speakers. I figured that sony is a well known manufacturer and since the speakers weren't that cheap then they must be good. I was wrong, even though they are 180w maximum input apiece they still could not handle the 45w that one channel puts out. So my question is, what exactly is a three way speaker. does that mean that the tweater and the woofer are in the same speaker? Would it be better to go with seperate woofers to get good bass and then get two regular speaker to work as tweeters ( I'm not too sure I know what I'm talking about here hopefully someone does)? If I got seperate speakers how would I hook them up, woofers hooked to back wires and tweeters hooked to the front wires? What wattage should I go with for these speakers so that I can turn it up really loud and have the bass all the way up and not have that crappy muffled vibration noise that some speakers get?
thanks for all the help
brad

[ChevLoRay]

Three-way speakers are supposedly comprised or a woofer, a mid-range and a tweeter. Two-way speakers usually have the woofer and a mid/tweeter sorta speaker.

Anyway, the deal is that power that you mentioned can be measured in a couple of ways. Waaaaaay back in time, manufacturers used to say that amplifiers (like home use) would put out 100 watts. Well, that 100 watts was MUSIC power, as they said. When you hook the speakers to the amp, there is an impedance (resistance) to the current flowing through them that creates the sound that you hear. Speakers could be 4-ohm or 8-ohm. If you had 4-ohm speakers, the amp would "put out" more power, than if you had 8-ohm speakers. So, what may have been 100 watts of "power" at 4-ohms, became about 64-watts of power at 8-ohms. Better grade speakers were 8-ohms. Using the cheaper speakers may have given you the impression that the amp had more power, but what usually happened is the old distortion monster began to wreak havoc. When someone "blows" out their speakers, it is most often due to distortion, not an excess of power. The same distortion can cause damage to the amplifier, whether it is a home unit, or a mobile one.

Think of it like this: If you take a small, lightweight car or truck, and install a large engine, you have more power to move the vehicle, than the same engine would do in a large, heavy vehicle. It's that simple.

Ideally, you'd have tweeters (separate) somewhere near your ear level, like on the slanting windshield post. Mid-range speakers would be in the kick panels and a woofer would be behind the seat. Since our trucks usually have the gas tank behind the seat, we have to compromise. Putting the speakers in the doors is not bad, but you have to protect the speaker from humidity, and putting some sort of sound reflective material on the inside of the door is also better for your ears. There are several schools of thought about what is best for that purpose. DyanMat is one brand, while others have used spray-on undercoating, for example, on the inside of the door shell.

I am sure there are others who will be happy to comment. I still have my 1969 Sansui 2000 receiver (32 watts RMS/channel @ 8ohms) driving my 1969 Coral BX-300 speakers, rated at 16 watts RMS. I have not "blown" them in 34 years, nor do I expect to do so. The amp is the engine, and the speakers are the vehicle. Whether or not this philosophy is valid now, is conjecture, at best.

[jmanz69]

Your speakers can most definately handle your head unit. You are probably turning your bass ALL the way up as most people do when they want more bass. Well, a 6X9 speaker is not a good design to get bas out of. If you want bass you really should go to a subwoofer. It's that simple. The power rating on the head unit is in max power, which means if lightning were to strike your antenna you would have that. If you were to rate it at the RMS power(useable) it will be less, but clean. If you are blowing your speaker, it is most likely because of distortion at the max volume level. Most radio's will start distorting at 3/4 volume. it sounds louder, but is very bad for speakers. SOny speakers are good, but not the best. You pay for the name Sony. Your best plan would be to get a set of components (6" woofer and tweeter) and mount them and then get a small sub under a seat. You will never have really good bass in these trucks, cuz there just isn't room for all the right equipment without moving the gas tank. I had a set of Pioneer 6X9 4 ways, and I loved them, but you have to know their limitations. Good luck. I am sure others will have ideas that may help you too.

[lukecp]

I was thinking of adding a set of 3-way Sony Xplod 6x9's in the doors of my truck. I have a 50x4 watt Sony CD player, Kennwood dual under dash speakers (like 3" each), and 2 Xplod 2-way 6.5" speakers in the kick panels. I'm not that satisfied with the sound. It sounds OK, but the stock CD player and speakers in my mom's '01 S10 sound a lot better. I was planning on hooking up the four speakers i have right now as the front two speakers, and then running the 6x9's as the rar speakers. Would this be a good idea for better sound? I do like fairly loud bass, but i would rather have decent bass and good sound than good bass and crappie sound. Also, is the thin guage wire that comes with the speakers very good, or should i get that thick stuff they sell at the car audio store? And what kind of connectors are the best for connecting the wires?

[Lippyp]

I've just replaced the pair of cheap 6" pioneers as fitted by the previous owner with a set of 300 watt 3 way JBL 6"x9"s (the door was already cut for 6x9's under the plastic panels that the pioneers were mounted in, by a previous previous owner) The sound difference is amazing, the only downside is that they are at the back edge of the door so are muffled slightly by the seat. One thing I do want to get is something I saw for sale at Crutchfield.com, its a 6x9 rubber boot that you fit the speaker into and then fit it into the door, completely protects it from any moisture. Just gotta see if I can get something similar in the UK.

I also have a set of 4" 2 way JBL's that I'm going to mount on the kick panels as soon as I can get some pods, can't wait! At the moment I don't have any front speakers at all.

I just have a Panasonic CD head unit that puts out 4 x 35w but for the moment it's fine for me. The old speakers meant that I had some distortion as I had to crank it up a bit at higher speeds to hear anything over the engine noise/induction roar and wind noise.

I can thoroughly reccomend JBL's as they work fine with my relatively low powered head and sound great! They weren't that pricey either (£100 sterling for the 6x9's and the 4"s)

[72c10]

Ive been told thicker wire is better, and that you should use gold connections for best sound quality but unless you are a pro you wont know the dif. Just dont use solder conections, they dont hold up with the moisture and vibration. lots of diferent ways to do car audio, just keep in mined rms is more importent than wats and clarity is even more importent. 6x9's suck but work when you cant fit anything else. highly recomend components over 2 or 3 ways. and I agree on crutchfield being a good place to deal with for car audio. and nothing hits harder than a JL sub.

[ChevLoRay]

If anything can keep two wires together, it's soldering DONE RIGHT!

Cold solder joints are trash. Wires twisted together are subject to untwisting, moisture, pulling, etc. If you want a good connection, tin the end of the wire first, then add the crimp-on connector to it. Forget crimping it, though. Use your solder gun and heat the connector (remove the plastic/nylon colored piece) and finish the install with a touch of solder when the connector is hot enough to draw the solder into the connector.

Good solder joints will be shiny. Cold solder joints will have a dull look to them. Another indicator is solder that is balled-up. Not good. A good solder job will have the wire hot enough for the solder to coat and penetrate the wire but still allow you to see the strands of wire. The connector will still slip on the wire end, if you do it right.

I know that the gold-plated connectors are good, but they're expensive. The do look good when you show them off, though. However, you can still get a bad connection even with the gold-plated connectors.

Just don't try to get by with twisting the wires and wrapping them with tape. It just won't last. At least use wire nuts if you want the connection to be temporary, and tape them to help keep moisture out.

[72c10]

Hey ChevLoRay, I agree that solder done right is better that twisting a pair of wire together but it is not recomended on car audio I personaly use environmental splices and crimp conections and any Quality sterio installation place will recomend the same, But anyone can use whatever they want on thier trucks. Nothing makes you madder than blowing a $500 dallar amp becaus the graund wire conection came loose

[Reumster]

I don't know if I missed it in all the replies. But the most important thing in building a good clear sounding car audio system is crossing all your speakers right. You don't need high dollar amps, or really high dollar speakers either.

A cheap way to go is a good head unit. And buy seperates(tweeter, and mid seperate) with passive X-over. Then bet a amp with built in low pass X-over for your subs. This will make sure all your speakers are getting the right frequincy.

The next method and best allround is to use a 3-way electric X-over and 2 4 channel amps 1 for 4 tweeters, and 1 for 4 mids, and one for subs. Or for only one set of speaker get 2 2 channel amps.

The important thing is X-ing every thing over right. The best method for 3way speakers is 1 keeping the bass turned all the way down on head unit, or 2 putting inline caps on the 3-ways.

[jmil1974]

For Pete's sakes, get a separate amp for your speakers. As mentioned, it's almost always distortion that kills speaks, not power. RMS watts are key, not max. RMS continuous, max is peak. Get clean power, as much as you can swing. More power is better here, big time. 6x9s are a good compromise speaker. A nice set with a good amp does a good job. Optimally, you want a set of 2 or 3 way COMPONENT speakers. I would do 3 way components from Boston or Focal. I like Polk too but forget if they have 3 ways component sets or not.
6.5 in front of door, 4 in kick, and tweet under vent window
and one sub under/behind seat.
Get a stout 4 channel (like 4x100 RMS) from xtant, a/d/s, PPI, Alpine, or even Fosgate or MTX. Bridge the 2 rear channels to your sub, which will give you 300-400 watts RMS to your sub (depending on brand) which is plenty for nice loud quality sound. A good sub is important - Boston, JL Audio, Polk, or even Fosgate is OK here too. Match the model sub to the amp, most should tell you the RMS and Max ratings. A single 10 or 12 is great, depending on space. Anyone who tells you you need 2 subs has never heard a proper single sub setup. Add an eq, like the Kenwood 4042 or 6042 and you'll be amazed how good it sounds. If you ebay it, you can get out for well under a grand, maybe even around $500 if you go 2 way components and Fosgate stuff.
DO spend the dough on wiring, bigger is always better for quality and safety and connections have been covered. Count on 50-100 bones for good wiring and cabling and for well under a grand you'll have an AWESOME setup that anyone will love to listen to any kind of music.
Here's how I would break it down
EQ $50
Sub (+box?) $100
Amp $200
Speakers $200
Wiring, misc $100

Good luck!

[rangernsk]

I agree with many in the previous post, you pay for the Sony name, but they do have a reputation to stand behind so they make a decent product but not the best. If you want good bass a 10 in sub in a custom box under the set is about the only option most of us have. To get decent bass is a small box, it usually requires a high end sub. The better subs generally do better in small boxes and cheaper subs need more air space. I would recommend a MTX 8000 10 in sub under the seat with a good 150 watt amp. For mids and highs a good component setup would be idea. Like a previous post, tweets up high and mids down low. The sonys will handle your head unit. Car audio manufatures have tricks for rating power. The better amps will rate their power @12volts while cheaper amps are rated @14.8 volts. As many now 14.8 volts is normal operation for a car, with that said better amps will put out more power than they are rated. The reason for this is compitition classes. Usaually the classes are set buy the power rating of your amps, so a good amp is under rated and does better in compitition. Blown speakers come from distortion, I have seen a 150 watt amp blow a quality sub rated @ 850 watts rms. It was a cheap amp and was overdrived, thus creating "dirty"power. Hope some of this help, I guess the moral of the story is you get what you pay for.

[jmil1974]

Reumster is right, X-overs are critical. Most of the components I mentioned have their own crossovers. The amps have crossovers as do the EQs mentioned. You can tune to your heart's content. No matter what, keep treble and esp BASS flat on the head unit. Some head units are 0-XX but most now are like -10 to 10. You want it at O (treble too). Adjust tone with the EQ. You'll get a much cleaner signal this way. With everything crossed over properly, you should not need any bass blockers on any speakers.

Proper setup is key to sound quality. Sound deadener helps a ton, too. I have heard some middle brands sound really nice b/c they were installed and setup properly. But, you WILL get what you pay for in terms of quality but in the end, it's what your ears like that counts.

Get a budget and list of goals for your system and go from there. What do you want out of your stereo and what is your budget? Is this a one time deal or do you want to be able to expand?

[Porkchop]

I'm dirt poor. the only reason I want good speakers is because I got the cd player for Christmas, really I need, and would much rather, spend the money on the restoration of my truck. I don't understand this stuff at all. I can't afford a seperate amp, and from looking at the prices of some subs it doesn't look like I can afford them either. I too, like yellow72Custom, was comparing my sound to the factory sound in my dad's s10. You can listen to it loud with good bass and no distortion, this is all I want. I am only doing this to please myself, not to try to "bump" down the road and impress my peers. My problem is that I have my speakers mounted under the dash with some of that metal stripping that some people use to hold up gas tanks and the like, no box, I am considering building some boxes. Of course another problem is that I get a lot of road noise and to overcome that you have to turn it up louder, which then may only bring it up to a normal listening level (but in my dads truck, which has less road noise, this would be considered "loud"), so then to listen to it "loud" in my truck you have to turn it up even louder, which then begins to create the distortion that I speak of. I can eliminate some of the distortion by turning down the bass, but that only makes the sound ear peircing, even if I do turn the treble down. So, what can I do to make the sound more like my dad's s10 without spending a whole lot? (like what wattage, rms, and all that other stuff you talked about? What size speakers and what different types of speakers should I go with?) Let's just say that I have a budget of $250 and I already have the JVC player. Should I build a box, if so can I put the two speakers in the same box back to back and then mount the box on the hump? What would be the minimum size that this box should be? Mybe I am asking for too much.
thanks for all your time and help!
brad

[jmil1974]

Ok, here's what you do with your $250.
Go get your SOny 6x9s replaced under warranty.
Get an old alpine or fosgate amp off ebay, you can find LOTS of decent amps (4X50) for less than $100.
Get a Polk EX 10" sub, off ebay, less than $50 with box.
Kenwood 4042 EQ $50

Spend the other $50 on building a new box or a set of used Boston Acoustic, Polk Audio, or Infinity 6X9s if you can't get the Sonys replaced under waranty.

The amp is KEY. You head unit is only giving 12-15 watts of power. It simply cannot give more than that from that space, period. You NEED the power to get more volume without distorting and blowing your speakers. There's no way around it.

I have Boston 3 way 6x9s, an old alpine 35X2 amp (3522) and an alpine HU and it's plenty loud under most conditions and no distortion. The old Alpine amps work great for what you want.

[jmil1974]

Set up an ebay account and when I get home I'll send you some links to components to fit your budget and desires. Ebay is the only way to go IMO, especially on a budget.

[Porkchop]

Don't you have to have a credit card to use ebay, because I don't.
thanks for all the great help and information that you guys have given me.
brad

[jmil1974]

YOu have to have a CC to sell, but not to buy. You can send, checks, money orders, or do pay pal from a bank account, depending on what the seller accepts. CCs are safest but PayPal is pretty damn safe too. Ebay insures transactions under $200 I think. Just look for sellers with a good number of positive unique feedbacks.

[Reumster]

Also I forgot to point out. Get a CRUTCHFEILD mag!

[Porkchop]

I tried to set up an account but for identification purposes I either need a credit card or a certain email account(It said: AOL, Earthlink, Etc.)I don't know exactly what they mean by that.
thanks
brad

[jmil1974]

You need an email account from an ISP you pay for. In other words, not a yahoo, hotmail, or other anonymous account. AOL, Road Runner, EArthlink, COx, any that you have to pay for should do fine.

[lukecp]

Wow...there are a lot of replies to this post. I have a few more questions. Before i was thinking of mounting the 6x9's in my doors if i get them, but then i rememberd how much loose stuff there is to rattle in the doors of my 31 year old truck. So, i was thinking of mounting the 6x9's under the seat. If i mounted them under the seat, as far back as towards the gas tank as i could get them, would they sound pretty good?

Also, i have some questions about setting up the amp. My CD player has outlets on the back to run a set of RCA cables to a amp, and another smaller wire that goes to the amp. If i get a 4 channel amp, could i hook up the 2 6x9's, and maybe one 8" or 10" sub to the amp? And, i missed out on what exactly the equalizer does. And, my final question, is there room under the seat for a 8" or 10" sub? I could make my own box no problem. If i get the 6x9" speakers, i would have to mount the sub on the hump (maybe 1" or 1.5" higher than the rest of the floor).
Thanks for all the help!

[jmil1974]

Custom, I would avoid the 6x9s behind or under the seat. You'll lose a ton of sound, through your legs or the seat. Do the door bit and slap some sound deadener in there and you'll be surprised.

Go for a 4 channel, hook the 6x9s up to the front channels and bridge (combine) the rear 2 for the sub. The EQ I mentioned has a built in crossover, to send the right frequencies to the right speakers, as well as fine tone control. If you have the stock seat, there is room for a 10. Stick with one to make sure you have enough air space.

[jmil1974]

amps (these are alpine but you'd be good to go with Fosgate too in this price range)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

EQs (I have had both the 4042 and 6042 and loved them both)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3290

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...m=R2&catref=C3

Subs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3291

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3291

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3291

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...4&BasicSearch=


Speakers

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...2&BasicSearch=

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...2&BasicSearch=

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4950

This should get you started. If you need some more help, I'll be glad to as much as I know how.

[spinning wheels]

Wow, lots of great advise on this thread. One more bit of advise. My head started to spin around, when I tried to figure out what to install in my vehicles. Specially when you go to a car stereo store and every salesman tells you something diffrent. I went to a book store and picked up a book called "Auto Audio". It has great advise and ideas on how to set up a decent auto stereo. Its not a cheap book, but then neither is spending hundreds of $$ on a stereo system that sounds like a tin can.
Good luck

[Porkchop]

I'm sorry for not getting back to you on this Jimil1974, I've been really busy and couldn't find our internet service provider email that was required to register for ebay. You have been a GREAT help, I will check out those links.
thanks
brad