Which one is better? SBC 406 or 434?

[C20-67_N_MO]

Wanting to build up a 400ci small block and not sure which way to go with it.

Pretty easy just to do a .030 over and have 5.7" rods for a 406 SBC and build up a good cruizer/performer that way. But what about fully stroking it out with a 434ci stroker kit?

Would it it worth it going that route? Or would I have to have an aftermarket block to be reliable?

[nxtruck]

It all depends on what you're trying to do. If you're looking to build a hot street/strip cruiser, then save some money and build a 406. You could probably get by with a factory crank, a set of ARP-bolted 5.7 rods, and some inexpensive forged pistons. If your power expectations don't exceed 450-500 or so, this setup would work for you.
If you're looking to make more power than this, then maybe a good aftermarket block with a 421-434 rotating assembly would be worth looking into. I can tell you this: I'm currently running a factory-block 434 and it took a lot of grinding and fitting to cram it all in there. And then I'm still up against the weakest link, which in my case is the block. I wouldn't build another 434 using a factory block.
Just my opinions...

[C20-67_N_MO]

Yeah I would be happy just to have a hot 450+ HP street/strip cruiser. And it sounds like a 406 would be the way to go and least expensive route as well.

Thanks for your input.

[jgh64pkup]

head and cam 6.0 sounds like a good street/strip cruiser
pretty decent milage too

[Marv D]

I'm 100% with Chris here.
A 434 is a major PITA in a GM production casting and even if you stuff it full of $100 bills it's still just a factory production casting with some bells and whistles. And not to mention making a 4" arm fit. and also not to mention you are going to need one hell of a set of heads to keep it happy. Anything less than a 225cc port is 'marginal' and the cost of a set of Dart 233's or AllPro 245's (including the $2k in shaft rockers etc) it's a very very costly ordeal to do it 'right'.

That said,,, just as stroking a 350 to 383 adds torque, so does the 434 stroke. If you want to make it all it can be, stroke is always step one. I do know of a number of 434's in street cars that are not beaten up on every weekend and have survived quite well.

If you can invest in a Dart raised cam block it makes the whole clearance issues go away. IMO that is the 'right' way to do the 434. But cost can get out of hand in a big hurry. One thing you do not want to do is waste $1500+ on a production casting adding splayed mains, short filling, decking, honing,,, trying to make it something it can never be. I built two 434's in the Dart SHP block and that is a definite step above stock, but not the right move either. It's a good block but not real happy being clearanced for the 4" stroke. (almost as much work as a stock casting) .

World blocks are right around $2k and is a solid platform. Still need finish honing and decking but you can generally get the Motown block with the steel mains, complete with your machinist finishing touches for less than the cost of a unfinished Dart block.

But again, you get what you pay for and the Dart raised cam block may be the last block you ever buy and well worth the $. It's not so much that stupid old saying of 'speed costs....',,, today it's more a matter of 'how reliably do you want to go fast.'

[C20-67_N_MO]

Thanks everyone for your help.

Yeah if I had the funds then I would go with a good aftermarket block and build up that way.

But I am thinking for now a nice SBC 406 would work just find.

Thanks everyone.

[djracer]

Build a BBC, 427 or bigger!

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by djracer

Build a BBC, 427 or bigger!

Nawww!

I like Small Blocks to be Big Block killers!

[djracer]

If you like to spend extra money to have less reliability and less power go for it. LOL

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by djracer

If you like to spend extra money to have less reliability and less power go for it. LOL

No.

I like less weight to power ratio.

[ripdog28]

Originally Posted by C20-67_N_MO

No.

I like less weight to power ratio.

??? Im confused, you mean that the 200 extra lbs or .2 in the 1/4 means a lot on the street? Im with DJ. over 500ft/lbs at 3200 makes for a lot more fun then hitting that kind of power at about 4500+ in a sbc... just my .02

SBC's are fun...... When you have the room to wind it out...

[djracer]

To each his own I am just picking. I have built some of each I just prefer the wide motors.

[C20-67_N_MO]

I've never personally messed with the Big Blocks.

And would simply preferr to stay with what I know works well and makes descent power for my LWB truck. I may look into a BBC in the future but for now I just want a good big inch small block to power my ride.

**NOTE** This thread started off on which Small Block would be better and turned out to be a debate about SBC vs. BBC. Which is not what I intended at all. W
While I like everyone's opinion, its just gotten WAY off topic for me.

If you want to continue talking about which small block is better then please do so, if not I really don't want to hear about how much better the BBC is as that's not what I am asking here.

Thanks for your understanding.

[djracer]

I didn't mean to take away from your thread. If I were building a small block it would be a 406. I would not spent the extra money to do the 434 because I would absolutely have to have a little m block if I went bigger than a 406. With that being said My buddies 408 runs really well I just know how weak the blocks are. I would keep it in the 500hp range with a stock block if you want it to live.

[chris mc bride]

I agree that its easy to build hp in either bb or sb.For cheap bang for the buck its sb. For nice jump in tq at reasonable price its the bb.Now when it comes to the fun of busting someones unsuspecting a$$ its a maxed out sbc with big cubes in small looking package.Now if you max power heck build yourself a 615 bbc and tell everyone its 454.Then again theres the money issue. IMO build what you like and run it hard and enjoy.In few months you will be wanting more anyway.
I ran bbc race engines for while mainly 454 to 496 ci stuf anf got out run from time to time by sbc.Most cost twice as much as my big block and when I was running the 454 stuff they where almost as big and one was a 468 sbc(ok if you call 468 ci a small block).
Build the biggest you can afford is my advice .Then buy the best damn set of heads you can get thats where the biggest power gains are anyway.

[jgh64pkup]

can you even find a set of heads that flow enough for a 468 sbc?

[ripdog28]

I`bet you Marv has a set that would... His flow as much or more then most BBC stock heads.

[jgh64pkup]

im guessing theyre 18 degree heads?
maybe some sb 2.2s

[MalibuKasey]

Here's my two cents..... my 406 makes 525HP and 500tq its in a 79 malibu.... ask Josh, its a strong setup and runs on 96 all day long. I drive it to the dragstrip which is 35 minutes from me and I wouldnt hesitate on driving it anywhere (on street tires).

[chris mc bride]

Back to original post.IMO the power between the two isn't worth the cost.If you want more than standard 406,which can be pretty strong,then add a small nitrous system.Heck a 300 dollars sytem will give you more power then the extra 28 ci will.Plus you only pay when you use it.A basic plate system will give you 75 to 200 hp.Just do few extras doing your buld and your good to go.Forged pistons and good rings.Maybe a ignition control system that will retard timing at the hit of the button.I normally retard 2 degrees per 50 or 75 hp,at 200 I would go 6 to 8 degrees retard.Might be little much but its safer to remove to much then to little.
Don't worry abpout the night mares you hear about nitrous its basically from those who don't install proper safety switches or maintance there stuff like they should.

[AirMale]

I used to have a small block and then I grew up. Just kidding but when I had a 383/450hp it was just never enough and I had wished I had saved my money for a bbc. You could build a mild 496cu making a conservative 550hp for a a few bucks more than a sbc that makes the same hp. The difference is that the bbc isn't even working hard at 550hp.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Hey I got a newbie ?? for you guys.

Do you have to have screw-in studs to run true roller rocker arms?

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by djracer

If you like to spend extra money to have less reliability and less power go for it. LOL

Yeah,,, you could be like DJ here and have a money hungry monster that takes FOREVER to get finished ,, or just build a small block and go racing
<grins ear to ear,, you know I'm just pulling ur chain Kevin>

No jgh64..,, Just a little ol set of 23° castings.
Well OK, maybe a slightly tweaked Uratchko built set of AllPro 345cc raised runner 23° castings, went 374 cfm on Bishcoffs superflow bench and went 376 on my machinist Superflow bench after he touched up the valves this year. (in other words we didn't hurt anything with the new valve angles).

[nxtruck]

Originally Posted by C20-67_N_MO

Hey I got a newbie ?? for you guys.

Do you have to have screw-in studs to run true roller rocker arms?

No, but I personally wouldn't run more than about .480 or so lift w/pressed in studs. When the spring pressures and valve lifts start to climb, the pressed in studs can pull out of the head.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by nxtruck

No, but I personally wouldn't run more than about .480 or so lift w/pressed in studs. When the spring pressures and valve lifts start to climb, the pressed in studs can pull out of the head.

Yikes!

Okay then the camshaft I just ordered is like .488/.510 and my stock Vortec heads will probably not handle them with the roller rockers I order as well.