Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

Are you able to explain to me why this system, or others might not require the use of flexible exhaust joints (i.e. short braided stainless couplings) at or near the headers? Systems with "X" or "H" pipes seem awfully rigid to me. It appears that they might benefit from using some type of flexible couplings. Curious to know. Thanks.

Exhaust bellows are typical only used on hot-end exhaust assemblies where necessary to allow for material expansion between two rigid components located in close proximity to each other (i.e. the exhaust manifold to turbo connections on the back of the Duramax Diesel engines), or to provide a means to deal with the slight mis-alignment of components that is expected to exceed a specific production tolerance. Exhaust system H and Y pipes themselves don't present either of these issues (especially ones used in systems without catalytic converters) and therefore don't require the use of bellows, as long as the fixtures for the components are designed correctly and their manufacturing is carried out as intended.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by toddoky

Exhaust bellows are typical only used on hot-end exhaust assemblies where necessary to allow for material expansion between two rigid components located in close proximity to each other (i.e. the exhaust manifold to turbo connections on the back of the Duramax Diesel engines), or to provide a means to deal with the slight mis-alignment of components that is expected to exceed a specific production tolerance. Exhaust system H and Y pipes themselves don't present either of these issues (especially ones used in systems without catalytic converters) and therefore don't require the use of bellows, as long as the fixtures for the components are designed correctly and their manufacturing is carried out as intended.

So I'm assuming any flex generated in the system by engine torque is insignificant in this application. And without catalytic converters there is no concern of excessive heat that may cause thermal expansion issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

So I'm assuming any flex generated in the system by engine torque is insignificant in this application. And without catalytic converters there is no concern of excessive heat that may cause thermal expansion issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

Yes, your assumption would be correct. You can use exhaust systems designs of OE manufacturers as an example as to whether bellows are required from an engineering standpoint. You will be hard pressed to find one used in any OE exhaust system other than at a critical or highly constrained hot-end component connection. They don't spend a nickle or dime they don't have to.

[PGSigns]

So how did the fit up go on the 64 you had in the lab in January? Have you been able to see what parts of the 67 to 72 stuff will cross over?
Jimmy

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

So how did the fit up go on the 64 you had in the lab in January? Have you been able to see what parts of the 67 to 72 stuff will cross over?
Jimmy

Yes, we worked through the validation and design process on the 63-66 C10 application and I can report that there will be specific engine mounting brackets and headers that will be released for them that will be based on the use of the same motor mounts we used for the 67-72 C10 shown in this thread. The transmission crossmember will be shared between the application as will the exhaust systems after a small revision is made to the rear tailpipe hanger brackets.

[PGSigns]

Is there a time frame for this? Getting close to time to start on the 65.
Jimmy

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Is there a time frame for this? Getting close to time to start on the 65.
Jimmy

Hello Jimmy. If you are in immediate need of parts, those specific Hooker Blackheart parts won’t be helpful to you. They have made it past the prototyping stage, but all of the pre-production tooling, documentation and first production run requirements that are still in-process will put their availability out somewhere around 4 months from now.

[70inbville]

Hello, do you make a downpipe to go from Hooker ls cast manifolds to the blackheart exhaust system? I have been all over the website and summit but can't find one. found several for cars but not 70 c10. Also how is the clearance for shifter linkage with the headers. the pics above don't show a steering column and linkage. thanks

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 70inbville

Hello, do you make a downpipe to go from Hooker ls cast manifolds to the blackheart exhaust system? I have been all over the website and summit but can't find one. found several for cars but not 70 c10. Also how is the clearance for shifter linkage with the headers. the pics above don't show a steering column and linkage. thanks

The specific manifold adapter pipe kit you are interested in was prototyped as part of the development effort for this application and are on the production schedule to be ran, which will trigger a product release and website listing to be posted when that happens. I don’t expect all of that to happen until sometime near the end of next month.

[70inbville]

Thank you for the reply and will be watching for the info to come out. on a side note has anyone used this exhaust system along with nolimit parts such as shock relocation kits and adjustable panhard rod system? looking at pics things might get tight. thanks for any input.

[toddoky]

From the photos I looked at of both of those No Limit parts during my development research I’d have to say that neither of them would be usable with the Hooker Blackheart exhaust systems due to them needing to occupy the same physical space as the exhaust system tubing in multiple areas. The driver side over-axle tube will only clear the stock panhard bar frame anchor bracket used on the 1965-up trucks.

[toddoky]

While I'm checking in to this thread I thought I post some pics of the 1970 C10 development truck in its current state of assembly.

[clay68c10]

72MARIO; thanks for the update, I appreciate it.

Toddoky; that’s a good looking stepper, thanks for sharing. What size wheel/tire combo is it running?

[toddoky]

I'm not sure about the wheel/tire package sizes used as I had no involvement with the assembly of the truck. I will have to provide the info at a later time as the truck has left the engineering lab temporarily, so I don't have access to it to be able to gather that information off of it.

[toddoky]

The truck found its way back to the lab...the wheels are 18" x 8" on front and back and the tires are 225/60R on the front and 250/60R on the rears.

[SEVEN]

I ordered some swap headers, BH13173, but was told today they have been discontinued and no alternative is available. Checked Holley's website and I don't see any long tube headers listed for LS swaps into 67-72 trucks. Already ordered the crossmember and exhaust system to ensure it all fit, but now no headers. Anyone know why?

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by SEVEN

I ordered some swap headers, BH13173, but was told today they have been discontinued and no alternative is available. Checked Holley's website and I don't see any long tube headers listed for LS swaps into 67-72 trucks. Already ordered the crossmember and exhaust system to ensure it all fit, but now no headers. Anyone know why?

That part number has been obsoleted to make way for a new designed header for the same application, which should be close to be getting through its first production run in the coming month.

[72MARIO]

Just a FYI the exhaust system will not work with suburbans. I should have looked closer at my truck. I know it was not specified to fit suburbans. I bought it hoping it would work out
The pick up box floor is raised 3" above the frame behind the trailing arm crossmember. The suburban floor stays flat and the mufflers hit the floor. Between the missing hanger from the exhaust kit and hours on the phone trying to get the missing hanger I am going to have a ton of hours into this system.

What solution did your team come up with for the parking brake cable ?

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

Just a FYI the exhaust system will not work with suburbans. I should have looked closer at my truck. I know it was not specified to fit suburbans. I bought it hoping it would work out
The pick up box floor is raised 3" above the frame behind the trailing arm crossmember. The suburban floor stays flat and the mufflers hit the floor. Between the missing hanger from the exhaust kit and hours on the phone trying to get the missing hanger I am going to have a ton of hours into this system.

What solution did your team come up with for the parking brake cable ?

Hello 72Mario. Yeah, the exhaust systems were developed to specifically fit the short bed coil spring equipped pick-ups only, which is why the long-bed trucks and Suburbans are not included in the application listing for them. The parking brake cables will need to be reconfigured with aftermarket parts made for such purposes, or with parts custom made by the user. I came across a couple of different aftermarket cable systems during my support research for the exhaust systems, but I don’t remember the brand names of those components off the top of my head. A google search should net someone similar results to what I came across.

[Nickelndime]

Any update on the engine stands for a 67 with wide upper frame rails?

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Nickelndime

Any update on the engine stands for a 67 with wide upper frame rails?

They have evidently made it onto our shelves and are awaiting a press release to be sent out to be listed on the Holley website. I would guess they will become visible by the end of the week.

[Nickelndime]

Originally Posted by toddoky

They have evidently made it onto our shelves and are awaiting a press release to be sent out to be listed on the Holley website. I would guess they will become visible by the end of the week.

Sounds great, thank you!

[Nickelndime]

Wow the side exit blackheart system has increased over $200 in price during the couple of months that I've been waiting on the release of early frame stands.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Nickelndime

Wow the side exit blackheart system has increased over $200 in price during the couple of months that I've been waiting on the release of early frame stands.

Make sure you are comparing the price based on the same type of material. The exhaust systems are available both in 409SS and 304SS and there certainly is a cost/price difference between those material choices.

[Nickelndime]

Originally Posted by toddoky

Make sure you are comparing the price based on the same type of material. The exhaust systems are available both in 409SS and 304SS and there certainly is a cost/price difference between those material choices.

No I'm comparing the same 409SS material. A few weeks back the rear exit and side exit systems were priced the same. The side exit system has increased significantly in price while the rear exit has remained the same. I really like the system (side exit preferbly) and felt it was fairly priced, perhaps I'll go for the rear exit before a price increase.