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Old 01-05-2019, 01:26 PM   #1
C101971
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Need help choosing a trans

Now I know this question has been asked a million times but I have not found a thread where all the questions I have are answered so I figured I'll ask my questions and go from there

I currently have an sm465, your not going anywhere anytime soon with one of them... I want it to still be stick shift, closer gear ratios without breaking the bank. I was originally looking into the Chrysler A888 I believe it was? Came on a few Chevy's back in the day and it was a 4 speed with O/D, factory Hurst shifter and good ratio. Problem is they are very hard to find. So I looked into more common 4 speeds, like the t5, t10, etc. Think I fell on the super t10. But the more I talk about it the more people suggest other transmissions to me.

My c10 has 2 bucket seats so shifter location is not an issue. My problem I think I will run into is my motor, gen 1 350, has the old style spline, correct me if I'm wrong, but the super t10 has the later model spline I understand?

Ideally I like manual clutches, I don't mind having to use a hydraulic clutch, but I would like to avoid it.

End of the day question is, will a super t10 work on a gen 1? If not, what are my options as far as a close geared, 4 speed that will mate to a gen 1 sbc?
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:15 PM   #2
rjs53
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Are you trying to do this without getting a different flywheel or driveshaft yoke?
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:34 PM   #3
C101971
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjs53 View Post
Are you trying to do this without getting a different flywheel or driveshaft yoke?
Correct, I don't mind if I have to, but I would like to keep as much components as I can
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:08 PM   #4
Overdriven
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Did some quick research to clarify some things. According to Novak Adapters the sm465 has a 35 spline output and the new t10’s on Summit are 32 spline outputs requiring a new yoke. Inputs are 10 spline on sm465 and 26 spline on t10, so a new clutch is required. A quick search says your stock clutch is 10.5 and Summit shows a bunch of 10.5 clutch kits in 26 spline so you can keep your stock flywheel if it’s in good shape.

For the bellhousing, Novak adapters says your SM465 bellhousing has a 5-1/8 bore while car bellhousings like the t10 is meant for are 4-11/16 bore. To put a t10 in it you will need a spacer ring to take up the gap or a car bellhousing. Some frown upon using the spacer ring unless it’s a really tight fit to the trans and bellhousing since this is indexing the trans to the bellhousing and engine.

Sorry I didn’t do some quick searching before, intended it to be a quick post then I got curious about what I couldn’t remember. Hope this helps. Oh, other options without hydraulic clutch, Saginaw 4spds, obviously Muncie, McLeod has a 5spd but all these need a new yoke and have the same bellhousing issue. But Muncie M20 and M21 both old and those available new, have 10 spline inputs if that matters to you. AX-15’s are pretty inexpensive and have overdrive so they may be worth dealing with a hydraulic clutch.

Last edited by Overdriven; 01-06-2019 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:40 PM   #5
4carbcorvair
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

I have a TBI 350 in my Jeep CJ. I had an SM465 behind it for years adapted to my Dana300 transfer case. This past spring I finally installed an AX15 that i had picked up. I bought the AX15 to larger SM465 bellhousing adapter and ring from Advance Adapters. I also got the adapter for the Dana 300. I am LOVING this 5 speed transmission. First gear is low enough and 5th gear is spectacular on the highway. They are a medium duty transmission. As long as you are not pushing high horsepower or drag racing it, it will hold up perfectly fine.

My 68 K20 has an SM465. IF I decide to replace that trans (I doubt it) I'll probably look at an NV4500.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:41 AM   #6
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

If I'm reading your goal correctly (I might not be), seems like you want an overdrive transmission. ("not going anywhere soon" comment - I assume you mean your rear gearing and the 1:1 final ratio of the SM465 make highway speeds untenable?)

T10, Super T10, and old car Muncies will have the exact same performance on the highway as your current trans as they aren't overdrives either.
The O/D 4-speed Muncie you mention is indeed very hard to find. Had a chance to buy one about 20 years ago and wish I had done so. Oh well...
These guys make aftermarket Muncie O/Ds that might work for you since you have buckets - but I am not that familiar with the company. http://www.autogear.net/motorsports/

T5 is a 5-speed, 5th being the O/D. It's not exactly a heavy duty option, not as strong as your 465. If you baby it and aren't doing burnouts, it's a nice trans, swapped one into a 66 several years ago. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=482069

Personally, I think your best bet is the NV4500 - great gearing w/overdrive and it's pretty heavy duty. Several threads exist on here about how to swap one into a 67-72, just google at the top of the page. But here is one of the best: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=673588

There is no spline associated with the engine - you simply have to have a clutch disk that accepts the input spline count of the trans - and you need a front driveshaft yoke that matches the output spline count of the trans. If you're considering swapping the trans, recommend install a new clutch, pressure plate, input shaft pilot bushing (in the back of the crankshaft (roller bearing pilot bushings are a little over-rated, if you ask me ), and inspect/resurface/replace the flywheel as needed (replace if any signs of heat-related hairline cracks)). If you don't have one - a clutch alignment tool (of the correct spline count to match your new trans input shaft spline count), is a worthwhile investment, even if you plan to only do this once.

If I've misread your goal here - and you just want to know if a Super T10 will work - yes, it will. It's lived behind millions of Gen 1 small blocks and is a good trans. Car muncies will bolt right up as well, as will a T10. But NONE of these will improve your final ratio highway gearing - they will have the exact same performance as the SM465 at highway speeds - so there's really no incentive to switch to one - and you have to cut a new hole in the floor for the rear/left mounted shifter.

If you can elaborate a bit on the reason for why you want to replace your SM465, we can probably help a little more.
Good luck!

Last edited by jocko; 01-06-2019 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:06 AM   #7
painterljp
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Ever think of gear vendor for the original Sm tranny. By the time you buy transmission flywheels new clutches splines yolks and everything else to get 15-20 mph increase. The cost may be about same and you'll have a gear vendor for life. ?? No extra holes in floor? Just a thought and my 2 cents.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:39 PM   #8
basketcase
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Gear Vendors Overdrive for an M-465 is $2995.00.

Tom
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:33 PM   #9
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Ok and by the time you get a transmission what say 700R4. 1500$$$. The dont forget a tranny cooler and so it will shift. Whatever that is called. Say another 200. For that stuff. Probably more like 300. Then someone to install all this stuff another 300$$$ so we are at 2100. For just that stuff. Oh and a new steering column and stuff for that. Might as well spend extra money to get a tilt. Ok a NV4500. What about same 1500. New clutch flywheel pressure plate hydraulic clutch, etc, etc. What 500$$ maybe? About the same really. Cant sell truck without a tranny. But you can sell truck without Gear Vendor on it. And you would be able to recoup some if not all of your money in future. Guess am rambling on so you know what my vote is gonna be. LOL. Spend it now or later?? And look at all gas and motor wear you will be saving. And the best part is truck stays mostly original without more holes in floor. Just save up your money and do it right first time. My vote stays same. Good luck with your decision. Or you can just slow down and smell the Rose's a bit and live with what you got.

Last edited by painterljp; 01-06-2019 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:12 PM   #10
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

I have a Turbo 400 in my '69. I'd love to put a Gear Vendors on it.

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Old 01-07-2019, 09:28 AM   #11
C101971
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Quote:
Originally Posted by jocko View Post
If I'm reading your goal correctly (I might not be), seems like you want an overdrive transmission. ("not going anywhere soon" comment - I assume you mean your rear gearing and the 1:1 final ratio of the SM465 make highway speeds untenable?)

T10, Super T10, and old car Muncies will have the exact same performance on the highway as your current trans as they aren't overdrives either.
The O/D 4-speed Muncie you mention is indeed very hard to find. Had a chance to buy one about 20 years ago and wish I had done so. Oh well...
These guys make aftermarket Muncie O/Ds that might work for you since you have buckets - but I am not that familiar with the company. http://www.autogear.net/motorsports/

T5 is a 5-speed, 5th being the O/D. It's not exactly a heavy duty option, not as strong as your 465. If you baby it and aren't doing burnouts, it's a nice trans, swapped one into a 66 several years ago. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=482069

Personally, I think your best bet is the NV4500 - great gearing w/overdrive and it's pretty heavy duty. Several threads exist on here about how to swap one into a 67-72, just google at the top of the page. But here is one of the best: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=673588

There is no spline associated with the engine - you simply have to have a clutch disk that accepts the input spline count of the trans - and you need a front driveshaft yoke that matches the output spline count of the trans. If you're considering swapping the trans, recommend install a new clutch, pressure plate, input shaft pilot bushing (in the back of the crankshaft (roller bearing pilot bushings are a little over-rated, if you ask me ), and inspect/resurface/replace the flywheel as needed (replace if any signs of heat-related hairline cracks)). If you don't have one - a clutch alignment tool (of the correct spline count to match your new trans input shaft spline count), is a worthwhile investment, even if you plan to only do this once.

If I've misread your goal here - and you just want to know if a Super T10 will work - yes, it will. It's lived behind millions of Gen 1 small blocks and is a good trans. Car muncies will bolt right up as well, as will a T10. But NONE of these will improve your final ratio highway gearing - they will have the exact same performance as the SM465 at highway speeds - so there's really no incentive to switch to one - and you have to cut a new hole in the floor for the rear/left mounted shifter.

If you can elaborate a bit on the reason for why you want to replace your SM465, we can probably help a little more.
Good luck!

Highway gears are fine, really nothing wrong with the trans, it just doesn't feel quite right. Low gear is practically useless to me, 1st is fine where it is, but it seems like I need to rev rather high on the rpms just to have a decent start in 2nd. My goal was hoping to find a trans that has that gear that feels like it's missing in the 465. The ratio gap between 1st and 2nd doesn't feel right to me. I know that's just how it was designed, but I'm just looking for options.
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:23 PM   #12
57larry
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

T10 or Muncie 4 speed would be my choice
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:57 AM   #13
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Quote:
Originally Posted by basketcase View Post
Gear Vendors Overdrive for an M-465 is $2995.00.

Tom
If you have a need and use it... it's money well spent in my book.

I currently have one in my 49 GMC and love it.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:17 PM   #14
p0508
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Re: Need help choosing a trans

Agree on the gear vendors overdrive for the cheapest least involved route. 2nd to the NV4500 swap probably cheaper but more involved.

americanpowertrain.com
https://www.gearvendors.com/hrgm4sm.html
http://www.gearvendors.com/wp-conten...nual_Trans.pdf

Just an example, definitely not the cheapest route nor intended to be, my swap is listed below bear in mind it's all new parts:

T56 Magnum + install kit + hydraulics (includes driveshaft, crossmember) $4713.18
LS7 Magnum clutch kit + Flywheel $541.24
Ebay bellhousing $276.78

=$5500 + and I'm doing it myself so that's no labor involved either.

I'd go gear vendors if I were you, less involved, easily reversible, resale.
If you're dead set on swapping a different trans, NV4500 TKO500 TKO600 T56.
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