Thoughts on how safe our trucks are

[MAC71]

I have a 71 C10 that I bought when I was 16 years old and still have it. It has been a supper reliable truck and has done everything that I have ever asked of it. I have always felt safe in it.
I bought a 69 C20 with a 396 about a year ago and did a bit of work to it and am thinking about giving it to my daughter who loves the truck and will be driving soon.
The truck is reliable and solid, but I have concerns about it safety. I have started doing a few safety modifications such as installing a seat with head rest and shoulder harness seat belts. On the 71 I installed a 31 gal blazer tank and will do the same on this 69 C20 to get the tank out of the cab.
My real concerns are is how will it really hold up in a traffic accident. My thoughts are that in the event of a "intown" accident because it sits up a bit and is heavy it would fair well but I am really worried abut what if she was in a accident on the highway. Its not designed to crush or absorbed a impact and where it does crush it would be crushing into the cab.
What are everyone's thoughts on this and does any one have any rear world experience on this? Here is a few photos of the C20.

[flashed]

I think she would be safer in that truck than a small car or truck just does not have air bags .How heavy traffic will she be driving in ?

[MAC71]

Originally Posted by flashed

I think she would be safer in that truck than a small car or truck just does not have air bags .How heavy traffic will she be driving in ?

Nothing to heavy but there are a lot of country roads that are 1 lane each direction with no divider and the speed limit is 70 MPH.

[MAC71]

The link below if it works is a crash test with a 1959 chevy and 2009. Its is amazing the damage to the 59. This is what really got me thinking about the trucks safety.
I once did a frame off restoration on a 56 belair and it was amazing how light weight all the panels were. There is just no mettle in those old cars. I could easily pick up the frame by myself and load it on a trailer and the body with doors was as easy to pick up as a cab on the 67-72 trucks. I feel that the truck has to be much safer than the 59 used in the crash test, but still not sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_ptUrQOMPs[/url]

[72gmguy]

Yeah that video really shocked me when I saw it years ago! That 59 is an x frame car so a full perimeter frame truck should hold up better but I don't think it stands a chance against a newer car or truck as far as occupant safety.

[notsolo]

Always a tough choice, keeping our kids safe on the road. Every week we get more cars added to the list for defective airbags. A solid truck, Good tires ,Good driving skills, A little weight in the back to keep the rear grounded. A dad that is working on her personal vehicle trying to keep it safe. Your asking the right questions, there is no right answer.

[catch2otwo]

The newer the vehicle, the safer it is. We hate to think that way, but with modern cars comes modern engineering, understanding crash test data, understanding trauma to the human body etc. I think these things are magnified when speeds are increased. At the 70 mph limit you mentioned, the 40 yr old truck is not winning anything in terms of safety or performance. Safety isn't all about seat belts and air bags. How fast can the truck stop at 70mph if something runs out in front of it, or can it swerve effectively to avoid an obstacle.

Tough decision, I daily drove my 68 gmc with manual drum brakes for years but i drove it like a grandma knowing it did not have the capabilities of a modern vehicle. I would be sure your daughter knows its capabilities, maybe do some emergency maneuvers and panic stops in a parking lot to allow her to see first hand what shes working with. Might even show you what the short comings of the truck are.

[Gromit]

Youtube has a lot of the crash tests available - here is an example of some of the late 1960's body on frame cars (and maybe trucks - I didn't watch the whole thing). I did see a C10 crash test but it was a 1978.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siT-SIfOnQw

Some of the euro videos show the same model of car crashing into the same obstacle at the same angle but at 60; 70, and then 80 (which means they crashed three cars of course).

The thing about watching those crash videos is it really brings home the Force = Mass Times Acceleration formula..(F=MA).. Just 10 MPH makes a huge difference.

[davepl]

I think in town they're a substantial vehicle. I would DEFINITELY upgrade to 3 point belts at a minimum.

What worries me is the undivided 70mph country roads you speak of. That is where you're most likely to have a small- or partial-offset frontal collision, which is very hard to defend against.

The best answer is a 5-star rated heavy vehicle, like the new Silverado or F-150. Presuming you don't want to write a $50,000 check very badly, consider a lightly used one from the last generation. There are a number of reasons:

- ABS. Pickup truck panic braking is a nightmare in these light-rear trucks.
- Stability control. Critical in our pickups again because the back comes around.
- Crumple zones. Old vehicles are built strong and transfer the collision to you rather than absorbing it
- Airbags. They save a lot of lives. Yeah, 7 people got shrapnel. 120,000 people died in collisions over that same period.

I wish I could tell you that excellent teaching and a reliable vehicle are all that a teenager needs, but I had an accident as a teen. My wife did. Most of my friends did. My teen son did (minor, in a parking lot, but still). I think most teens will have an accident and better to have one in a vehicle that's made for it.

I love the truck, I love the idea. I just don't think our trucks are survivable in a serious crash and teens have too many serious crashes.

Some will tell you an obvious truth: they drove them and nothing happened to them. They had an accident and did just fine. Lots of people did and survived. But we all know a couple who didn't. The friend I lost in a '65 Falcon at 30mph would have walked away from a newer vehicle.

Remember, your grandfather probably thought seat belts were a communist conspiracy and I wouldn't think of driving without one today. We've come a long, long way, and so have the vehicles.

[Edit: When comparing safety ratings, remember they are always for vehicles of the same weight and size. So a Silverado rated 5 stars is a lot safer than a Sonic rated 5 stars. The Sonic is only 5-star against other Sonics. I think that's some lame political game to avoid encouraging people from driving big vehicles, but I digress...]

Watch this new truck partial-offset collision. Any of our trucks would be dust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGAF2Fmfx2A

[Gromit]

Right after seeing your post; I went to the NYTimes.com website and saw this article about your exact topic; the reporter did a good job thinking up all the factors.. (texting; insurance; crash statistics; etc.)

But no mention of how to factor in a boyfriend that a teen may allow to drive..

Anyway here is what I hope will be a working link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/19/yo...ager-safe.html

I'll try to attach a pdf of the same article for the future readers of your post

[greedy geezer]

The truck is safe, Teach her defensive driving let her know the truck is big and heavy and won't handle well at high speeds 50-70 seat belts upgrade, teach how the truck responds get her driving with you first , The world is dangerous you can't change that but you can impress on your Girl what a privilege it will be to have a nice old truck so Drive safe and take care of it and say a lot of Prayers like I do when I let my Girl drive mine
gg

[ssuesens]

I'm curious about which 3pt seatbelt you went with and why. Any 'lessons learned'?
This is my next project for my son's truck.
You've got a Beautiful truck, by the way.

[flashed]

I dont mean to hi jack this thread but I used Morris Classic belts bought through Matts classic bowtie ,a vendor on this site.The seatbelts are very good quality and are direct bolt in.

[67ChevyRedneck]

They're not. The brakes suck, handling sucks, in stock form, even acceleration sucks, and that doesn't even touch the safety advancements of the last 50+ years. Seatbelts, air bags, crush zones, avoidance systems, ABS, etc.

You have to have respect for these old rides and hope that no one ever hits you the wrong way, and if they do, that it was a little crapbox and not a 2015 Escalade.

That said, you can die just as easily in a new car. Literally happens every day.

Teach her to love and respect the truck and know that you can't wrap her in a plastic bubble. Would you be asking this same question if it was a son?

The two lane 70mph roads have me intrigued... who the hell thought those were a good idea???

Another question you have to ask yourself is are you OK with the truck being damaged? I'm guessing you've had it at least 18-20 years by now? It's a fact that by the age of 18 the vast majority of teens are involved in some form of accident. I totaled a truck at 17 and have an excellent record since. Luckily it was my winter beater and not my C10 (owned it for the last 19 years).

[Eddie H.]

For whatever it's worth, I was rear ended a few years ago while setting at a stoplight in my 70 C10. The smaller car that hit me was totaled. I had a few scratches and 1 dent on the rear bumper and no injuries. A crash at highway speed would be a different story however. A newer vehicle with air bags would definitely be safer.

[joeydurango]

I feel like we as a board dive into this subject at least once a year.

Haven't been in an accident since I was 17 (there's that teenager thing again), in my '77 Nova, but I'm sure glad it wasn't with another car (me VS. roadside concrete culvert).

As for my more recent relevant experience: Built a '72 K10 a couple years ago with all intentions of making it a safe DD that my wife and I could use whenever, wherever. LS swap, 3-point belts, new suspension, new front end, everything that I could think to do. End result: I was uncomfortable driving at highway speeds around other drivers (give me a lonely desert or mountain highway any day), and downright frightened at times when my wife was driving. Realized that yes, modern cars are way safer - and that's part of the problem, because they make us all believe we're sitting in an easy chair and cruising at 75mph down a narrow strip of pavement is no big deal. Worst thing was that my wife didn't even know how bad it could get very quickly, say, if a deer jumped out just ahead or someone crossed the line with no reaction time. She'd never driven anything but modern cars and the intuitive knowledge of how old ones handle just wasn't there.

We ended up selling the K10 and buying a Tacoma. Much safer and I don't freak out every time we drive together. Now I'm looking for a truck just for me, just one to cruise around the local lonely roads and back byways up into the mountains.

Personally, if I had a daughter or son that was nearing driving age, I'd let them spin my old truck around town with me in the passenger seat, but I'd much rather they drove a modern car on their own or on higher-speed roads. My two cents, of course!

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by joeydurango

Haven't been in an accident since I was 17 (there's that teenager thing again), in my '77 Nova, but I'm sure glad it wasn't with another car (me VS. roadside concrete culvert).

I was 17 too... I think I was super cautious my first year because of the statistics and I refused to be one of them. Then after that first year I got "cocky." I rolled my dads truck on a steep gravel/dirt road, cartwheeled it actually... I think 2.5 times landing on the DS facing "up the hill" in the ditch of the opposite lane I was traveling, facing perfectly up hill... oops... I actually wasn't speeding (per the posted limit) but I hit a huge pot hole, wheel turned left... don't remember much after that. And I think it cartwheel so many times because of the hill itself, it was about a 30% incline. I was only going about 40mph when I rolled it, had just shifted into 3rd.


As a side note, I'll add that my C10 has PDB and 3 points belts. I also have a 65 Mustang I added PDB and 3 points as well. The mustang (as it should) FAR, and I mean FAR, outhandles and outbrakes the C10, ESPECIALLY in the rain. The car is smaller and lighter, and while I feel the truck can take a hit better than the car, the car is much more similar to a modern vehicle in terms of braking distances and handling agility. I've taken the Mustang on the Hot Rod Power Tour the last 2 years OVER my C10 because I feel the mustang can handle better in traffic (especially rain) which was proven last year when it rained for at least an hour or two almost every day. We had some really nice weather, but it rained almost every afternoon/evening. I felt "safe" zipping along at 55-65 in the Mustang in the rain, but would have probably slowed to 45-50 in the C10 on the same roads/conditions and had my cheeks clenched...

[69moneypit]

This is my vehicle after an encounter with a drunk driver , never thought about crash test rating etc . I feel like if I had been in my gmc , I wouldn't have made it . I'm scared to even let my kids ride in it . Honestly I'm hesitant to drive it . My son is 18 so I understand your situation . Of course he wanted the antique Chevy . He ended up with a new vehicle with air bags and more safety features.

[69moneypit]

I was doing 40ish , drunk wAs 60 . We hit head on 2 miles from my house . I think it would've bn way worse in an antique truck .

[68 CRACKERBOX]

I personally think you are alot safer in an older truck.than anything new.they were made out of real metal, not plasic and beer cans.as far as seats belts,that is a good thing about the older trucks you do not have to have them. I will not use them. I have rebuilt to many wrecked big trucks where driver would have been killed if they had wore a seat belt. not been able to get out of the drivers seat,I will not be straped in to something where you can't get out of the way.same thing about air bags I unhook them in anything I have.I have seen them kill older people when they come out so hard.So I feel alot safer in an older truck after all it weighs twice as much as most cars today. I will not even ride in these newer little cars.I know alot of you will not agree with me, but this is my opinion. thats my 2 cent for what it is worth.

[zeldman]

Originally Posted by 68 CRACKERBOX

I personally think you are alot safer in an older truck.than anything new.they were made out of real metal, not plasic and beer cans.as far as seats belts,that is a good thing about the older trucks you do not have to have them. I will not use them. I have rebuilt to many wrecked big trucks where driver would have been killed if they had wore a seat belt. not been able to get out of the drivers seat,I will not be straped in to something where you can't get out of the way.same thing about air bags I unhook them in anything I have.I have seen them kill older people when they come out so hard.So I feel alot safer in an older truck after all it weighs twice as much as most cars today. I will not even ride in these newer little cars.I know alot of you will not agree with me, but this is my opinion. thats my 2 cent for what it is worth.

Its also safer to jump out of the moving vehicle before the accident....

I towed vehicles that could have been driven away if it wasn't required at that time to tow vehicles that had a fatality. I last drove a wrecker in 1979.

[The Chainsaw]

A 2010 Camaro weighs more than my C20 does. Most new econoboxes are actually pretty heavy due to all the amenities that are available today.

As far as the materials used to build vehicles, Our "all metal" body panels will not protect you any more than a new vehicle at anything resembling speed. I can kick an old fender and do just as much damage compared to new material.

Yes airbags have caused deaths, but 1 death every million lives saved?

I can't even respond to the seatbelt thing seriously.

Nobody can claim that driving today is even close to when these trucks were being built. I know there were people speeding around those days, but the risks today are not even comparable.


That being said, I am 24 years old and my first car was a 1968 chevelle. Definitely not the safest, but I had the benefit of growing up on a dairy with over a square mile of land. I had years of experience doing dumb stunts around the property before I ever got my license. I absolutely believe that I am a much better driver because of it.

[nds1968]

Hey Mac, Put her in a newer vehicle with air bags and crumble zones for ever day driving. Let her drive the truck on occasions.

Had a friend wreck his 69 Chevelle recently. He broke his ankle and hip. He held onto the steering wheel and bent it into the column. His passenger had her lap belt on; she smacked the dash and received a concussion and had to have some of her intestines removed...

The other driver in a newer Hyundai walked away with no injuries. They hit nearly head on..

[Coley]

Great topic and some really excellent insight and advice here.
One thing you have to take on first...is the fear of something happening....which is the marketed hallmark put to modern parents. The odds of anything happening to your daughter are low...you need to capitalize on that and move it a little lower.
I would seriously recommend investing in advanced driving courses..even competitive. Training, training, training...always pays off....just like all education.
Next...the incredible pitfalls of the smart phone within the vehicle. Young people are addicted to checking and using this things...anywhere, anytime and distracted driving is closing in on being the leading cause of accidents...which is where the current fear factor lies.
If it was my daughter (..and I know it isn't) I would follow her out to the truck every time she left for at least 10 times in a row and ask her to turn the phone off and put it in the glovebox for me...knowing that a block later she would stop and retrieve her phone and turn it back on. However...maybe on the 11th time....she might think about leaving it off. Teens aren't as stupid as many people think...but they have to be shown the meaning in real ways.
Regardless, hopefully you, you're daughter and your family will have an excellent and very safe holiday season.
All the very best and keep us posted on how things work out!!
Coley

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Eddie H.

For whatever it's worth, I was rear ended a few years ago while setting at a stoplight in my 70 C10. The smaller car that hit me was totaled.

That's about the only safe way to get hit in one of these. I know three people who've been hit from the back at high speed. Two had serious whiplash and head injuries (back window), but lived. That's because driven backwards, these trucks have accidental crumple zones called beds.

A respected older (65) friend was a tow truck driver and a race driver - he towed all across the country in a '70 Longhorn and spent years as a wrecker driver in the mountains here. When I talked to him about relocating the fuel tank, he told me, and a paraphrase somewhat:

"Based on the wrecks I've seen in these trucks, by the time the cab is deformed enough to damage the tank you're long since dead anyway". Contrast that with the 2015 Silverado sideways pole hit video. That pole which doesn't even pop the side airbag on a 2015 would cut a 1970 truck in half.

We have cool old trucks that can do hard work. But they ain't safe.

Here's a picture of the LMC three point belts. Normally you'd wear them or stow them, this is just to show they buckles and so on.