CPP Rant !!!

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I would agree to a point.

The washer in this case does not affect the quality or structural integrity of the suspension. Like I mentioned, I've had to use the washers on more than one application. I thought it was unusual the first time I experienced the issue . . ..... but I never had problems w/the fix.

Me too! I have actually taken apart stock suspensions that had washers under the ball joint nut and reused them on the drop spind...

[huero]

Originally Posted by xxl

these bad--



these good--



now shane, isn't the difference obvious?

x2

[Shane]

shims are shims bro ... regardless of shape

[huero]

Say what you want bro but, our trucks never left the factory with washers filling up gaps in the ball joints.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by huero

x2

We haven't met.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by huero

Say what you want bro but, our trucks never left the factory with washers filling up gaps in the ball joints.

Our trucks didn't leave the factory with aftermarket spindles and ball joints either, bro.

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by huero

Say what you want bro but, our trucks never left the factory with washers filling up gaps in the ball joints.

the stock suspensions I have torn apart with spacers do not have washers stacked on top of each other... there was one spacer, probably 1/4 of an inch thick between the spindle and the castle nut... the suspension was BONE stock.... Brah..

[huero]

Originally Posted by Shane

Our trucks didn't leave the factory with aftermarket spindles and ball joints either, bro.

That is my point, bro.
CPP makes crap and they buy the cheapest of replacement parts!
Next time you go and spend your hard earned American dollars, ask the guys at CPP if the parts your are buying are Made in the USA. Say what you want but offshore parts will never be in the same league as USA made parts.
I think the person who made this rant is like alot of us on this site and cares about the smallest of details when building our projects. I understand the washer makes no differance in that application but, I also understand his rant about spending $250 for parts that are inferior to stock pieces. I bet anyone here those CPP pieces will fail in any fatigue test compared to say a 72 stock spindle.
As, if we have not seen enough fabbing required to install CPP parts when they tell you you are buying a bolt on kit.
I am out bro!

[huero]

Originally Posted by c10addict

the stock suspensions I have torn apart with spacers do not have washers stacked on top of each other... there was one spacer, probably 1/4 of an inch thick between the spindle and the castle nut... the suspension was BONE stock.... Brah..

I have also pulled many suspensions apart and have never seen a shim used in a ball joint or any other suspension part other than the shims used for alignment.
O.k. now I'm out!

[XXL]

Originally Posted by c10addict

the stock suspensions I have torn apart with spacers do not have washers stacked on top of each other... there was one spacer, probably 1/4 of an inch thick between the spindle and the castle nut... the suspension was BONE stock.... Brah..

OK, so now it gets even more confusing. Which of the items below is a spacer and which is a washer? I want to make sure my setup only has spacers in it.

Spacers--



Washers--


/no bro from me... I'm an only child

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by XXL

OK, so now it gets even more confusing. Which of the items below is a spacer and which is a washer? I want to make sure my setup only has spacers in it.

Spacers--



Washers--


/no bro from me... I'm an only child

[dieselarmy13]

I'm not jumping in on the spacer/washer/ bro thing, but I will say that I had to spacer/washer/bro my whole front end from CPP. And redrill the dustsheilds that came with the spindles. And buy adapters for my braided stainless brake lines. And had to buy different zerks to be able to grease my tie-rods. No mo CPP fo me. Lesson learned.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by dieselarmy13

And redrill the dustsheilds that came with the spindles. And buy adapters for my braided stainless brake lines. And had to buy different zerks to be able to grease my tie-rods. No mo CPP fo me. Lesson learned.

THESE are the reasons not to deal with CPP.

[huero]

Originally Posted by XXL

OK, so now it gets even more confusing. Which of the items below is a spacer and which is a washer? I want to make sure my setup only has spacers in it.

Spacers--



Washers--


/no bro from me... I'm an only child

Let me explain the difference.
Calling them "shims" would make you think they are acceptable and were made to be on your suspension.
Calling them washers would make you box up all your CPP items and send them back for a refund.
Using these "shims" (that look like washers to me) would make me question the taper between the ball joint and spindle.
I'll try and help with any other questions. Good luck to everyone and their projects and remember this "you get what you pay for" sometimes does not apply as there are plenty of inexpensive items sold with expensive price tags.
I know that we are beating a dead horse here but, I think people need as much info. on items they are debating on purchasing. Some of us save for weeks or months to spend our money for parts, only to get a box full of headaches. Do a little research before you buy and I'm sure you will find enough information to question the quaility sold by some of these vendors.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by huero

I have also pulled many suspensions apart and have never seen a shim used in a ball joint or any other suspension part other than the shims used for alignment.

So if you haven't seen it, then obviously it doesn't exist?

[huero]

Originally Posted by Shane

So if you haven't seen it, then obviously it doesn't exist?

Those are your words not mine. All I stated was I have never seen any shims on factory suspension parts (other than alignment shims) on suspensions I have torn apart. Examples are 67-72 Chevy trucks, Novas, Camaro's, Mustangs, Impalas, Ford F150's (just off the top of my head).
Maybe you can school me Shane and show me a factory service manual that shows a shim between a ball joint and spindle. I will be interested in that.
You keep buying CPP products Shane. It's all good.
To any one else debating purchasing from them, all I can say is buyer beware. A little research should help you out in you decision.
Best of luck, huero.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by huero

Those are your words not mine. All I stated was I have never seen any shims on factory suspension parts (other than alignment shims) on suspensions I have torn apart. Examples are 67-72 Chevy trucks, Novas, Camaro's, Mustangs, Impalas, Ford F150's (just off the top of my head).
Maybe you can school me Shane and show me a factory service manual that shows a shim between a ball joint and spindle. I will be interested in that.
You keep buying CPP products Shane. It's all good.
To any one else debating purchasing from them, all I can say is buyer beware. A little research should help you out in you decision.
Best of luck, huero.

I'm not going to debate the whole shim between a factory BJ & spindles concept since you guys are doing such a fine job.

I will say that I've never used drop spindles from CPP. I have used drop spindles from AIM, Western Chassis, DJM, & Bell Tech. More than one of them required the slight .187 shim to ensure the castle nut & cotter pin were fully engaged. And yes..... the taper of the joint was fully seated in the spindle. So if your against using the 'shims', I wouldn't recommend using aftermarket spindles.

Why they were like this, IDK. But those shims/washers/spacers didn't hurt.

[70rs/ss]

My 3/4 ton front suspension came apart with GM spindles and GM ball joints and a shim between the spindle and the castle nut, and the new balljoint came with a shim in the bag. I am with SCOTI, the shim is a serious non-issue, if you want to bag on CPP go ahead, but the shim is no reason. Drop spindles are made better than the old school OE GM parts since metalurgy has come a long ways since the 60's and 70's, but cheap and junk are not synonomous. I have a set of AIM spindles and pulled them off due to concerns with integrity and they're disclaimer that anything bigger than a stock wheel would void the warrenty.

[kcjones]

I've just read this thread, and I can't comment on the shim/washer thing as I've learned a lesson from it.

However, I can, from personal experience in the very near past, comment on lots of aspects of CPP that I was not pleased with. I've purchased gear from ECE, PerformanceOnline, CPP, Summit, and a few others in the last few months. Each of them for different reasons.

My CPP gear was a rear drop kit, because it was most cost effective based on the other items I needed. I'm not worried the springs and panhard are gonna snap in to or whatever, so I risked it. A couple things happened that make me wish I had just spent the extra $$ and ordered all ECE stuff:

1) All items took 3 times as long to get as any other vendor. And I live in CA (where CPP is).
2) They completely left off 2 parts from my order (it was a kit!).
3) I had to call three times over the span of 2 weeks before I received an actual answer on the missing parts.
4) You do not receive emails for billing or shipping status (even if you request them).
5) CPP instructions are lower quality than any of the others.
6) For every 10 seconds you spend talking to someone, you spend 10 minutes on hold (no exaggeration!).

I don't want to bag them because I think it's fun. I just know that if I ever want to get CPP stuff again, I need to order it long before i need it, and not to throw the packaging away as I may need to send it back.

ECE was top-notch. I'll spend the extra dough next time to get all their stuff!

[lolife99]

That is my EXACT experience with CPP. I'll never do business with them again. They have their "excuses" down to an art form. No kidding. Depending on who answers the phone,... changes the answer you get. I doesn't take long to realize you are being jerked around. I love some of their products. I just wish there was a diffferent distributor for their products.

[no_gas_65]

I am new to the whole classic scene, so for what its worth here are my 2cents on CPP..

what has been said about being on hold for ten minutes is very true. but I just relax watch some tv and put my phone on speaker and wait for the service people to pick up.

I am also a cheap bastard and dont want to pay shipping when I can enjoy a brief drive down to the CPP showroom. I have made this drive twice. First was to pick up a gas tank, which was in stock. I did not personally install the tank, but from what I can see it came out clean.

On my second trip to CPP I purchased a lowering and handling 'kit' which includes front rear sway bars, adjustable traction bar, drop springs and shocks. When I paid for the items the traction bar was not in stock so they had to ship it to me when they got it (free shipping ). I went home with all but the traction bar.

For me, I was not in a rush to install the parts so not having the traction bar was no issue. I called a few times to see the status of my order, I was given fair information and my part arrived when they said it would.

When installing the parts I had a hard time getting the spacers inside the shock bushings but with the help of a vice, everything went smoothly. I have yet to install the sway bars but the parts look top quality and I am pleased.

From reading all of your experiences I may think twice about CPP now and do some more research on the different vendors that are available to us. I'm just glad I found this website

[ron19]

I have also had some "small" issue's with CPP. I'm new to restoring trucks, my 65' has been more than a fun experiance so far. I ordered the power steering conversion bracket kit from them, and received a strange fine thread bolt from them in the kit. It went to nothing and set me back about 1/2 hour to realize this, but I have many bolts in the shop, so no big thing. The next thing was the dust shields I bought from them. One came welded in the wrong position, the center part, so it rubbed on the disk brake. After taking a picture and e-mailing to CPP, they sent me another dust shield right away. Let me take a second to explain that 1st set of dust shields, outside of the offset weld, are very nice pieces, very straight and shiny. Unfortunately, when the replacement one came for the bad weld, an ugly, "stock" type that didn't match the 1st set came, this I could not stand for. After speaking with CPP on this, they immediately sent me a whole set, personnally inspected for quality, like the 1st set, without the bad weld. I have to say, that though I've had some small issue's, their customer service was very apprieciated and they took care of me well. I do get worked up on new parts and want to install them as soon as they get in (I'm like a kid at Christmas waiting for new parts to arrive) but my truck won't be on the road till next summer anyway, so really it was no sweat. I will deal with CPP again because of the personal service they gave me and as far as the quality is concerned, they have good parts.

As for spacers and washers, I have to add this. I race stock cars, 600hp+, up to 140mph, and have had many manufacturer of ball joints and such, putting a washer under the castle nut to get the cotter pin to set right is no big deal. I've been working on stock cars for 15+ years, this is the least of your worry. Just make it nice and use Grade 8 zinc plated, it will look like it was meant to be there.

[kcjones]

FYI: I just installed Western Chassis drop spindles that I received from Performance Online. The lower ball joints were already installed, and they had the cotter pin, castle nut, and "shim" assembled in the box.

This whole shim thing isn't really the best reason to avoid CPP, there are others.

[bluebowtie67]

I shim $100,000+ parts on aircraft all the time.. 2 cents.

[67_C-30]

I'm know I'm late (WAY late) to the whole shim or no shim, bro topic - BUT - when I lowered my '69 last weekend there was a shim/washer under the castle nut on the RH side stock drum brake spindle. The LH side was normal.

For what its worth, bros!