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Old 08-08-2015, 12:37 AM   #26
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

I think we need the final test score.
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Old 08-08-2015, 01:35 AM   #27
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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6.0 is somewhere's around 366.....A 6.2 is around 379. A 7.7 would be around a 454 or something like that. I'd keep the 454. If its running good...why fix something that's not broken?
I'm just trying to see if I can pull a little better with a turbo...
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Old 08-08-2015, 06:27 AM   #28
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

8.2, 4 speed manual, and 3.08 gears. Should get you in the teens if your under 20k and running considerable mileage.
3.42 if your towing moderate/hilly, under 500 mile round trips, with mileage closer to 10.
3.73 or lower if your more into lighting up the tires then towing.

That 1st gear(granny) and a 8.2 will pull anything off the line up to around 15mph. You won't be wining any races 15 to 40. Or 40 to 60. But, above 60 you can sit back, let the engine run quietly, and have plenty of power on reserve.

You could build a 496 (8.1). But if you look there are lots of 500's(8.2) for around a grand(entire 70's caddy) that could be bolted up to a 4 speed muncie for $500 and get mileage in the teens while living a easy long life.

You can tow with a turbo small block. But your going to end up above 2k and need low gearing to keep the thing in the high rpm range where they make torque. A 8.2 or 8.1 can make torque off idle and build it from there. A diesel can do better at twice the engine weight and maintenance cost.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:01 AM   #29
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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Originally Posted by slimneverdies View Post
I'm just trying to see if I can pull a little better with a turbo...
You could put a turbo on the 454.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:56 AM   #30
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

Ok. Gonna throw my 02 here. We tow our boat (4500 # + 1000# gear) with either the 04 Yukon 6.0 or the '63 - 396 ci. I used to tow with a OBS Powerstroke CCLB 350. I have always "felt" it was easier towing with the 1. Powerstroke 2. Big block and lastly the 6.0. Mileage wise the diesel won every EVERY time by alot. That said, the 396 gets about the same mileage as the Yukon when towing. IMO, the bigger engines don't seem to have to work as hard as a smaller one due to longer strokes and heavier rotating assembly. I think a 5.3 is going to have to stay spooled for much longer and in higher rpm range to tow anywhere close to where a mild BB would be and it would probably use as much fuel if not more. The diesel is out of both categories due to way higher compression and higher BTU (energy) rating. I always feel like I'm beating on the 6.0 when towing yet I can comfortably lug the 396 all day long. Just way different set ups geared toward use for different purposes.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:17 AM   #31
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

I didn't read all the posts but here is my experience with the factory 6l in a 2003standard cab 2500hd 4x4 with 4.10s and a nv4500. It always got 14.4 mpg empty and 12 towing light loads, maybe 5000 lbs. It always felt like it was working hard to pull a load and wouldn't maintain on a grade at interstate speeds. After 45 minutes the computer would decide to derate anytime a load was on the truck. I think the LS series motors make great hotrod motors and I am even considering one in my 72 daily driver but I wouldn't have one to tow a john boat. Hopefully programs like LS1 edit can fix what GM screwed up in the computer. I have not been happy with any of GMs programing with a stick shift.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:09 PM   #32
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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You could put a turbo on the 454.
How do you run a turbo with the carbureted 454?? Sounds interesting
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:35 PM   #33
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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How do you run a turbo with the carbureted 454?? Sounds interesting
Can't give specifics, but I've seen many carbed v8's with blow through turbo setups. Its pretty cool.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:00 PM   #34
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

Another 5 year bump....

Pulling the 6.0 LQ4 from my turbo K5, swapping out the radical cam for a super mild grind. Then it's going in my crew cab dually mated to a NV4500 with a GT45 turbo.

The K5 is getting a 4.8, keeping the existing 7875 turbo setup.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:08 PM   #35
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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How do you run a turbo with the carbureted 454?? Sounds interesting
https://vortechsuperchargers.com/pro...nt=35181849034

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Old 01-29-2020, 08:49 PM   #36
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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For pulling, 454 no question. With the the 4.00 stroke it is the best bet over the 3.62 for tq.
Those specs pale in comparison to the fact they both use almost the same size intake ports with massive displacement differences. I could make a longer stroke make less torque no problem.
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:58 PM   #37
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Stock '73 to '95 454 vs stock 6.0....yes I would.

In for opinions...
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Old 04-05-2020, 06:10 PM   #38
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

Still rather have a 454....
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:54 PM   #39
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Re: Stock '73 to '95 454 vs stock 6.0....yes I would.

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In for opinions...
Instead of bumping an oldie... I'd start a new thread.

I pull a 28 foot 5th wheel with a 6.0L/4L80E combo in my 2006 Silverado K2500. Gas mileage is around 10mpg while towing if i'm lucky. Usually closer to 8 or 9. The 6.0L needs RPM just like a Gen 1 small block to pull with. I'm tapped out at 3,500 RPM's on grades and pulling at 53mph. If I ease into it too much, it skyrockets to 6,500 RPM's on a downshift. It's a delicate dance on grades with this combo. Mine is a stock naturally aspirated 6.0L. If you're not trying to pull grades at 70 MPH and don't mind the bellering of a 3,500 RPM pull than this is the engine/transmission combo for you. Adding a turbo or supercharger isn't going to do anything but create more heat, in an already stressed pulling environment. Also downhill engine braking with a NA 6.0L is horrible.

I'm happy with what I have. But if I was pulling a bigger trailer or any kind of decent payloads up and down grades... I'd own a Dirtymax.

I'd use proven stump pulling power of a BBC any day. Upgrading the TH400 to an overdrive 4L80E, would be nice too.

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Old 04-05-2020, 09:24 PM   #40
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Re: Stock '73 to '95 454 vs stock 6.0....yes I would.

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Adding a turbo or supercharger isn't going to do anything but create more heat, in an already stressed pulling environment.

Gary
Isn't going to do anything? Comedy!!!

I guess anyone, in your opinion, who has spent money and any forced induction power adder didn't gain anything but a hole in their wallet?

A properly sized turbo or supercharger, in the correct intended application, is going to aid power and torque production. If you are overheating, then either your cooling system isn't up to snuff and/or you have improperly chosen parts combo.
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Old 04-05-2020, 11:03 PM   #41
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

Turbos are great but you cant just say it's part selection. Small gains can be had reliably but once you start running them hard towing little issues like ring gap and cylinder wall scuffing start showing up along with pump fuel quality and your mentioned heating. We are talking full power use for minutes on end not 15 seconds at a drag strip. I used to have a built cummins that put out 75 pounds of boost and an easy 750 rwhp. It was fun to drive and could really pull but you had an eye on the pyro the entire time to keep from melting it down. Diesels have alot of technology in them to make them live under boost and I had alot of add ons yet still managed to hydraulic a freeze plug right out of the block. I am sorry but I dont see a LS based motor breaking 500hp and living a good long life in an actual towing environment. You can hook a small 5k trailer up and get away with it but you are not going to yank a 15k pound 5th wheel sail down the interstate for long before you start to see issues. If you think I am crazy then why dont you see more dually with gas motors new? A couple grand for a turbo, piping, intercooler and tuning would be nice. I would love to save the 70 cent a gallon diesel fuel premium and the extra 10-15k markup for the diesel drivetrain. Not to mention high dollar fuel filters and 3 gallon oil changes.
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Old 04-06-2020, 12:42 AM   #42
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Talking Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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Turbos are great but you cant just say it's part selection. Small gains can be had reliably but once you start running them hard towing little issues like ring gap and cylinder wall scuffing start showing up along with pump fuel quality and your mentioned heating. We are talking full power use for minutes on end not 15 seconds at a drag strip.
15 seconds on a drag strip? Gotta be the slowest turbo gas truck ever.

I used to tow on a 6% grade for up to 30 minutes at a time with my 2003 Silverado doing 60 mph with the converter locked in 3rd gear. Stock bottom end LQ4 from a 2006 (larger/stronger rods) with GM LS9 head gaskets and a progressive methanol/water injection system for extra safety. This was with a built 4L80e, Yank Pro Truck billet triple disc converter, and Borg Warner S475 turbo, towing a 10k+ trailer. Conservative timing and tuning is the key. Any moron that doesn't have the proper fuel system on a performance forced induction setup is asking for a melted piston or worse.

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I used to have a built cummins that put out 75 pounds of boost and an easy 750 rwhp. It was fun to drive and could really pull but you had an eye on the pyro the entire time to keep from melting it down. Diesels have alot of technology in them to make them live under boost and I had alot of add ons yet still managed to hydraulic a freeze plug right out of the block.
Not sure how diesels got brought into a 454 vs 6.0 thread, but I'll play along.

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I am sorry but I dont see a LS based motor breaking 500hp and living a good long life in an actual towing environment. You can hook a small 5k trailer up and get away with it but you are not going to yank a 15k pound 5th wheel sail down the interstate for long before you start to see issues.
Don't be sorry, you just don't know.

I don't own a LS that isn't pushing over 600 to the wheels on any given day. The LQ4 in my K5 has been making 700 to the wheels in a boosted setup since 2012, put at least 60k on it since then, zero issues and the truck isn't babied.


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If you think I am crazy then why dont you see more dually with gas motors new?
A few reasons, first the EPA/MPG. Secondly they want to push you to make the 10-15k price hike for the diesel option.

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A couple grand for a turbo, piping, intercooler and tuning would be nice. I would love to save the 70 cent a gallon diesel fuel premium and the extra 10-15k markup for the diesel drivetrain. Not to mention high dollar fuel filters and 3 gallon oil changes.
Don't get me wrong, I owned a 2006 LBZ Duramax, and I have been a professional CDL Hazmat, Heavy Haul, 9 axle, oil field truck driver for over 20+ years, so I am not crazy to say a gas or gas/turbo setup is going to make the same power down low or do it with better mpg in the process when it comes to all out towing vs a turbo diesel.

That being said, gas vs diesel, they aren't even on the same level, as you say, in initial price point, ease/cost of maintenance, fuel price, etc.

So if money wasn't an issue, of course I would love to have swapped in a 6BT or Duramax in my squarebody dually. However, the original poster didn't ask about doing a diesel swap either.
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Old 04-06-2020, 06:33 AM   #43
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

Diesel comparisons are because both are internal combustion and make heat. This translates into comparisons with cooling systems, rings, head gaskets, studding, oil cooling, piston coolers, etc. It takes fuel and air.

I to have a CDL and am quite familiar with bigger iron although I dont drive for a living. Heck one of my toys is a 51 Mack L model with a 673.

The question was about 454 vs 6l but I wanted to make the point about mechanical limits. My comments about fuel were not about reliable fueling but reliable fuel quality to push the envelope. I am familiar with timing drop and boost and e85 for octane. To be honest my old 03 2500 would reduce power on the interstate when pulling an empty car trailer after about an hour. I liked the truck but was less than impressed with a 6l. It was stock with a nv4500 and 4.10 gears.

I have no bias against turbos on gas or diesels but when discussing truck apps I will discuss both since they each have there place and towing was mentioned. I have a circle track built sbc in my k20 and love it but it also doesn't tow but it is worked hard. I have a dodge 5500 for towing and it stays at 500hp to make it enjoyable and reliable to drive. It has had 5 tons on the bed atleast 50 times hauling gravel (scaled) and to date heaviest trailer load of 23k lbs. These were legal loads at tires maxed. I wouldn't do that with a gas rig since it's just the wrong application. I would take a turbo powered Ls motor to lowes and get a hack of plywood on the bed in a heartbeat.

I still have the twin turbo 12v sitting in the yard but the dodge part died. It will donate drivetrain to a 57 GMC ton truck one of these days. I have also considered putting an LS in my 72 but keep deciding not too. The 400sb has served it well other than MPG and my 03 only got 14mpg empty.
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:15 PM   #44
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Re: Stock '73 to '95 454 vs stock 6.0....yes I would.

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Originally Posted by Ford Assassin View Post
Isn't going to do anything? Comedy!!!

I guess anyone, in your opinion, who has spent money and any forced induction power adder didn't gain anything but a hole in their wallet?

A properly sized turbo or supercharger, in the correct intended application, is going to aid power and torque production. If you are overheating, then either your cooling system isn't up to snuff and/or you have improperly chosen parts combo.
HAHAHAHA! Huck one on there and tow away! I understand how forced induction works. Don't know why you're even asking the question here then.

Stick the blower or that turbo on that rat and let it eat... It'll outpull that 6.0L anyday.

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Remember Murphys 2nd law of mechanical relationships... "OPPOSING COMPONENTS ATTEMPTING TO OCCUPY THE SAME SPACE, AT THE SAME TIME, GENERALLY END UP OCCUPYING ADJOINING SPACE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OIL PAN"
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:47 PM   #45
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

6.0, 365 torque? Vortec 454, 410 torque. And not pulling at 7600 rpms...
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:58 PM   #46
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

my stock 6.0 pulled 399 torque on the dyno at around 4-4500 rpm..
but its hard to compare 6.0-BB-diesel...they all have advantages and disadvantages
but I'm extremely pleased with the results I got when I went from the 350 to the 6.0 in my C30
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:17 PM   #47
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

It's funny to me how we get spoiled. Little bore straight sixes pulled the world back in the day. Granted not at any speed. Dont waste your money on a diesal unless your actually pulling real weight consistently. Your little boat and your little trailer dont need anything special to pull it. Now if you actually have something heavy to pull around and you do it constantly then yes, you need something better.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:15 PM   #48
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

It all boils down to money and what you would be using the vehicle for the majority of the time.

100% of 4wd owners only use the 4wd 5% of the vehicles life. And where I live they are downright dangerous in the snow.

I would thoroughly look at the usage, how much mileage is on the current setup, and when it will get rebuilt. In that rig your looking at 6mpg, and 10 on a good hair day with tuneup and fresh motor. 454

Everyone is right, doing the LS conversion will cost considerably more money.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:54 PM   #49
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

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Everyone is right, doing the LS conversion will cost considerably more money.
I agree with everything you said....until this.

A decent used junkyard LS find and swap is far cheaper than a towing/RV 454 rebuild.


But if you aren't being smart, i.e. you are buying a brand new Speartech harness vs a converted factory harness, yes you will spend far more than needed.
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Old 04-10-2020, 11:16 PM   #50
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Re: Would you swap a 454 for 6.0 to pull with?

we don't agree but be fair. You can't say a used motor is considerably cheaper than a rebuild. No kidding. Odds are pretty good that if I go to the boneyard and grab a 454 its been rebuilt at some time. Especially if its 25 years old and not in an RV. Just saying.

About a month ago I had a chance to grab a 6l for 1500 with everything for a swap minus trans. It was rebuilt at some point and I am sure that I could have it in a truck for under 3k including tuning. Sometimes you can get a deal. I passed by the way. I needed an axle so my play money was gone or I would have grabbed it.
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