chinese parts

[petzi]

my truck is am 72 GMC sierra grande with a 400 big block. (excuse my everything than perfect english, i am originally from austria). don't let me be misunderstood, i respect china, but i am restoring an american classic and i do not want the parts in my car that let me dislike now a days cars. i noticed that classicindustries and lmc do not care at all what they sell. a lot of their products are crap in my eyes. i just mention the instrument cluster which is not even close to the original. the woodgrain finish does not fit and the letters on it are just chrome and not chrome on black. when i contacted classicindustries about this they told me thats what it is. or the Chinese headline harness whit crapy connectors and whitout a diagram for four headlights and instructions written by a chinese translation program. would it be really a problem if these parts would cost 20% more and would be made in one of the many abandoned plants in detroit?

[dwcsr]

The issue isn't that China can't make a good part, Its that vendors insist on a low cost parts and China gives them what they ask for. Its the importer/retailer that's the issue, they need to insist on a quality part and we need to insist that give quality to use and we don't. We complain here but we rarely send it back with a note saying it not good enough to use. Complaining did work on sheet metal panels. 10 years ago panels were not even close to fitting until more people complained. Now they fit much better.

If LMC got back 20% of an item I'm sure they would have China make a better part. We get in the habit of saying "oh well its a china part so its ok to be crappy" . This is partly our fault to we don't complain as we should when its not up to the quality we want

[Indian113]

Part of the problem is the consumer, if people didn't want cheap parts they wouldn't be able to sell them. All you hear is where can I buy the cheapest part from!!!

[petzi]

sounds logic but keep in mind why things are produced in china nowadays. only because its extremely cheap. the Chinese are good people but have no history in car manufacturing. cheap and quality can not go together. if you want quality you have to pay for it. the disturbing thing is that it is not possible to buy good quality anymore. there is no pressure to produce good quality because there is no competition anymore. every vendor sells the same crap. they buy it for 2 and sell it for 50. they are not willing to pay 20 for a quality part produced in usa.

[Classic Heartbeat]

Part of the problem is the consumer, if people didn't want cheap parts they wouldn't be able to sell them. All you hear is where can I buy the cheapest part from!!!

Well said.

every vendor sells the same crap.

Not true. When venders try to have a part manufactured in the USA, most customers will not step up and by the parts.

they buy it for 2 and sell it for 50.

I wish. If that were true I would have retired a long time ago.

they are not willing to pay 20 for a quality part produced in usa.

We would if enough people not only insisted on American made products, but were willing to buy them.

Problem is the customer looks at a fender for $190.00 made in Taiwan, then looks at the same fender made in America for $350.00. What does he buy?
The $190.00 Taiwan Fender and says I can work with that and save the $160.00.

Sad fact but true. There are not enough guys that are willing to pay the price of made in the USA parts for a company to be able to sell them and stay in business. WES

[petzi]

may be i have a different perspective because i am from Europe. when you go to a shop like home depot in Europe you will find Chinese products on the low end price range but you can buy also products that are still made in Germany or other western countries. thats why wages are high and everybody has healthcare in Europe. Because there is still production there. the problem here seems to be that everybody thinks like @classic heartbeat and does not give the american product any chance. of course I would buy the quality fender that really fits. but where is it? everybody wants cheap and cheaper but what should the workers do in america? it is absurd! nobody has work because everything is made overseas the result is that the people can only afford the crap that is produced there. by the way i hope that the instrument cluster that i bought at classic industries did not cost them more then 2. its not worth more than that. its for the dumpster.

[calvin78612]

Originally Posted by petzi

may be i have a different perspective because i am from Europe. when you go to a shop like home depot in Europe you will find Chinese products on the low end price range but you can buy also products that are still made in Germany or other western countries. thats why wages are high and everybody has healthcare in Europe. Because there is still production there. the problem here seems to be that everybody thinks like @classic heartbeat and does not give the american product any chance. of course I would buy the quality fender that really fits. but where is it? everybody wants cheap and cheaper but what should the workers do in america? it is absurd! nobody has work because everything is made overseas the result is that the people can only afford the crap that is produced there. by the way i hope that the instrument cluster that i bought at classic industries did not cost them more then 2. its not worth more than that. its for the dumpster.

Right on !!

[Indian113]

I ran a motorcycle repair shop for 27 years and I know how the public thinks. People want American quality but Chinese prices. How long would you expect Classic Heartbeat to keep a $370 fender on the shelf waiting for the person that doesn't have a budget and wants a quality part Damn the cost. Most vendors try to sell and stock the best part for the money that they can sell. Over the years I would try to talk people out of some parts because of fitment issues and or quality problems.

We as a consumer have done it to ourselves because we think that item isn't worth the price because that worker making it is getting to much money a hour. The big box stores have helped change our way of life and we've just stood by and watched jobs go overseas because our neighbor was making to much money and I can get the part cheaper from China- Oh yeah it doesn't fit but I saved a couple hundred dollars and now I can buy more Chinese parts!!!

If we would only take care of our homegrown business's maybe just maybe we could get decent parts. I know this is just my Opinion and somebody will disagree but it is my experience in the business world.

[CC69Rat]

I have seen and commented on several Taiwan / China 'B1tchin threads and I must say this is the most honorable of all of them. I just wanted to say thank you, my wife is from Taiwan and I guess I kinda take it to heart when we want to 'blame' China for not being able to make a quality part.

If that fender (or whatever) was in a box that said "Made in the USA" it wouldnt make the quality of the fender any better. Regardless of where it's made until we demand quality and are willing to pay for it we will continue to have companies offering replacement parts at the lowest cost. I'm not going to re-hash on it, you guys have said it well and I just wanted to say thanks. You guys truly get it.

[petzi]

sorry, but i know how it is: I am an GC and when I first been introduced to Chinese bath fixtures, I could not believe it. If I order a container (they sell only by container) of bathtubs they charge 25,- for one bathtub that looks quite like one that would cost me 300,-. In one container are 80 tubs. 10 of them I have to dump right away and the others are still no good. You can not send them back, the freight is more than the product.
this is not the consumers fault like most of the post suggest. It is plainly unethical to sell this products. they are so cheap because the workers there are treated like slaves and the plants do not give a damn for the environment. Of course it has not so much to do with where the part is from. Especially the Chinese and Taiwan are able to produce quality but this products are not sold either because they would cost to much. It is not possible to pay good wages, care about the environment, have quality control and then beat the price of an quality product thats build in america.
It is no problem to explain this to my customers. They do not want bad quality either. I strongly suggest to the vendors to cary quality products as alternative at least. It is not enough to put an american flag an the homepage! I just ask for the possibility to buy a quality part for my american classic no matter where the part is from.

[Classic Heartbeat]

the problem here seems to be that everybody thinks like @classic heartbeat

Boy do you have that wrong guy!! You don't have the slightest idea how I think!! Anybody here or any of my friends will tell you I am a the biggest Flag waving American, that owns and drives only GM products with a son that has been to war 3 times! So don't even go there. I have products made and continue to have more made that are Classic Heartbeat exclusives.. and where are they made? Wright here in America!! But let me tell you, if I had to depend on the sales of my American made products I would have gone out of business a long time ago.
When I first started my business over 14 years ago there were far more made in the USA parts then, than now. What happened to the made in USA parts you ask? Well I will tell you.... The Taiwanese made parts coming into America were so much cheaper that the American companies couldn't compete. Then the vast majority of consumers working on limited budgets purchased those parts instead of their American counterparts. There weren't enough people willing to pay more money for the same part, so the American manufacturer discontinued the part.

It use to be that the average guy couldn't afford to restore a vehicle and if they did, it was only after a 10 year process. Usually after going to countless swap meets, wrecking yards finding used parts or they made their own parts. All for the same reason. New American made parts were too expensive for the average guy to purchase. Now I am not talking about everybody, but most. A lot of people including myself enjoy going to swap meets, wrecking yards and etc. To us it's part of the fun of restoration.

There are countless reasons that we have turned to Taiwan and other countries like them to manufacture the stuff we use in our every day lives. I won't go into them all because I do not have the time and getting political is against the board rules.

The bottom line is..... If you want an American made product then DEMAND IT. If there isn't one made, then don't buy one!! It's that simple... This includes more than the parts you need to restore your truck.
Will you go without a lot of what you have grown accustom to? Yes you will. Will you complete your restoration? Maybe, if you look long enough to find NOS or good originals, then pay a high enough price to purchase once you do.

If the majority of the people would do that, then you would see more products made in the "USA". WES

Technology and product development cost lots and lots of money too and what we have done best over the years. Copying that technology doesn't cost near as much. The cost of labor is only a part of the cost to produce.

[petzi]

i understand every word you say @classicheartbeat. everything is true and i am sure you are a honest man. also my deepest respect for your son!

but there are some things a lot of people do not understand:

1.) every country needs its production. all the new studies show that it is a big mistake to separete production from research. you need to build the products close to research. otherwise you miss a lot of problems and possibilities for improvment
2.) once again. people need to work to earn money. it is not wise to put amarican workers out of work and leave them no other possibility than to buy cheap crap from china or elswhere.
3.) there are a lot of people that are still working and their time is of value. i count the senseless spent hours of trying to match crapy parts to my car and know i would actually safe money, if the parts would fit better and have understandable instructions.
4.) just one question: are you shure that the "cheap" parts we can buy today are really cheaper than the original parts you have sold 10 years ago? how many hours would a average american have to work today to buy the chinese fender and how many hours had he to work for the american fender 10 years ago?

[Classic Heartbeat]

just one question: are you shure that the "cheap" parts we can buy today are really cheaper than the original parts you have sold 10 years ago?

If you are talking dollars and cents... YES
Yes I am, because I have always purchased American made whenever given the choice. When I talk to the manufacturers about why a part was discontinued, it is usualy because the tool broke and it is not worth their time nor resources to make a new one at their currant rate of sales. They know that their part is not being purchased because the Taiwan counterpart is cheaper. If their sales stayed up in numbers sufficiant to warrent producing the part they would. ]

how many hours would a average american have to work today to buy the chinese fender and how many hours had he to work for the american fender 10 years ago?

Again, Talking Dollars and cents.... It was comparitively the same. Only thing different now is inflation and we seem to import more.

Without getting political and into all of the reasons we are where we are today, it boils down to demanding American products. But that also means do not purchase anything that has a forign counterpart. Because if you do, you are just propetuating the issue. So if it's not American made, do without.
Most people choose to do with, than to do without.
I chose to make a living restoring and selling parts and to do that I have to purchase parts made in Taiwan, because there isn't any company in America that is willing to produce the same part for the same money. WES

[petzi]

Originally Posted by zeldman

So to sum it up, big business is not to blame for sending jobs to China, the Chinese are not to blame for taking jobs but instead it is big governments initiative to destroy middle class jobs to better control the people..

i respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with any known fact. the "Chinese" are not Chinese corporations. they are american corporations that moved their plants to china. its easier to exploit their workers there and nobody cares about pollution. side-effect they do not pay taxes there and of course not here.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by petzi

i respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with any known fact. the "Chinese" are not Chinese corporations. they are american corporations that moved their plants to china. Its easier to exploit their workers there and nobody cares about pollution. side-effect they do not pay taxes there and of course not here.

For the purposes of this discussion about truck parts it is most definitely Chinese corporations producing 90% of the parts imported into the US. The vintage after market panel business is controlled by a few family's in Taiwan/China. They have improved quality over the years but still have bad runs of parts such as doors or fenders, it does happen and it does happen here as well. China knows how to exploit workers without our help, they have been doing that for centuries. The Great Wall comes to mind where workers died by the hundreds building it.

Steering columns is a good example, Ididit and Flaming River , great products, made here cost 5,6,$700 for a column, China $120 at my door. One main reason is that you can't really sue a Chinese company if you crash due to a bad column. I imagine that insurance costs for liability and workers add a great deal to the cost of an American column that china does not have to incur. Cost of safety, health care, retirement, Gov regulations none of which China pays is factored into a US made product. One injured worker in the US can wipe a years profit, not so in China. The workers making Iphones were jumping off the roofs to their deaths in protest of work conditions, Chinese company answer,,,, put a net around the building,,,,and get back to work. Here a worker fall off a chair you pay him/her for years while they "go to therapy".

If I can get a good column reasonable quality and a fraction of the cost why would I not go there for manufacturing. If the import columns had another $20 invested into the shift collar it would be every bit as good as a US made column at less than half the cost. Why would I not buy it? But in the US $20 can be the sell it or shelf it margin.

[calvin78612]

It's corporate Greed plain and simple.It's not the fact that no one wants to pay more for quality parts.It's simply the bottom line.

[Josh]

I have cleaned up this thread and am restoring it. Guy please keep it on track about the parts not the government and other off to the side subjects. I respect that politics do play a role in this, however, this is not the forum or site to discuss such things. Please keep the political topics out of this or the thread will be shut down.

[zeldman]

Edited by Staff: Please note that all Political and Religious discussions are against site rules. This policy has been in place since June of 2005.

This is the posted version
Clearly you do not understand English.. Josh has edited this post and you choose to argue.
Perhaps being you are so concerned with Mexico this is their official language same dialogue

Editado por Equipo: Tenga en cuenta que todas las discusiones políticas y religiosas están en contra de las normas del sitio. Este [URL = "http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=162367"] política [/ URL] ha estado en vigor desde junio de 2005.

Esta es la versión publicada

NOW PLEASE NO MORE POLITICS

[Josh]

Wow, I guess warnings do not work. Sorry guys actions of few ruin it for many in this case...