Oil filter Question

[krue]

They still make the tp filter kit, Edb has one on his truck.

[jacobs]

Fram uses:
1. “cardboard end caps” You obviously haven’t ever changed a cartridge type filter....ALL of them have paper end caps. Bottom line...not an issue.
2. “rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan”......Take a look at where a Chevy oil filter is mounted. It’s mounted LOW. Oil cannot drain back into the pan. Chevy cartridge oil filters don’t even have anti-drainback valves. Bottom line...not an issue.


You can compare different filters by their looks till the cows come home but that really doesn’t tell you anything. The only real way to compare filters is by oil analysis. Show us multiple unbiased oil analysis showing the Fram filters are inferior and then the world will be convinced.

[WorkinLonghorn]

^^
Finally a voice of reason. t.y.
I actually saw such a test,can't remember who did it,CR maybe? I'll see if I can locate it and post thr link.

[bobthecop]

Had one of those filter housings, just get another roll of tp and away you go.

[Aarons72s]

Andy, how do you tell the low and high end acdelco filters? I use pf52 ( 4.3 v6) and pf1218( v8) or a wix monster filter(v8). I havent bought the delco monster filter yet but have the part # some where. The pf1218 has the anti drain back valve right? Cause I see the rubber gasket inside it not like the old pf35. Why did they stop making the pf35 anyway? Hay is there a monster filter that can be used in place of the pf52?

[1969 GMC]

if you would have read my post, you would have seen its the 932. i know i'm not longhornmail so you probably don't believe me, but you can check at the local parts store.

the cartridge filters dont have an anti-drainback valve because they are a full flow filter, not a bypass like most spin ons. some of the larger wix spin ons are full flow (I have the 2 qt. wix filter on my Ford, its a full flow design).

[jacobs]

Originally Posted by 1969 GMC

the cartridge filters dont have an anti-drainback valve because they are a full flow filter, not a bypass like most spin ons. some of the larger wix spin ons are full flow (I have the 2 qt. wix filter on my Ford, its a full flow design).

All Chevrolet cartridge filters used on their V8's from 1956 thru 1969 were ALL full flow filters. 1970 and later spin-on's are also full flow filters. The reason anti-drainback valves were used on full flow filters whether spin on or cartridge is when they are mounted on an angle on the side of an engine, above the oil pan, oil would flow back down into the pan after the engine was stopped and would thus give an inaccurate oil level when checked. Whether or not a spin on or canister full flow filter has a anti-drainback valve depends on where the filter is mounted. THEY ARE NOT NEEDED ON CHEVYS.

Anti-drainback valves were never used on bypass oil filters. 99% of all bypass filters are cartridge type filters. Bypass oil filters are seldom seen anymore except on pre 1955 autos.

[jake60]

Originally Posted by jacobs

All Chevrolet cartridge filters used on their V8's from 1956 thru 1969 were ALL full flow filters. 1970 and later spin-on's are also full flow filters. The reason anti-drainback valves were used on full flow filters whether spin on or cartridge is when they are mounted on an angle on the side of an engine, above the oil pan, oil would flow back down into the pan after the engine was stopped and would thus give an inaccurate oil level when checked. Whether or not a spin on or canister full flow filter has a anti-drainback valve depends on where the filter is mounted. THEY ARE NOT NEEDED ON CHEVYS.

Anti-drainback valves were never used on bypass oil filters. 99% of all bypass filters are cartridge type filters. Bypass oil filters are seldom seen anymore except on pre 1955 autos.

If you have a remote mounted oil filter, you’d better make sure you use a filter with an anti-drainback valve.

[Skip Greaney]

The bonding comes apart in Fram where it is glued together and everything gets through, also it is shorter material with a spacer inside to look like a 1 quart filter...like Longhorn Man says cut one open and look and you'll never buy another one. The spacer sits at the bottom and supports the filter material because it does not go to the bottom of the "can"

[jacobs]

Originally Posted by Skip Greaney

The bonding comes apart in Fram where it is glued together and everything gets through, also it is shorter material with a spacer inside to look like a 1 quart filter...like Longhorn Man says cut one open and look and you'll never buy another one. The spacer sits at the bottom and supports the filter material because it does not go to the bottom of the "can"

I have cut my 2 quart Fram filter apart and I've seen no problems with them. The space at the bottom is good. It allows dirt to settle to the bottom. They can't be too bad when I've gotten over 275,000 miles using nothing but Fram filters w/o any problems. In fact, I've NEVER opened up my engine in all these miles. If they are so bad, surely I would have had problems. I'm still asking for an umbiased oil analysis to prove these rumors. Until then, they are UMPROVEN RUMORS AND THAT'S ALL THEY ARE!

[Spray-Bomb]

Wix for me

[Longhorn Man]

OK... tomorow, I'll go and buy a fram oil filter, and I'll get a WIX, and I'll cut them both open, and SHOW the difference.
I'll also see if I can get the independant lab that we deal with to make an official statement. They generally decline.. info not for public use... what ever.

[krue]

Don't argue politics, religion, or oil filters.

[truckdude239]

i will never run a fram filter

[GREASEMONKEY72]

TO EACH HIS OWN,...brother and dad always run fram filters with no problems and we run a fram on the race car and ive ran frame since i got my truck and no problems AND also my buddy and his dad always run fram and again no problems

[GREASEMONKEY72]

my buddys dad same as above had his lil blue toyota truck for over 20years on fram and ran fine

[Ole Blue 68]

Originally Posted by krue

Don't argue politics, religion, or oil filters.

Who'd a thunk a $5 part would spark such controversy?

[jacobs]

Believe it or not, I’m not necessarily a Fram fan, I use it out of convenience. The local store where I purchase my filters just happens to carry Fram and it ain’t Wal-Mart. Fram has fulfilled a job I needed done, and to me, has done it well. You can cut open all the filters you want to but the bottom line is how well does it filter based on an unbiased oil analysis or maybe a report from the Society of Automobile Engineers like they did on oil bath air filters vs. dry elements at http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/680536 . I don’t think Fram filters any better or worse than any other major filter manufacturer. If a person wants better filtration, you need to install an aftermarket bypass oil filter.

It’s just like the old debate about which brand of spark plug is better or which ignition is better. For 99.99% of all applications, if it sparks, it will ignite the gasses. It doesn’t matter if the spark is 1/8" long or 1 mile long.

It’s amazing the power of advertising. People have quit thinking for themselves. Advertisers now do our thinking for us. Whatever happened to “critical thinking” that was taught years ago in school?

[Critter]

Ok I figure I will jump in with some comments. First, I am a Mechanical Engineer which doesn’t mean that I know anything about anything. However, I have a few friends at a place called Southwest Research Institute here in San Antonio www.SwRI.org They are basically an independent research organization that tests everything from Caterpillar engines, to Space Shuttle components for people all over the world, military included. Some of my friends are pretty high up test engineers for the oil department. All they do is test oil, filters, additives, etc. Long story short, all they use in personal vehicles are Wix. That’s good enough for me. Also, I personally work for an “unnamed” auto manufacturer. Just because something comes factory on a vehicle doesn’t mean that it is the highest possible quality. It just means that it was the cheapest part that met the minimum requirements of design. It might also mean that the auto manufacturer owns 15% of the part manufacturing company. Anyway, I’ll get off my soap box, if you’ve had good luck with something for 20 years and 300,000 miles then you have no reason to change. To each his own.

[jacobs]

Originally Posted by Critter

Ok I figure I will jump in with some comments. First, I am a Mechanical Engineer which doesn’t mean that I know anything about anything. However, I have a few friends at a place called Southwest Research Institute here in San Antonio www.SwRI.org They are basically an independent research organization that tests everything from Caterpillar engines, to Space Shuttle components for people all over the world, military included. Some of my friends are pretty high up test engineers for the oil department. All they do is test oil, filters, additives, etc. Long story short, all they use in personal vehicles are Wix. That’s good enough for me. Also, I personally work for an “unnamed” auto manufacturer. Just because something comes factory on a vehicle doesn’t mean that it is the highest possible quality. It just means that it was the cheapest part that met the minimum requirements of design. It might also mean that the auto manufacturer owns 15% of the part manufacturing company. Anyway, I’ll get off my soap box, if you’ve had good luck with something for 20 years and 300,000 miles then you have no reason to change. To each his own.

Southwest Research Institute did the testing for SAE on the air filter tests. I have high regard for them.

One question, are there any reports available and did your friends say how much better one filter is over another as to how well it filters? Just because one filter filters a little better than another doesn't mean the underdog is bad.

Like I previously said, If you want the best filtration, install an aftermarket bypass oil filter.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by jacobs

One question, are there any reports available and did your friends say how much better one filter is over another as to how well it filters? Just because one filter filters a little better than another doesn't mean the underdog is bad.

Good point. It’s been a while since I’ve talked over any details with them. Best I recall none of the brands actually “failed” any tests, they just said that some were better than others. I do recall them saying that Fram was at the bottom of the barrel. Not kidding. I’ll see if I can give someone a call for some more info.

[b&a72]

What is the Wix filter number for our trucks?

[Critter]

The standard for a Small block Chevy is # 51061. There is another one # 51069, that I believe is about 1” shallower that's used on El Caminos and some cars. Some of you guys dragging the pavement might be interested in it.

[Sammy]

Interesting replys in this thread. Similar replys if you discussed oil brands, oil additives. I took a tour several years ago thru a Penzoil cannery. While I was there they changed weights of oil from 30w to 10-40 w. When I asked the person keeping an eye on things how he knew, I still wasn't convinced those last 12 qts were 30 w or 10-40w. Only difference I could see was the label on the container.

[jacobs]

I found the abstract on this SAE paper at http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/860547 very interesting. Evidently even the SAE understands the need for better filtration than any available full flow oil filter provides.