S10 Swap how to

[Doranged]

Originally Posted by joedoh

its the engine. the GMC engine is 2 inches longer, and the radiator was mounted inside the core support, instead of behind it like a chevy, to allow for this extra length. the difference can be seen in the front engine crossmember, you cant put a chevy engine on a gmc crossmember.

otherwise the sheetmetal is the same, you can use GMC sheetmetal on a chevy and vice versa, as long as you have ALL the front end parts.

a big block uses the same mounts and mount distance as a sbc, so ideally if you set the mounts up for one it should clear the other.

Thank you very much that clears things up for me. I have always been a SBC guy so I never really done anything with a big block. But I have this 454 that runs good and figured old junk hot rod truck + old junk big block 454 = win

[Doranged]

Would it be of any benefit to cut s10 firewall out where pedals and master/booster mounts and weld it into the AD truck? As a note I personally want a manual trans so I'm going to need the clutch as well. Has anyone else went with a manual trans?

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Doranged

Would it be of any benefit to cut s10 firewall out where pedals and master/booster mounts and weld it into the AD truck? As a note I personally want a manual trans so I'm going to need the clutch as well. Has anyone else went with a manual trans?

I do that in all of mine, I like welding in the "complex" holes that would be hard to duplicate, like the harness pass throughs.

IMG_6198 by Joe Doh, on Flickr


I am doing a 5 spd 41 this time and I think sometime next week I will build the pedal system.

[Black93GT]

Yea I swapped a manual in mine.

I used a 327 from my '67 camaro, ditched the powerglide and found a T-5 from an '85 camaro for cheap. I fabricated linkage to keep the original shifter and repurposed a hydraulic master cylinder/ throw out bearing from a different project that didn't happen.

I used the s10 brake booster and pedal bracket. I just drilled the firewall and didn't reinforce the it. Although I attached the pedal bracket to the steering column bracket for support.

I guess I should update my build thread.

[Speedysdad]

Building my radiator support, I noticed my 19x22" radiator is tight against the nuts welded on the inside of the uprights. The nuts have to stay to bolt to the fenders, right? I can spread tthe bottom a little to gain some room, but I may need to bend in the tanks a little to get it to fit without rubbing. Any other suggestions?

[Black93GT]

Yes the nuts are to mount the fenders. Just use shorter bolts so they don't extend past the nuts. I may be lucky to have 1/8" between the bolts and radiator end caps. I had to center my radiator and triple check the spacing before welding my brackets to the end caps.... But it just fits.

As far as motor placement... Mine is set as low and as far forward as possible. My oil pan has about 1/2" clearance from the crossmember. I used the lower version of Sarge's cab mounts and had to adjust the rear position/height of the transmission to get it under the tunnel without modification.

[Speedysdad]

Thanks 93blackgt for the response. That does help with engine height, apparently my headers are going to have to govern that. My radiator is just a little wider. I will find a way to make it work.

[joedoh]

I did this on my 49. the rad is too wide to fit without modification but you can get it in exactly the right position to clear the power steering hoses and the hood. I used the s10 condenser too , but the evaporator and blower do not fit under the hood, its about 2 inches wide from fitting between the engine and the hood. instead I used a blower box from a 98 tahoe, it barely fit between the dash and the firewall and the vent distribution had to be removed (too wide) but the s10 controls controlled the fan and the blend door.

here is a couple pictures of the mods for the radiator. the s10 radiator mounts to some rings with a rubber grommet on the bottom and a simple clamp on top, you can see the rings in a couple pictures.
IMG_3555 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
IMG_3556 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
IMG_3767 by Joe Doh, on Flickr

make sure you rebuild the lower air director to funnel the air ONLY through the condenser/rad, otherwise it will just take the path of least resistance UNDER the condenser/rad. I used a plastic material called kydex, its very flexible but also very strong, its like a thinner, stronger ABS. Its not available everywhere, we have a surplus store that always has a couple sheets.

[KRFitz]

Thanks for the reply and photos. Much appreciated. I will also explore what may be available to purchasing new to get into a smaller rad/condenser, but I now know this is an option. I'm sure I will have a million more questions. How about fitting the drive shaft...if the motor has to be moved back 8", does the front shaft get a section cut out? Not sure why they went with a 2 piece drive shaft on these trucks? Thanks

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by KRFitz

Thanks for the reply and photos. Much appreciated. I will also explore what may be available to purchasing new to get into a smaller rad/condenser, but I now know this is an option. I'm sure I will have a million more questions. How about fitting the drive shaft...if the motor has to be moved back 8", does the front shaft get a section cut out? Not sure why they went with a 2 piece drive shaft on these trucks? Thanks

replace it with a one piece shaft, usually you can find one that is close in length, for example a longbed driveshaft is usually 64" overall and a reg cab colorado driveshaft is 54" long. when you factor in that lowering the rear makes the driveshaft shorter (lowering an s10 you usually shorten a driveshaft 1" to keep the yoke from cramming into the trans) so 54 is almost perfect.


measure your driveshaft to be sure, center of u joint to center of u joint. I dont recommend shortening the two piece because the front shaft will end up ~12" long and you will want to replace the carrier bearing while you are working on it, might as well just put that towards a one piece.

[gigamanx]

As a guide if anyone is interested in what measurements you end up with using a 4 1/2" front cab mount and how it affects ride height and all the other measurements. Measurements are without any suspension modifications. The cab mount also has a 1/2" rubber mount on top for a total of 5" from top of frame to bottom of the cab cross member that contains the mount hole.

[KRFitz]

Thanks for posting the measurements. Is this the typical tire sizes guys are using front and back? Not that there's a standard, but what have you found works well for wheel sizes for a lowered look?

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by KRFitz

Thanks for posting the measurements. Is this the typical tire sizes guys are using front and back? Not that there's a standard, but what have you found works well for wheel sizes for a lowered look?

Diagram doesn't have the front tire size I would go for, but that's what is on the car so I had to take measurements from there. I'll probably update the diagram when I get a new front tire. The rear ones are new and I did enough research of various builds that the average tire diameter is 29" for the front and rear. The size does fill the rear fender out fairly nicely and tucks in well for a lowered truck.

Tucked in with the right spacers and 2" drop spindles, 29"x8" front tires seems to be the consensus, but I haven't tried that myself yet to confirm that there is no rubbing.

Borrowed from a different thread:

Originally Posted by joedoh

the rear tire is a 235/75/15, I like that tire on almost every truck

[skymangs]

i beg to differ, i have used two piece shafts and old carrier bearings many times and never had a problem i just shorten the front half, and it is NEVER anywhere near 12" long! works out nicely, cause you don't have to mess with moving the carrier bearing.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by skymangs

and it is NEVER anywhere near 12" long!

looks like you are right, 12" would be much longer than the actual measurement. my comment was actually about cost, a rcsb driveshaft is $50-60 in a salvage, shortening a two piece would be double that and you would probably replace the carrier "while you were in there"

[ThadandDad48]

Glad to see this thread is still active. My 14 year old son and I are currently working on a swap just like this have built cab mounts very similar to the design shown only using 4" square tubing (son actually did all the welding to assemble the mounts. have moved the motor into position and made mounts and are currently working on the core support.
All the info here is great look forward to getting this truck together and running. We are using the 4.3 vortec out of the 1998 s10 we purchased and using the 4L60E that was behind it. Also had a 2001 short bed we used as a frame donor stretched it to 116" as others have previously mentioned. The short bed had no engine or tranny when we purchased but did have the old tranny cross member in the bed which I was able to rework to act as a trans support and only had to drill 2 holes in the frame. Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by ThadandDad48

Glad to see this thread is still active. My 14 year old son and I are currently working on a swap just like this have built cab mounts very similar to the design shown only using 4" square tubing (son actually did all the welding to assemble the mounts. have moved the motor into position and made mounts and are currently working on the core support.
All the info here is great look forward to getting this truck together and running. We are using the 4.3 vortec out of the 1998 s10 we purchased and using the 4L60E that was behind it. Also had a 2001 short bed we used as a frame donor stretched it to 116" as others have previously mentioned. The short bed had no engine or tranny when we purchased but did have the old tranny cross member in the bed which I was able to rework to act as a trans support and only had to drill 2 holes in the frame. Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

I had used the 4x4 tubing at 4 1/4". Worked a charm. I did cut a little notch from mine and glad I did. It barely clears the edge of the lower cab corner when lowering the cab onto them. Feel free to check out my project build for a core support mount.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by ThadandDad48

Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

I have made a big interface bracket on a couple trucks to use the 98-03 pedal bracket but I have changed my tune lately, its very heavy and needs a lot of reinforcing.

If you want a simple brake pedal setup, skymangs shows how to use a 82-93 s10 pedal bracket on page 2.

[Black93GT]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I have made a big interface bracket on a couple trucks to use the 98-03 pedal bracket but I have changed my tune lately, its very heavy and needs a lot of reinforcing.

Wow... More power to you. I took a look at the one in my 98 donor truck and knew within seconds it would be too much work. (Granted, making 82-93 pedals straddle the column to match the original spacing wasn't light in the fabrication department either)

[Black93GT]

Originally Posted by skymangs

i beg to differ, i have used two piece shafts and old carrier bearings many times and never had a problem

That's how I made it work. I actually used one half of a 4wd drive shaft and the other was from a 2wd. I had to fabricate a bracket to set the carrier bearing back. It won't be my permanent solution but was able to make it work for free and right away.

[1952ssr]

A drive shaft from a late '90's caprice or roadmaster will work fine using a V8 and 4L60 tranny if you want to go with one piece.

[skymangs]

this is a shortened 2 piece driveshaft, no where near 12" long with the original carrier bearing. we have been driving it for over 4 years now, so don't tell me it can't be done! cost about $100 to have a driveshaft shortened/balanced. i don't know about you, but i don't have time to go scrounging around a j/y every build.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by skymangs

i don't know about you, but i don't have time to go scrounging around a j/y every build.

scrounging? I call them on the phone and say I need this driveshaft. the last one was 60 bucks and wasnt any more driving than it takes to go to the driveshaft shop, and I had it to install the same day. add to that, the 98+ longbeds came with a one piece shaft, so they dont even have a carrier bearing crossmember.

I can agree to disagree, but dang if it doesnt seem like your way is the "more money more work more time" way.

edit: and I am looking again, your trans is a TH350 which is shorter than the 4L60e in my picture.

[frankist]

Thanks for the diagram Gigamanx, not 100% sure what motor you are going with Speedysdad, but if 5.3 vortec, rear dump camero headers that skymangs mention is the way to go. I tried a few different option and found that those fit best with the correct outlet direction giving a lot of room to wiggle the motor to its final destination. With those headers and skymangs designed motor mounts, my one piece driveshaft did not need the center support bearing mount modified or removed. Hope this helps, can provide a picture if you need one.

[OutlawDrifter]

Meh, I removed mine completely. My tranny x-member is pretty heavy and makes up for it though.