Why all the hype about horse power and torque?

[davepl]

Originally Posted by truckster

I haven't seen anyone else talking about two-footing it in the cold because that's what real men do. The OP was looking for simple. It doesn't get any simpler than replacing the stock carb with a remanufactured carb of the same type.

Yeah, and if you read my post (#3), that's what I told him and I even gave him a part/casting number for it. Then people chimed in with the theory that they don't need to run well because they're old. It's up there.

[396C-10]

Wow! What a response! 1st off, THANK YOU all for your input, I wasn't expecting a wealth of information like this.
What I have going on was a transplant, where I removed a straight 6 three on the tree and installed a big block 396/402 from a 70 Chevelle.
I did not have a carburetor when the engine was built, so I bought a Holley 0-3310S 750CFM 4bbl Carburetor brand new.
It ran like crap, so I sent the carburetor to a NASCAR guy to tune and dyno for me. What I got back was way over the top,
though I paid him the $400.00 and happily brought the carburetor home and mounted it to the intake.
I do not plan on drag racing and I have yet to run the modified carb, but I think this is way, way too much carburetor for my needs.
I am thinking the ROCHESTER QUADRAJET 7040206 is more in line with my plans and I will put my new Williams Built Holley in a glass case to be viewed by my buddies.....

[396C-10]

It looks great, and I am sure it will be great for the 1/4 mile, but I'm not planning on racing it... I will test it out to see how it runs, but I still think this is way too much carb.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by James the III

The difference is the edel is a vacuum 2nd carb and only mildly tune able.

The holley either in vacuum 2nd (street) or double pumper (street/strip)
is you can tune everything on it..

The q-jet is in the same boat as the edel.. as far as user tuning but has tiny primary bores for crisp throttle response and flipp'n huge 2nd's..
and when tuned correctly will run as good as the holley . most times better..

Holley claim to fame is K.I.S.S. and user changeable parts to tune it to your app.

Think of it this way, your shower head the q jet is the fine mist, the holley is the thick streams..
holley dumps the fuel, the edel and q-jet meter it..

I feel I definitely lost power with the Edelbrock. It had a perfectly good Rochester. I still have it. I had never serviced a carb. before and needed a choke very soon. The mechanic talked me into the Edelbrock. He said he's not a fan of Rochester, but more than that I bet he just didn't want to deal with it. Since then I've discovered you can add an electric choke onto a Rochester. I don't know if that would require the heat stove & pipe, but I'm guessing not.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

I feel I definitely lost power with the Edelbrock. It had a perfectly good Rochester. I still have it. I had never serviced a carb. before and needed a choke very soon. The mechanic talked me into the Edelbrock. He said he's not a fan of Rochester, but more than that I bet he just didn't want to deal with it. Since then I've discovered you can add an electric choke onto a Rochester. I don't know if that would require the heat stove & pipe, but I'm guessing not.

You're correct. All the electric choke requires is 12 volts.

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by 396C-10

It looks great, and I am sure it will be great for the 1/4 mile, but I'm not planning on racing it... I will test it out to see how it runs, but I still think this is way too much carb.

Attachment 1625421

What a waste of a good carb!!
Don't matter what you run for a carb, your intake choice and likely a lack of timing will make it run like crap.
JMHO.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by truckster

You're correct. All the electric choke requires is 12 volts.

The mechanic is an old gent, but he's somewhat a hustler. To think I got a new carb. when all I needed was a (*^()^ electronic choke for a legit Rochester. I won't use that guy again, except.........

His shop is SPOTLESS and I know one of the mechanics. About 100 years experience between the two. They work on top restorations all the time, and have a board to hover over engine bays. It's a VERY cool cart. At any rate, once this project is ready to fire, the first key will be in his shop.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by 396C-10

It looks great, and I am sure it will be great for the 1/4 mile, but I'm not planning on racing it... I will test it out to see how it runs, but I still think this is way too much carb.

Attachment 1625421

I'll be that's quite a carb. I don't know if there's a difference less part numbers, but my Rochesters are:

The correct model is 4MV
1971 402: 7041209
1972 402: 7042206

[James the III]

Originally Posted by 396C-10

Wow! What a response! 1st off, THANK YOU all for your input, I wasn't expecting a wealth of information like this.
What I have going on was a transplant, where I removed a straight 6 three on the tree and installed a big block 396/402 from a 70 Chevelle.
I did not have a carburetor when the engine was built, so I bought a Holley 0-3310S 750CFM 4bbl Carburetor brand new. Attachment 1625412
It ran like crap, so I sent the carburetor to a NASCAR guy to tune and dyno for me. What I got back was way over the top,Attachment 1625413
though I paid him the $400.00 and happily brought the carburetor home and mounted it to the intake.
I do not plan on drag racing and I have yet to run the modified carb, but I think this is way, way too much carburetor for my needs.
I am thinking the ROCHESTER QUADRAJET 7040206 is more in line with my plans and I will put my new Williams Built Holley in a glass case to be viewed by my buddies.....

Welp he got your new carb and sent you back a worked over used one..

[James the III]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

I feel I definitely lost power with the Edelbrock. It had a perfectly good Rochester. I still have it. I had never serviced a carb. before and needed a choke very soon. The mechanic talked me into the Edelbrock. He said he's not a fan of Rochester, but more than that I bet he just didn't want to deal with it. Since then I've discovered you can add an electric choke onto a Rochester. I don't know if that would require the heat stove & pipe, but I'm guessing not.

Yup most likely didn't want to deal with it as he can't make any money..
the time it take him to rebuild it, and it still have a vacuum leak at the throttle shaft that he didn't fix would make a customer mad..

bonus is the part mark up on the new 300.00 carb.. the shop got for 30 minutes of work..

In and out and most customers will not care as long as it stars and runs correctly..

If he is an older guy he also had had to deal with the plugs in the base leaking and having to fix, and all the other issues that would take time to fix before he sent it out the door with his name on the work..

better for him to pop on a new carb and call it good..

Same reason shops don't rebuild starters,alt,water pumps, ect they make more just replacing them..

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by franken

Torque has units, HP has none.

This is almost as good what brand of oil is best.

When it comes to horsepower and torque measurements, one is no good without the other.

[hamjet]

WOW! thats a far cry from a big block sewing machine that was posted in your 1st thread..

[LongBox]

This thread was sure not what I expected when I read the title "Why all the hype about horsepower and torque." Lots of good information on carbs here, but some guys really do want a vehicle that has lots and lots of acceleration, and they are prepared to live with hard starting, lumpy idle, etc. etc. etc.

My 350 on the 69 has the stock Q-Jet, and despite the potential in the design of that carb (small primaries), the truck gets really lousy gas mileage. I don't think anybody cared back in the 60s. So, for the OP, getting the factory stock, smooth idling, easy starting, sewing machine carb might mean poor mileage, when it doesn't have to be that way. Things have improved since the 60s.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by LongBox

This thread was sure not what I expected when I read the title "Why all the hype about horsepower and torque." Lots of good information on carbs here, but some guys really do want a vehicle that has lots and lots of acceleration, and they are prepared to live with hard starting, lumpy idle, etc. etc. etc.

My 350 on the 69 has the stock Q-Jet, and despite the potential in the design of that carb (small primaries), the truck gets really lousy gas mileage. I don't think anybody cared back in the 60s. So, for the OP, getting the factory stock, smooth idling, easy starting, sewing machine carb might mean poor mileage, when it doesn't have to be that way. Things have improved since the 60s.

This used to be true.. and still is somewhat, there is a Draw an addiction to being in control of the reins of a bucking bull.. and the adrenaline rush. of that bull in the china shop v8..

but today you can build a mild mannered just as powerful turbo'd v8 that is smooth but goes like stink..

Asking a carb designed for mileage to work on a hipo v8 and still do that without getting into it.. is well.. um.. not going to happen..
the q-jet unlike the holley you can't just unscrew and change air bleeds, etc.
it takes knowing what it needs/wants and getting it right the 1st time..
Many don't have that skill.. but everyone at any show thinks they do with a holley.. key word think..
The best thing to come along is the a/f meter and data logging.. so you can see what it's doing and adjust it with data to back up it, not just a guess..

[palallin]

It is possible to set up the Q-Jet to get good mileage if you set it up to keep from opening the secondaries till you need 'em. To many q-Jets go down the road with the secondaries partly open.

[70cst]

Originally Posted by truckster

I haven't seen anyone else talking about two-footing it in the cold because that's what real men do. The OP was looking for simple. It doesn't get any simpler than replacing the stock carb with a remanufactured carb of the same type.

I would agree

[davepl]

Originally Posted by 70cst

I would agree

Does this sound like someone concerned with cold start driveability:

Your mom and my mom who drives a camry most likely forgot what it was like with older vehicles, that you back then, started and waited a few minutes before popping it into gear.. Today they get in and go..

The removing the other factory equipment will cause cold start/run issues.. but that only matters if the vehicle gets started and run in the cold..

Stuff like that.

[special-K]

The writing on the wall on that carb was "had a Nascar guy build my carb". If all you did was drive wide open down the interstate I'd say he's your man for a carb tweak. But that ain't reality. The key is what you need through the range.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by special-K

The writing on the wall on that carb was "had a Nascar guy build my carb". If all you did was drive wide open down the interstate I'd say he's your man for a carb tweak. But that ain't reality. The key is what you need through the range.

Maybe, but circle track be it the local bull rings or the nascar pro series. don't run wide open all race,, other than 2 tracks.. (super speedways)
but their rpm range is much higher than any thing on the street..

[special-K]

They don't stop or shift much

[davepl]

Originally Posted by special-K

The writing on the wall on that carb was "had a Nascar guy build my carb". If all you did was drive wide open down the interstate I'd say he's your man for a carb tweak. But that ain't reality. The key is what you need through the range.

Probably true for carbs, never thought of that. I had a NASCAR engine builder do my 402 (he retired up here and still putters on projects) but I figure if you can built a motor to live for 500 racing miles, my 402 will live.

But it might not transfer to carbs, as you say, because they're basically wide open all the time!

You know who you really want? That unnamed grey-bearded old tech who worked at the corner Texaco for 40 years. That dude can fix anything. But avoid his brother, he's terrible. Unfortunately they look identical...

[James the III]

If a guy can tune a carb for each track and it's gearing and rpm and shifting..
He can tune a street carb.. but you have to be honest on what it's going on and it's use..
most fib. here and with cams, and converters then wonder why it's ruff, coughing mess..
that is junk till 3000 rpm than it's like you hit a light switch..

[Ironangel]

That aint no sewing machine! Thats a 396 Big Block Chevy motor. You make snide remarks about horsepower and torque and then go buy a Holly? Quit messin around and put a Quadrajet on that Chevy motor! Leave the Camrey's (whatever that is) and the sewing machines to grandma. Dont you have a spreadbore intake? NO other 4bbl carb will get the mileage a Quadrajet can get. And consequently no other carb has 2-1/4" secondaries to make your sewing machine set your hair on fire! Learn your carb, welcome to the performance world...~Ghostrider~

[RPOZ11]

FWIW...
I am running a 7043207 on my basically stock 73 C/20 454, .060 over, low cast iron intake, small valve non ported 049 heads, & Thorley Tri-Y's.
This Quadrajet was a simple recolor & rebuild.
Doing some detailed assembly and THOROUGHLY inspecting everything, done right, it works just fine.
My only issue is that I need to change the needles as it runs just a little bit to rich.
Otherwise, no complaints

[HO455]

As to answer the OP's question. It's all about marketing and selling stuff. The factory did their work to make people like you happy. What are your expectations for fuel mileage? The BBC is notorious for poor fuel mileage.