IFS Install This Weekend - Need Advice

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ok, it FINALLY looks like I'm starting this weekend!!
For those that haven't read my thread, it's a Fatman Fabrications MII. My truck is a '55.2 with 283, early camel hump heads w/o bolt holes on the front and 15" Torq Thrust wheels will be reused.
I know I need Borgeson joints to connect my ididit column to the R&P. I don't know anything about how to pick them, size them, will I need a short shaft(s) to connect the two? Probably. Where to buy?
I will need a column drop but I assume I can't decide on that til the column is installed and I'm seated on the bench...or is there a most-common size? 2"? I'm 5'10" and I tend to like to sit high in vehicles. Stock huge steering wheel for now.
As I'm writing this I can't remember if I have a power Rack but pretty sure I do. So I'll need custom brackets for mounting a power steering pump. Which aftermarket source do you guys recommend for them?
Last, I've got a good certified welder coming over possibly Sunday - if I'm ready that fast. Two of us will be wrenching the tear down and the "dog house" is coming off (fingers crossed) as a unit. engine & tranny being pulled hopefully together and set aside for a Krylon rebuild, hah ha. Do you HONESTLY think getting to the point of welding is possible by Sunday afternoon? I don't want to let this linger, but don't want to rush either.

All experienced opinions truly appreciated. Any more experienced member who might want to drop by, I'll spring for pizza and beer or Cokes - drop me a PM. Best, and may the force be with me! - Dan

[iowaboynca]

I think you also need to take into account the time it will take to get all the measurements for where you want to install the MII x-member in regards to your desired ride height. Just make sure to review Fatman's instructions prior so you know what's expected.

All in all, happy for you on getting ready to knock out a major milestone. Good luck!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Iowaboy!

Me too, I'm excited about undertaking this and I'm trying to pre plan as much as possible because I know me and I can lose momentum. "Paralysis-by-analysis" and "While-I'm-in-there" syndrome runs strong in me.

Yes on re-reviewing the Fatman instructions carefully. I intend to carefully check the centerline of the straight axle to make sure it is "square" to the frame - I think it is because the truck doesn't "dog track" then transfer the centerline to the frame and floor. Then my research here indicates the centerline should move forward between 3/4" to as much as 1-1/2". Hopefully we'll mock up the wheel and doghouse to see if the wheel looks properly centered?

[Coupeguy2001]

Marking and measuring is just a small, simple thing, but it can be inaccurate without doing it twice or three times.
Here's what I did....
I disassembled the sheet metal, left the hood on for fender alignment.
First, use your phone, and take pics of your hood to fender alignment. Then take pics of the inner fender to cab alignment.
Then take pics underneath of the core support bolts, and the rear cab mounts where you can see the bolt heads in the frame.
You will want to replace the rear cab mountcushions because they can be hard and transmit noise throughout the truck.
Then take pics of all the fender points where they attach to the frame, cab, etc.
You never know what you might encounter since when it all goes back together, you just might have to disassemble everything on the fenders to cut out the area where the upper control arms go through.
Then measure, measure, measure. Use 3 separate sheets of paper to write down your dimensions and calculations. If they all come out the same, then go for it. on the frame, make the marks you intend to use with marker, then measure and write it on your paper. have a friend do the same, and if everything works, cut, cut, cut.

Before you do anything, pick the area on your garage floor that you are going to be working in, and use a level taped to a 3-4 foot two by four.
Move the level all over the floor to determine that the floor is level.
There will be an optical illusion of angularity if the truck isn't exactly level. That is the most important first step.
If you weld the front end in, and the truck isn't quite level, your frame might just be tensioned to your uneven floor, and the alignment forever might be slightly compromised.

Mark all of your bolts. Don't go by memory when you put it back together.

Decide ahead of time if you need the bellhousing crossmember. Welding in the front end with the crossmember in place adds stiffness even if you want to take it out and replace the crossmember with one at the back of the trans.
Remember, you are going to cut off the front mounts, and install side mounts.

The steering shaft will have to be determined after you buy your column (I bought a 30 incher) and where your rack will finally end up.
You might just get the engine in and find that your exhaust manifold needs modifying.
When you install the steering column, you will have to raise the column position about 2 inches from stock height. Use a broomstick to decide the actual steering shaft angle that is comfortable for you.
I used a rotary file to hog out the area above the original steering column to give clearance for the new column and made a custom aluminum plate to fill in the extra area under the column.If you are using the mounts on the Fat man kit, You may have the option to move your engine forward or back. I set my engine back in the frame by making new engine side mount adapters that set the engine back about two inches so it was just about an inch forward of the original factory engine position. This gives you the option of using a HEI distributor in the future because it has a larger diameter.

If you buy the serpentine belt setup from a 90-91 firebird/Camaro, it gives quiet operation, plus the water pump options are aluminum incase you want to lighten up the front a little with inexpensive choices to do so. .
It gives a power steering pump mount, water pump, tensioner, A/C mount, and if in the future you put a TPI or other fuel injection mod, it makes the belt go low for intake options.

Then if you mount the radiator in the 6 cyl. position, you have extra room for a fan shroud, or electric fans.
I went to an aluminum radiator and mounted an electric fan to it. The engine stays so much cleaner without a mechanical fan blowing dirt onto your engine every minute that the engine is turning.

I also used a hydroboost unit from a diesel chevy station wagon because I did not want the booster on the firewall to keep being in the way.
The hydroboost is small, light, has an accumulator with an air charge to give you 4 brake applications if the engine dies or the belt breaks, or you run out of fluid. The hydro boost also gives around 400-500 extra pounds of pressure available to really clamp on the binders. I used a brake booster from the wrecking yard out of a 96 Chevy 1 ton dually. My truck stops now!

There are several companies that can sell you pressure regulators for your power steering pump to knock down the pressure to the rack so it isn't so sensitive.

Think of cutting the trans mount and adding a U bracket on either or just the right side to route your exhaust.
Your truck is going to be a lot lower than you first expected, and the pipes have to go somewhere.

Have a plan of action for dropping the rear end when you are done with the front. I bought 3" drop springs for the rear, and added 1 1/2 inch longer shackles that I made to make it low enough in the back.

If you go the hydroboost, you need to put the exhaust on the right side. I did that, and routed the left pipe back to the left side over the rear axle.

When choosing wheels........ you will have to change them...... make a deal with a wrecking yard that you want to rent a few different wheels to see what diameter and width wheels work for you. start with a 16 inch, 8 inch wide wheel, and see if it works on both sides. Not enough? then go 16 inch, 10 inch wide. Then 17 inch or 18 inch.
My wheels are all the same, front and back, and I can rotate tires when I need to. Also, if I need to get a spare for the truck, they are all the same size.
My wheels are 10 inches wide in all four corners. If you use big and littles, your front will be even lower from the small front tires/wheel combo.
Remember, the rear end might have to be changed to accommodate the wheel choices too.
I used 96 Impala SS wheels, and had to use spacers on the front to push them out a little for aesthetics.
Also, when choosing wheels, your probably going to use 5 on 4 3/4.
Make sure the wheels you rent have the same pattern, or you will be going through the boneyard twice if you go that direction.

[OrrieG]

For steering layout go to Borgsens joint site, they have a great tech tutorial on how to configure the shaft. To mock up the steering column make sure you have the seat and wheel you will use. Then its trial and error for your body type. make sure you check that you can clearly see your gauges, I had to lower mine about 1" after install (I had allowed about 1.5" of threads on the U bracket). Length of column will depend on how close you want it to you middle and how much you can have hanging out the fireall side. I uses a 82 Eldo column because it is a shorter lenght with tilt telescope, only about 2" hangs out the fire wall. Others covered the suspension install, just take your time and make sure everything stays plumb and level as you proceed.

[Coupeguy2001]

I also had to rewire the electrical system to include an electrical buss where things can be powered from since the original factory wiring routed everything through the headlight switch and the ammeter. I added fuse panels to add protection for the new circuits.
You will have to rewire your turn signals since the column has a different connector. You need to remember the brake light switch, orange is power, and the white wire goes to the steering column so the turn signal switch can turn on and off the brake light power to the tail lights to insert the flasher power to make the turn signals blink your light bulbs.
Oh, Yeah,
On the brakes, you will have to figure out a master cylinder because your existing one won't power the calipers correctly.
plan ahead, buy or modify your master cylinder. I cut the bottom reservoir off my old master cylinder because it was the brake pedal mount.

See my thread in this forum in "builds" under "my 57 revitalized." it gives a lot of info there. it is around 17 or 18 down the list.

[Dan in Pasadena]

YIKES!
A helluva a lot of information here that I need to read closely and digest and then probably post back with questions. I'm at work now just checking in so I'll have to do this later.

For Coupeguy - can't thank you enough for the detailed info however some of it doesn't apply. I've got early camel hump heads with no bolt holes in front so a serpentine system (I think) will not work and besides they're more expensive than I'd really like to spend. I've gotta see where my existing engine mounts are? I THINK they're already on the side. The truck was originally a six cylinder so the radiator is already in the six motor position and I already have a fan shroud. But you raise a point I hadn't thought of, new motor mounts. I hadn't considered that at all - DOH!

Yes, I definitely had planned on taking pictures but HADN'T thought about taking pix of the various bolt positions. What I HAD thought about was using a permanent marker to mark all the bolt hole locations. NOw, I think I'll number them on their heads AND put the number on the part adjacent, plus keep a few sketches of them. As for the "garage" floor? The job isn't being done IN the garage - the garage floor is all cracked and heaved. The driveway in front is sloped so there WILL be issues with getting the truck level. I'm getting a bunch of thicknesses of plywood to use as shims to level jackstands. I think the FF instructions say something about a 3 or 4 degree slope from level? Toward the rear? I need to re-read to understand why this is so. You guys are making me wonder again if I'm up to this? But I'm going for it. I'll "swim" my way out of it if the water is over my head!

Oh and PS: I have a new CPP master cylinder with dual reservoir and bracket for mounting in the original position on the frame. I do NOT have a booster as my truck is over-cammed (no, a milder cam it is NOT part of the "while-I'm-in-their" plan...yet!) and I don't have enough vacuum to operate one. Going to try to go without power assist and see how much pedal effort is required.

[Advanced Design]

Have fun Dan. With your research and study you are up for it.

[_Ogre]

truk has the fatman mustII in it

steering has one shaft with column coming out of stock hole
most aftermarket columns have DD and must racks have spline



ogre brand ps pump bracket in lower holes



my column un-drop... notice the tip of my speedo bezel is ground off and tight to the dash



i run the column straight only tilt down on long runs



i could post more pics... or you could just read my build thread

[59chev]

I don't know about and IDIDIT Column but a Chevy van column will fit in the stock column drop if you just take out the piece of rubber. I'm pretty sure the Ididit columns are modelled after the 70-81 Van columns.

For power steering brackets, Alan Grove has a good selection that will fit your 283 with the short water pump and early camel hump heads with no holes.

http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/S...Short_Pump.htm

[reinmeister1951]

I did the same job last week, two of us had the hood and front fenders and engine and tranny out in 2 1/2 hours. the first afternoon.
The boxing plates and C-notch were welded in and the cross member and spring perch were tacked by 8 1/2 hrs. My frame is from a 1 ton so the boxing plates took a lot more time because the flanges were quite a bit wider than a 1/2 ton and required 3/4" off each one.

[_Ogre]

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

truk has the fatman mustII in it

steering has one shaft with column coming out of stock hole
most aftermarket columns have DD and must racks have spline

Ok, so this means I'd have to buy a shaft from Borgeson with the DD on one end and the MII splines on the other. I assume once the column location is finalized its as simple as a tape measurement to figure out the length I'll need? No special consideration? Allow some slack for some reason? I'll assume full engagement at both ends is desirable.

Originally Posted by _Ogre

ogre brand ps pump bracket in lower holes

"Lower holes" in what? Heads or block? I'm currently thinking Alan Grove brackets.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

Funny. You know the old saying? One "Oh schit" erases fifty Attaboys!

Ogre,
Doug makes a good point- I'm gonna have to add a C notch on the underside of the frame for the rack & pinion, correct? Another thing I'd forgotten about!

[Ratpin]

Hopefully your engine and exhaust is in the truck before tackling steering. I would not buy anything until you can pilot your steering linkage with engine BOLTED in. Don't be like me and have to redesign all the steering linkage at final assembly.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ok, checking out the Alan Grove website it appears I could use either the 113 & 213 brackets with the alternator and (someday) AC compressor on either side. OR I could order the "64-68 Chevelle" 600L bracket and the 113R bracket. I will have AC in the truck some day so I suppose it makes sense to buy the proper bracket now even if I don't use it immediately.

Opinions on this?

Did you guys all fabricate your own cover plate for around the steering column as it passes through the firewall/floor? I assume you incorporated some kind of clamping mechanism on this cover? Any tips on this?

[tmoble]

Dan, in order to cut the number of operations and parts required to to get the truck back on the road you might consider this: My DD truck has had a Camaro front end since 93 and also a Vette rear since 2012. I'm still running the the stock 57 master cylinder. works OK, but no power booster at all means it's a foot/leg thing, not a toe pressure deal. Works for me till I get one of them thar roundtuit things.

[_Ogre]

I'm gonna have to add a C notch on the underside of the frame for the rack & pinion, correct?

it's in the instructions... you have read them?

for the steering shaft; you buy one DD joint, one DD/spline joint and a 36'' piece of DD shaft: cut to fit
no allowances for slack, steering should be fail safe; built to where it can not fail if a component fails
the way mine is setup all the set screws can be removed and nothing comes apart
i had to unbolt and raise my column to get everything together

"Lower holes" in what? Heads or block?

your looking at the crank pulley, dampener and oil pan flange
yes, the block. the same bolt holes that were used for 55-59 motor mounts
all sbc have the boss, some have the holes, some do not: nothing a drill and tap won't fix

personally i think allen grove has some of the ugliest brackets around
do they work? yes. but universal fit usually doesn't fit my need
i have a $100, allen grove ac compressor bracket that came with my vintage air kit
ugly, ugly, ugly. didn't use it, yours free for shipping


and i'll add my dollars vs sense rant here

allen grove ps pump bracket is $77, ogre brand is $5: keeping the cost down
allen grove ac bracket is $100, ogre brand is $15 mostly for the tensioner; keeping the cost down

spend your money where you want $10 here and $99 here adds up fast

you can spend $1000 for an ididit steering column in black, tilt, column shift with key
plus you can add extra $300 for the column drop, floor mount, nss, steering wheel adapter, horn button and steering wheel
or $35 for the same column with same features from GM out of a junkyard with steering wheel, key and horn button
and since it wasn't chromed, i welded the floor flange/adapter to the column

the more you fabricate the better you get at fabricating and the more you save
keeping the cost down

[OrrieG]

What Ogre said, usually home made is more elegant in engineering terms. Manf. are over engineered and over built to limit liability.

"In engineering, a solution may be considered elegant if it uses a non-obvious method to produce a solution which is highly effective and simple. An elegant solution may solve multiple problems at once, especially problems not thought to be inter-related."

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

it's in the instructions... you have read them?

Yes, of course....but also of course I can't find my copy right now....GRRRRR

Searched online last night and could only find the Fatman tutorial that applies generically to '40 Fords, with lousy dark photos not one for '55-59 Chevy trucks. Anyone have a link to the right instructions?

PS to Ogre and Orrie: I'm certain you're right that self fabricated brackets would be cheaper AND more "elegant". My issue is I'm not that much of a fabricator to begin with AND though I don't have a big budget I have more money than I have time. I have mentioned it in my build thread numerous times that my garage/driveway layout is not conducive to having a derelict in the driveway blocking it for long. So getting this done soon is my priority AS WELL AS getting it done "right"

[Coupeguy2001]

Glad to see you are thinking. That is half the battle.
I was like you, when I started the project, I was going to use as much of my old set-up as possible.
But I found out that what you are doing affects every other sub portion of your truck.
Shocks- brakes-driveshaft-rear axle-rear end ride height-exhaust-steering wheel and shaft-fuel lines-brake lines-and the greatest change, how you drive your truck from now on.
Here's some thoughts on your comments and some "oh by the ways"
A hydroboost will run off of your power steering pressure, and doesn't matter what cam u have.
You can use the most radial cam you can find, and you still have power brakes.
I bought the hydro boost and master (I bolted them together before I got to the check-out line at pick-a-part) for $75.
I made my own bracket and hydraulic lines, and a custom flex line to the steering box was $35.
The steel line I bought was $30 for a 25 foot roll of 3/8" at NAPA. (you have to be patient, and un-roll the line to make it straight again, but it gets the curve out if you go slow)
About your master cylinder.....
The size of the bore determines the brake pressure to the wheels.
For instance, a smaller bore will transmit higher wheel pressure, but not move a lot of fluid.
The larger diameter bore will transmit less pressure, but flow larger amounts of fluid when you are using disc/caliper combo i.e. front disc and rear shoe. Both systems have different pressure and volume requirements.
Be sure to check in the master cylinder for a plastic check valve.
Most factory drum/disc master cylinders have a 10 PSI check valve in the rear brake portion of the reservoir. if they don't, check the brass valve that looks like an add-on that comes with a CPP kit, or add your own check valves. It's 10 PSI for shoes, and 2 PSI for disc.
This automatically keeps the rear shoes and front calipers from retracting when the shoes wear, and need adjustment to limit brake pedal travel, since there is just so much stroke available for any given pedal set-up.
Since you are going to use the original factory pedal, or one with the same dimensions, you can't change the pedal ratio.
That means that in order to adjust how much pressure goes to the brakes, you change the master cylinder to one with a smaller bore, and hope the fluid flow is adequate for both types of brakes.
The way to get around the fluid flow thing is to keep your rear brakes adjusted up all the time, or install self adjusters like the factory did.
Ok,
The rear to front slope is probably the amount of built in caster with the setup that you bought. follow the instructions to the letter, and buy a protractor like they use to set up the drive lines.
You might also need it to adjust your engine angle so your u joints aren't at too high of an angle. Lowering the rear will help this angle as well.
You can adjust engine/trans angle with home made shims at the rear trans mount.
If you have the A arms with the kit, the uppers will have an additional few degrees of caster built in over the original ford geometry.
You can also get the alignment guy to add a degree of caster if the thing wanders a lot.
Engine placement isn't critical, but it affects your ride height, and how your truck will launch off the line.
With my engine forward of the original position, but 2 inches back of the subframe designed location, my truck raises up about 3 inches on a maximum take off, and really plants the rear tires with the aid of the traction bars.
I bought No-Limit traction bars, and modified the front mount location so the bars are parallel to the ground.
The ones No-Limit sells allows you to adjust the preload on your rear end to eliminate wheel hop, and minimizes clutch chatter if you have any.
I used a polyurethane left engine mount since I kept breaking the left mount all the time...
It transmits a little more vibration to the frame, but not as much as having the other two mounts out of polyurethane as well.
As far as the camel humps go, if they aren't ported, a set of other cast iron heads with larger combustion chambers will allow you to use regular gas, advance the timing even more for gas mileage, and give you bolt holes.
Usually you can get a set out of pick-a-part for around a hundred.
Auto zone and O'reilly's sell prefabbed brake and fuel lines. I made a diagram of what I needed, got prefabbed lines and just bent the new lines with a tubing bender.
At O'reilly's, they let me stand for about an hour at their paper catalog and hunt for the brake hoses I needed for the front.
they also let me stand there for about an hour behind the counter and pick through their brass fittings to make my Tees and elbow setups for those brake lines and hydraulic lines.
Check out my build on this forum in projects and builds. it's about 18 or 19 down the list.

[1958Warrior]

3/8" brake line is pretty large , Coupeguy probably meant 3/16" , That is what I'm using front and back (disc/ drum) just need to use an adjustable proportioning valve on the back

Speedway has good tech pages for reference
https://static.speedwaymotors.com/im...BuilderTip.jpg

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tech#gotobrakes

You can do it , once you get your hands dirty and get in there you'll be fabricating stuff in no time, a grinder with a cutoff wheel , a drill and a welder and a tape and a level, your on your way.

[1958Warrior]

You'll be fine out in the driveway, that's where I did mine, level front to back and side to side, under the cab , bottom of the frame is ok with the cab on it.

I would make a trip to the hardware store and get some metal for use as shims as the wood will compress. they sell some strips like 2" by 3 ft by 1/16 " thick that can be cut up for shims, an old leaf spring works well for a thicker shim, a flattened soup can for thinner ect.

I also used some 6 ton jack stands to get the frame high enough to be more comfortable .

[OrrieG]

coupeguy good points. I would add that I used Russell braided lines. I called their help line and the guy on the other end was very knowlegable and experienced, obviously had answered questions about the same conversion I was doing before. He gave me some questions to answer, I looked at what I had, and 10 minutes later had the right lines with correct length and fittings on the way. Speedbleeders made the install even easier. To make life easier I used a stock 74 truck MC to match the rear and front brakes on mine, no guessing on bore size, volumes etc. Make sure you have your truck supported safely, as a kid I had a concrete block fail and almost got crushed under a 60 Impala installing a new rear axle....luckily I was still skinny and the axle got wedged enough against the frame to give me breathing room. Buddy had to go hunt up a High Lift jack to get me out. Had totally forgotten about that until I read warriors post.

[solidaxel]

You might check with Bill's Hot Rod shop in Corona or look up Bills Brackets for short water pump and no holes in the heads
I use his brackets on all of my SBC work great and are tight to the center for clearance if needed