How to create older restoration quickly

[lupo]

I'm fairly new here and I've been restoring cars for 40 years. I worked in the paint industry for the 32 years. Some people may disagree with me but that's okay I expect it. I find it interesting that people will cut costs only to cost them more down the road. For instance. Let's take rust removal and prep. I read threads using vinegar, molasses,muriatic acid electrolysis and that will remove rust. The problem with that is it doesn't prevent the rust from returning. These homemade solutions do not contain zinc and that's what prevents the metal from re-rusting.Every auto manufacturer dips the bodies of the cars in a phosphate solution, not molasses. If they don't phosphatides it anywhere that there is rust left in that steel it will show up a bit later and warranty problems will arise

In an older vehicle the rust is usually the heaviest on the floor pans, bottoms of the doors, bottom of the fenders the quarters. Good rust work starts from the inside out. So the next step is go to a hardware store and buy an inexpensive alkyd paint that the can says stops rust. But for how long that's the problem As far as spray cans, outside of weld through primer don't really use them.

That's my thoughts for today if you want to continue the conversation fine if not that's okay too

[lupo]

Okay nevermind

[wixthedog]

It's interesting to read about but well above my experience in body work to ask any follow up questions.

I work rotations, 4 weeks on and then 4 weeks off. I've been thinking about approaching a local body shop and offering myself as free labor for a couple weeks so that I can learn more and in the future do more at my shop at home. I am just not sure how a body shop owner will respond.

[lupo]

I would think he'd welcome you with open arms. Body shops are having a hell of a time finding help. At the moment unemployment pays as good or better than going to work. The fact that you want to learn and are willing to work I would think would be great for the owner. He would probably offer you a job. In the 40 years that I've restored cars I've never let a body shop paint any of my cars. Restoration and preservation work is different than production work. By all means learn the basics of the shop and then will go on to creating paintwork that will last for decades not just years

[TrailerTrash]

Interesting topic but could we get it moved to General Discussion?

[lupo]

That's beyond my computer skills. Possibly a moderator could move it to the proper area

[cadillac_al]

Where do you get zinc to apply to the metal?

[lupo]

Rust remover and metal prep contain zinc. Mastercoat and Capt. Lee's I knew for sure contains zinc.

[LT7A]

It seems that you have some good knowledge and experience to share. Your original post discusses specific materials and products. A broader, more generalized description of the process, the desired outcome, and what you recommend would help. I think you would get more responses. For instance, I'm not clear if you are recommending alkyd paint? And if that's the treatment you recommend inside of doors? The second to last sentence of your original posting seems very purposeful, but it's very hard to follow. I think that a little more explanation would add a lot more clarity. If your interest is in helping out and improving our knowledge and projects, I think there are many of us who would appreciate it.

[lupo]

Originally Posted by LT7A

It seems that you have some good knowledge and experience to share. Your original post discusses specific materials and products. A broader, more generalized description of the process, the desired outcome, and what you recommend would help. I think you would get more responses. For instance, I'm not clear if you are recommending alkyd paint? And if that's the treatment you recommend inside of doors? The second to last sentence of your original posting seems very purposeful, but it's very hard to follow. I think that a little more explanation would add a lot more clarity. If your interest is in helping out and improving our knowledge and projects, I think there are many of us who would appreciate it.

My purpose is to try to educate younger people because a lot of things I read on the Internet is misinformation. When I started to do bodywork did not use body filler. It was a pick hammer and a file. We welded patch panels in with clothes hangers and acetylene torches..

Alkyd paint is the most inexpensive coating that industrial coatings company sell ,generally as a maintenance paint. you'll find mostly hardware stores for Joe the homeowner not bad stuff it doesn't last too long. In 1978 I accidentally used a zinc rich Vinyl primer on an old LaSalle that was inside out. That car is for sale today and the owner thinks that is the original paint. I have been using industrial primers ever since.

The best way to treat seams is give them a good soaking with a rust remover metal prep solution that contains zinc or a rust conversion coating. Soak it for a couple of days after it dries up then seal it up

[wixthedog]

Originally Posted by lupo

I would think he'd welcome you with open arms. Body shops are having a hell of a time finding help. At the moment unemployment pays as good or better than going to work. The fact that you want to learn and are willing to work I would think would be great for the owner. He would probably offer you a job. In the 40 years that I've restored cars I've never let a body shop paint any of my cars. Restoration and preservation work is different than production work. By all means learn the basics of the shop and then will go on to creating paintwork that will last for decades not just years

Never too old to learn something, and I hope you are right and they take me up on the offer. I'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore (40) and I already have a great job but I love to learn stuff and make myself better. I also don't mind sweeping up the place if that's what it takes!

[lupo]

Bodywork is like welding. Practice repetition. It's tedious work and you cant rush it. I see we've been moved to general discussion, the place for chit chat jokes.

I have a joke black paint over rust products are clear concrete primer with black pigment added to it. I just saw guy paint his trunk pan and I wanted asked him if that pan was concrete or stamped steel.Now that's really funny.

[dajn]

I have enough projects to last me a life time already. It's sad how everything breaks down and wears out. Including ourselves. I wish I could do body work. I have multiple vehicles that need it bad and I definitely cant afford to hire it all out yet anyway. Oh well. A guy has to be realistic about these things. I cant get to all of them. But I do hope to get my 87 r10 and my dads 66 7 litre done. I think i can pull that off. I do plan on hiring people for those two. Get it done right.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by lupo

Bodywork is like welding. Practice repetition. It's tedious work and you cant rush it. I see we've been moved to general discussion, the place for chit chat jokes.

I have a joke black paint over rust products are clear concrete primer with black pigment added to it. I just saw guy paint his trunk pan and I wanted asked him if that pan was concrete or stamped steel.Now that's really funny.

No, actually it's the place for general discussion. I am just now seeing your thread here. I don't know where you originally posted this. Was it in a year specific forum? We have a paint & body forum and this would fit perfect there. General discussion is for all topics not specific to any of our many specific forums.

As far as what you have posted goes. I am always ready to learn from the ones who know. Been doing it all my life. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you certainly have yours. I have been a novice body man for 50 years, so I am no expert. I don't want to ruffle your feathers, but you are reminding me of the AMA turning their noses up at good old home and homeopathic remedies. There will always be more than one school of thought, at least. In your rhelm alone I am sure there are many. I'm curious to see if there will be responses from those who have used these unorthodox methods and how that work is holding up.

[lupo]

I posted it a older truck section because I thought it would be most helpful for older vehicles. I have nothing against people doing it their way. And I am sorry if it seems that I was looking down my nose at anybody's work. I had hoped that my 32 years in the industrial coatings business I could present some facts. Like you say everybody has their own way of doing things.

My 55 Chevy has a the base primer of permanent rust sealer that is a bridge primer. It has and automotive primer over it and color. The clearcoat is what's used on the bottom of jet aircraft for stone chipping.

[special-K]

I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted either. I treat my rusted metal to convert the iron oxide into iron phosphate and have pushed the Master Series as being superior to the name brand POR-15 for many years. Long time ago I was fortunate enough to meet the owner of Master Series, who once was the lead chemist for POR-15. He left and started Master Series when POR-15 cheapened their (his) formula. Probably no one has laid the whole concept out the way you have here, the principals involved in truly arresting rust until now. But the info has been here on Master Series for quite some time. So I hope people have been finding that info and carrying through with success.

Do you visit the Paint & Body forum? With the knowledge you have gathered over the years you could be a great benefit to members there.

[lupo]

I have posted in the bodywork section but very little views..If I do offer advice it's usually challenged.Mastercoat doesn't advertise so most people are unfamiliar with that brand.

[DeadheadNM]

I think it’s going to depend upon the part. Here’s a before after using Evaporust to remove the surface rust on the parking brake assembly that was largely bare metal from GM save for the partially painted arm. I chased that with a coating of Boeshield. To me it’s good to go for another several decades.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

I think it’s going to depend upon the part. Here’s a before after using Evaporust to remove the surface rust on the parking brake assembly that was largely bare metal from GM save for the partially painted arm. I chased that with a coating of Boeshield. To me it’s good to go for another several decades.

I'm afraid that if I use Evaporust, I might not have a pickup left

[DeadheadNM]

Lol!

[special-K]

My dad had a '62 Land Rover 109 from '69 till around '00. The door pillars are steel but the body skin is aluminum. The door pillars (B) had 'turned' and were pure surface rust through the paint by sometime around '73-'75. I scuffed it all down by hand using super coarse sandpaper until it was shiny metal. I wiped it down with thinner and sprayed Derusto red oxide primer on there. Remember Derusto? They were right there with Rustoleum back then but I guess they lost the big dog contest. Anyway, that's my story of a post high school kid with practical skills and no education in chemistry or much of any science, or body work, dealt with a rusty spot on his dad's Land Rover that never showed any more rust with only primer on it that held up outdoors for 25 years. I couldn't argue with anyone on it because I couldn't tell you why it worked or anything about the principals involved. Might be dumb luck. It's best to know the best methods and execute then, but there is always dumb luck as well as alternate solutions that may just work as well. It's not molasses that dissolves rust, it's the acid in it. But the consistency of molasses would make it stick and stay to do the work that takes constant contact for a length of time. I guess you can kill rust with alternate forms of acid, but you have not treated the cause of the oxidation

[Getter-Done]

Originally Posted by lupo

I'm fairly new here and I've been restoring cars for 40 years. I worked in the paint industry for the 32 years. Some people may disagree with me but that's okay I expect it. I find it interesting that people will cut costs only to cost them more down the road. For instance. Let's take rust removal and prep. I read threads using vinegar, molasses,muriatic acid electrolysis and that will remove rust. The problem with that is it doesn't prevent the rust from returning. These homemade solutions do not contain zinc and that's what prevents the metal from re-rusting.Every auto manufacturer dips the bodies of the cars in a phosphate solution, not molasses. If they don't phosphatides it anywhere that there is rust left in that steel it will show up a bit later and warranty problems will arise

In an older vehicle the rust is usually the heaviest on the floor pans, bottoms of the doors, bottom of the fenders the quarters. Good rust work starts from the inside out. So the next step is go to a hardware store and buy an inexpensive alkyd paint that the can says stops rust. But for how long that's the problem As far as spray cans, outside of weld through primer don't really use them.

That's my thoughts for today if you want to continue the conversation fine if not that's okay too

Just seen this thread.
Good topic.
I worked at an Auto manufacturing place.

One of the zones I worked in, the car passed thru what they called E coat.
The car was fresh Sheetmetal at this stage (right out of body shop)
The car was submerged in Phosphate then run thru an oven for it to cure.

I have often wondered if there was any product available like that.














.

[72c20customcamper]

I worked in the automobile body work area in the late 70s and early 80s . I can tell you the products out today are far superior to the crap then. I still do lead work but everything else is leaps and bounds better today.

[CG]

I feel like there was a fairly recent thread on having this kind of coating done ... Maybe by the places you have your sheet metal dipped?

Thought I bookmarked it but cant find ... Ill keep looking

[DeadheadNM]

Here’s some info from a restoration shop very close to me on chemical stripping and e coating: https://www.musclecarrestorations.com/ecoat.html