55.2-59 Power Steering and AC lines

[FAKKY]

Rack and Pinion LS engine to hydroboost



So have a clearance issue in reusing the donor truck lines for PS high pressure.

But will also need to get lines for rack and pinion as well AC.

Whats the cheapest/best route to go here ?

[e015475]

Well, I'm not sure if it is cheapest or best, but here's what I did

I converted all the fittings on the hydroboost, the rack and the pump to 3/8" AN/JIC. I did this because if I ever have a hose fail, I can get another one at at an industrial hose store.

I took an old piece of hose and routed it to all the ports to get an idea of how much hose - both high and low pressure- that I was going to need. I had them cut each hose a few inches longer than I needed it.

I bought all the fittings I needed and the hose at my local industrial hydraulic hose and took them home and dry-fitted the system. I marked each hose with tape where I wanted it cut after I'd fitted it to the truck. I threw the marked hoses and fittings in a box and took them to the hydraulic hose store to be crimped.

I had a couple of hoses where I would need a hose fitting that was more that 90 degrees, so I made up these adapters. Hose fittings more than 90 degrees are hideously expensive and hard to find.

All the hoses, fittings and the crimps for the hydroboost and power steering were about $100

If you decide to go this way, here's a few tips-

- Buy all your fittings in steel and they're just a fraction of the price of the fancy Earls or Russell anodized aluminum fittings

- Use JIC fittings instead of AN fittings. JIC is interchangable with AN and a lot cheaper.

- Use the correct spec hose for low and high pressure hose. The higher the pressure capability of the hose, the less bend radius it has and the harder it is to work with. Tell the guy at the hydraulic store your pressures/fluid and he'll sell you the right hose.

- Make your hoses so they have one end with a straight fitting. Avoid hoses that have to have the fittings 'clocked' correctly to fit.

- Prices at hydraulic hose shops vary widely. Fittings that cost me $10 at the local shop that all the farmers and industrial equipment guys use will cost me $80 at the 'Parker Store'

- Your hydroboost doesn't care if it is rotated 180 degrees. It will run fine upside down if that will help any with your plumbing. Mine is down on the frame rail and turning it upside down helped with hose routing. Here's a photo- the hydroboost is where the two 90 degree fittings are

[FAKKY]

Thats some good tips/info e015475

How did you make those adapters ?
One of the biggest issues is I need to turn almost 90 degrees immediately. The typical 90 degree AN/JIC fitting I think will be too long .... almost need something tighter like ....

https://www.hydraulichoses.com/Produ...xoCEggQAvD_BwE

No idea who does hydraulic/steering/ac line crimping around here ..........
Any idea if this tool can do all 3 ?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/71500-A-C-H...-/202434616447

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by FAKKY

No idea who does hydraulic/steering/ac line crimping around here ..........

http://www.goodyearparkerstore.com/clearwater/

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by joedoh

http://www.goodyearparkerstore.com/clearwater/

Thanks joe.... I'll check that out - I had heard that parker was very expensive.

I did find this. Worked out to be around $40 per line ...... but some of the fittings I have never heard of before .....

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/

[e015475]

"How did you make those adapters ?"

They are made out of scraps of 304 stainless tube and JIC parts from a local hydraulic repair shop. The tubes were flared with a 37 degree flaring tool and the radius was put in with an inexpensive tube bender

Fittings that have swivels and/or bends are expensive. I avoid them as much as possible, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

"No idea who does hydraulic/steering/ac line crimping around here ..........
Any idea if this tool can do all 3"

Google is your friend. Search 'Tampa hydraulic hose' and you will find a dozen close by.
You don't want an automotive place, you want a hydraulic hose place (that is what I do anyway)

There's a little bit of technique to getting a crimp on a hose. The hydraulic shop does hundreds of hoses a week and I'd just as soon let them do it for a couple of bucks. They have all the correct dies for the fittings they sell and a hydraulic crimping machine with a 5HP motor.

I'm not saying the crimper you show wouldn't work and i'll be the first to rationalize the purchase of a new tool, but for a couple extra bucks, I'll let the shop do it.

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/

These guys are great. When I start a project I'll often make a spreadsheet of all the fittings I'll need and order everything I think I'll need. But usually it takes a couple of orders to get everything. IIRC they have a lot of adapter fittings too. Very handy.

I've tried to make sense out of buying assembled hoses from them, but the only way I could make sure it is right would be for them to ship me the components, I'd mark the hoses for the length I need and ship to them, and then they'd crimp them and send it back. All that freight and crimping charges are hard to justify when my local shop will do it for $6/hose while I wait.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by FAKKY

I had heard that parker was very expensive.

haha hey you just asked where.


I have used parker (called hyspeco here) a few times over the years and havent found their prices to be crazy. I added some accumulators to a nissan with hydraulic suspension and they looked up, listed the parts needed, built them and even assembled what could be assembled off the truck. most recently I had them build a new propane line for my forklift, it wasnt even memorable for down time or cost.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by joedoh

haha hey you just asked where.


I have used parker (called hyspeco here) a few times over the years and havent found their prices to be crazy. I added some accumulators to a nissan with hydraulic suspension and they looked up, listed the parts needed, built them and even assembled what could be assembled off the truck. most recently I had them build a new propane line for my forklift, it wasnt even memorable for down time or cost.

Called them ...... and honestly it wasnt too bad.

$3.50 to crimp per end for AC

And around $40-$80 for each full line depending on length/etc for Power Steering.

Did find this too ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Steer...3cb5%7Ciid%3A1


But might be better just to get custom made if I can get for less than $60

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by e015475

"How did you make those adapters ?"

They are made out of scraps of 304 stainless tube and JIC parts from a local hydraulic repair shop. The tubes were flared with a 37 degree flaring tool and the radius was put in with an inexpensive tube bender

Fittings that have swivels and/or bends are expensive. I avoid them as much as possible, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

"No idea who does hydraulic/steering/ac line crimping around here ..........
Any idea if this tool can do all 3"

Google is your friend. Search 'Tampa hydraulic hose' and you will find a dozen close by.
You don't want an automotive place, you want a hydraulic hose place (that is what I do anyway)

There's a little bit of technique to getting a crimp on a hose. The hydraulic shop does hundreds of hoses a week and I'd just as soon let them do it for a couple of bucks. They have all the correct dies for the fittings they sell and a hydraulic crimping machine with a 5HP motor.

I'm not saying the crimper you show wouldn't work and i'll be the first to rationalize the purchase of a new tool, but for a couple extra bucks, I'll let the shop do it.

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/

These guys are great. When I start a project I'll often make a spreadsheet of all the fittings I'll need and order everything I think I'll need. But usually it takes a couple of orders to get everything. IIRC they have a lot of adapter fittings too. Very handy.

I've tried to make sense out of buying assembled hoses from them, but the only way I could make sure it is right would be for them to ship me the components, I'd mark the hoses for the length I need and ship to them, and then they'd crimp them and send it back. All that freight and crimping charges are hard to justify when my local shop will do it for $6/hose while I wait.

thanks ..... I'll go the buy it route if the prices arent too crazy. Im just a tool guy meaning sometimes if I can buy the tool to pay for the job - I like to go that route

[_Ogre]

i did the napa route. the adapters couldn't be sourced locally
ended up getting them at a hotrod shop

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i did the napa route. the adapters couldn't be sourced locally
ended up getting them at a hotrod shop

Whats the napa route ?

[FAKKY]

So went down last night to autoparts store and looked over around 30-50 PS lines on their shelves to see if I could make one fit. I found one - but would require a lot of bending and end up looking a little ..... meh.

e015475 - I looked up the JIC route as that seemed to be the most common option on getting crimped fittings..... but it leaves you with needing an adapter at all ends ...
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Steerin.../dp/B00VMSPUBI
Sort of expensive ?

Then I looked at AN fittings - but was told by the AN supplier I bought my fuel gear to try and go crimped not compressed fittings. They have adapaters a little cheaper ...

https://tinyurl.com/y657ubuw but then you need to buy special crimp AN fittings that arent that cheap.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/610483/10002/-1


Feel like Im missing something since most brand new OEM PS lines run $20-$30 total.

[dsraven]

look up a hydraulic hose shop, they can fab up a nice hose with the right fittings at both ends and no adapters. take your end parts to them and see if they have the right stuff in stock. really, they do all sorts of weird stuff so they shouldn't be surprised if you walk in with some end parts and some length dimensions. even better if you could load the truck up and take the whole thing to them so you get the right fit and the ends crimped on at the perfect angles. some pretty amazing innovators at some of these shops, thinking of the best route to go and the best parts to use without getting another job to pay for it all.

[e015475]

dsraven is right - they'll put any fitting you want at the end of a hydraulic hose. My favorite shop here will even silver-solder oddball fittings onto a hose assembly.

"even better if you could load the truck up and take the whole thing to them so you get the right fit and the ends crimped on at the perfect angles" This ideal, but never going to happen on my projects - not that organized

I figured if anything goes wrong, it is likely the hose so I standardized all my hydraulic and fuel hoses to -6AN with, on-board air system for the airbags at -4AN and brakes with -3AN. My truck is such a mish-mash of SAE, metric,NPT, inverted flare and ORB that it was the only way for me to make sense out of it.

I always start with Discounthydraulic looking for adapters I need, then Summit or Jegs and finally, if I have to, the Parker Store. Swagelok has some very high quality adapters that I'm comfortable using on metal fuel line.

"was told by the AN supplier I bought my fuel gear to try and go crimped not compressed fittings" That's good advice. AN hose with compressed fittings is a PITA to do yourself and is expensive- a $25 hydraulic hose with crimped JIC fittings will cost $100 with AN fittings.

[FAKKY]

Thanks guys.

Ill try and get down to hydraulic store tomorrow. See whats what.

[FAKKY]

Damn they saw me coming.
$150 for a custom hose rework ... with silver solder.

Now I see why I(we) want to go with JIC.

[dsraven]

thats waaaay too much. look for another hose shop.

[FAKKY]

The other one (goodyearparkerstore.com/clearwater ) where real nice - but couldnt do anything with steel hydraulic PS line. Basically they can supply and fix hose - and crimp fittings.

Think Im going to go e015475 route with JIC.

[e015475]

This is what I used to get my Hydroboost plumbed for JIC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Mopar-hy...-/231943414367

I have used a lot of Sweet hydraulic stuff over the years and found them to be top shelf

With hydroboost you will now have two returns to the PS reservoir - one from the rack and another from the hydroboost. You'll need to combine those two returns with a -6 JIC tee in your return plumbing or remote a reservoir with two return ports. Apologies if you already knew this

The pump on the LS motors is a Saginaw Type TC and you can get JIC adapters from Jegs or Summit. Note that if you change the pump to plumb in a remote reservoir to accommodate the return from the rack and the hydroboost, the PS pump for car LS engines has a different shaft size than a truck pump and it can be a PITA to get a pulley that will work with your accessory drive.

Don't know what you are using for a steering rack, but if it is GM it is likely a 'Saginaw' fitting with an oring. A quick Google search for adapters for the year and original application for your rack should let you get them to JIC. Buy steel ones, not aluminum

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by e015475

This is what I used to get my Hydroboost plumbed for JIC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Mopar-hy...-/231943414367

I have used a lot of Sweet hydraulic stuff over the years and found them to be top shelf

With hydroboost you will now have two returns to the PS reservoir - one from the rack and another from the hydroboost. You'll need to combine those two returns with a -6 JIC tee in your return plumbing or remote a reservoir with two return ports. Apologies if you already knew this

The pump on the LS motors is a Saginaw Type TC and you can get JIC adapters from Jegs or Summit. Note that if you change the pump to plumb in a remote reservoir to accommodate the return from the rack and the hydroboost, the PS pump for car LS engines has a different shaft size than a truck pump and it can be a PITA to get a pulley that will work with your accessory drive.

Don't know what you are using for a steering rack, but if it is GM it is likely a 'Saginaw' fitting with an oring. A quick Google search for adapters for the year and original application for your rack should let you get them to JIC. Buy steel ones, not aluminum

Thanks e015475

Yeah knew about the TEE -- but hadn't thought through yet how I am going to run it. I think the fittings for the RACK (dakota) and the pump (LQ4) and the hydroboost (Chevy astrovan) are all those 18mm-1.5 and 16mm-1.5 fittings.

So think your idea is the best- JIC adapters. Im not 100% if AN will fit JIC - seems like it will as both 37degree flare ..... something about the threads though ...

https://www.air-way.com/news/whats-t...air-way-fit-in

"The most notable difference between these standards are in the threads. AN fittings use an increased root radius thread ("J" thread) and a tighter tolerance (Class 3) to achieve a 40% increase in fatigue strength and 10% increase in shear strength. Material requirements also differ greatly. These two fittings function the same, they look the same, AND the industrial version is much less expensive to manufacturer."

I was told that most auto AN fittings aren't true AN fittings. Really JIC.

[FAKKY]

e015475

I assume on the fitting size for discounthydraulics - just use the 3/8 for the -6AN fitting.

Basically using this for example
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...H4ZYWXFQV072YM

Go with minimum 3/8 ID due to https://www.krcpower.com/files/KRC_Hose_Tech.pdf

1) 3/8" ID R16 hose https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/R16-06-ASB.html

2) Fitting size - 3/8" JIC ?

thx

[57tailgater]

Back when I was working in the hydraulic fitting and hose arena there was hose specifically designed for power steering applications. The 100R2 that is show above is pretty high pressure 2 wire hydraulic hose. The hose designed for power steering would be for lesser pressure plus it has some give in it so when you got to full lock on the steering the pressure has somewhat of an accumulator effect to accommodate the pressure spike.

I also agree that "AN" fittings has become a generic term for 37 degree JIC fittings. From what I have experience and have seen, AN came from actual Army/Navy detail drawings. They mostly had Class 3A threads which were held to a much tighter tolerance than 2A threads that are common in regular and more common hydraulic fittings.

I would find out what max pressure and max temperature the system is run at, then get hose designed for the application and compatible for the fluid. I really don't see the need to try to get true AN (to my definition w/3A threads etc.) but get off the shelf JIC 37 degree fittings which should be sufficient for your application.

[e015475]

From the interwebs -

"JIC fittings are dimensionally identical to AN (Army-Navy) fittings, but are produced to less exacting tolerances and are generally less costly."

My experience with true AN fittings is that most are made out of aluminum and intended for aircraft use. For safety, the thread form (or class of fit) is controlled to tighter tolerances on AN, mostly at the thread root radius to reduce stress risers in the part when it is tightened.

For a hot rod, there's no practical difference between AN and JIC except the price. A steel JIC fitting with a poorer thread class is still stronger it's aluminum AN equivalent.

Where you can get into trouble is buying AN aluminum fittings for automotive use that are advertised as AN, but in reality are JIC. The root radius and thread are not tightly controlled and stress risers can cause them to break in severe applications, and I'd call an automotive power steering system operating at 900-1000 psi 'severe'.

If you absolutely love blue anodized fittings, buy the 'real' ones from Aircraft Spruce.

For either JIC or AN, sizes are usually expressed as 'dash numbers' because that's the way they were identified in a MIL spec back before WW2. For instance, a AN tube nut in 3/8" size would be a 'AN818-6' , or in common parlance, just a 'dash 6 tube nut'.

All 'dash numbers' for JIC or AN fittings are just increments of 1/16th of an inch. So a -6 fitting is for a 3/8" tube (measured on the OD of the tube)

I plumbed all my hydraulic lines for the hydroboost in -6 JIC, which is 3/8", except for the reservoir to the Saginaw TC pump, which is a -12 or 3/4"

[FAKKY]

Thanks guys