47-55.1 Does anybody use small block chevy's anymore?

[Atommik]

1968 327 in my '51. Headers and a Edelbrock 600 carb. Simple quick and dependable. I maybe put on 1000 miles a summer. 12-15 mpg versus 20 mpg...not a big deal. 275-300 HP in my truck is good for me. $400 for the engine and a TH350 6 years ago fits my budget! I am a body man and did everything on my truck myself. I've probably got $6000 into it including the purchase price. For me, that was the way to go!

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Mains52

I have a 5.3 out of an 02 tahoe for my build but have been really contemplating putting it on the back burner and going with a classic 383 and getting this thing on the road faster.

what about a 383 would get it on the road faster? they both require the same things: ignition and starter wiring, belt driven accessories, fuel lines, radiator and hoses, etc.

I could see it being cheaper, but unless you are working on it every minute of every day I doubt it would be "faster". it might be cheaper or not depending on the completeness of your engine you start with. the 5.3 likely has the right intake, the right accessories, the right engine harness and a body harness you can watch any number of youtube videos on how to put it together as a 3 wire setup. I know guys that spend more on a carb and intake for their sbc than the donor LM LQ LS motor (usually real "LS" motors are expensive though)

I have read the easier to work on, more reliable comments in this thread and they have given me a pretty good chuckle. the most reliable sbc I ever had was in a 99 classic suburban, a vortec 5.7 with CPFI and electronic ignition. the least reliable SBC I ever had was a 350 with an edelbrock carb. the 99 had 117k miles when I bought it, the carbed 350 had 250 miles. it always seemed like it had too much carb, even though it idled well and turned in a respectable 8mpg combined (the 99 CPFI got 13 in town and almost 19 highway by the way, with almost 1000 more pounds to drag around)

on the LS side my 6 liter 2500HD must have the check engine light burnt out because I havent seen it in the 27k miles (it has 180k on it, still stock) I have driven. I thought the engine blew last sunday, cruising at 75mph on a 600 mile last-minute round trip, and had a tremendous BANG from the front of the truck, it turned out I hit a deer though.

some guys dont like wiring. and thats fair, you dont have to. I grew up around wiring, I see the inherent benefit to a load/temp based fuel curve. you can tune a carb but its really a parametric (think of a tent profile, where the tent pole is the tuned parameter and the slopes away are the other parameters), if you tune towards power you wont have much economy (like my carbed 350) if you tune towards economy you wouldnt make that same peak power. EFI gives you both, modern EFI and computer controlled ignition can even make a big cam idle and purr a big cube engine around a parking lot without all the gas pedal stabs you are doing to keep it running.

but virtue signalling that the sbc is easier or better or more traditional, well you should go to the hamb and wave your tiny little balled up fists at things like those guys do. what you are missing, and they over there are missing too, is that traditional hotrodding is NOT about using a flathead or a sbc or any thing else that was used in the specific period they love. traditional hotrodding was always about using what is COMMONLY available to make your hot rod go faster, perform better etc. so a junkyard full of cheap 3-400hp drop in 3 wire engines that have to be fuel injected (or dont! lots of carb setups, but see my parametric comments) and need a computer for the ignition, well, you just have to learn up on them.

just a pointed counterpoint.

[vintovka]

I used one in mine. Its ok but i think a good, used , LS would have been a better choice.

[dsraven]

personally, I am in the LS crowd. you just can't put down an engine that you can simply reach in through the window and turn the key. no pedal pumping or choke setting. it just starts and runs smooth. yeah, computer controlled. so is your phone, tv, computer you are using to read this etc. it isn't that tough to figure out if you have the smarts to rebuild a 60-70 year old truck. do a little research and figure it out. there's lots of info out there on how to wire it up. buy a donor wreck and it should all be there for you.
on the other hand, in my opinion, it is YOUR truck and YOUR wallet and YOUR dream. if you want a small block chevy in there, put a small block chevy in there. if it is gonna save you money and time, how do you go wrong. it is what is important to YOU. not the guys on the forum.
my 57 gmc has a 4.2l inline 6 with fuel injection. it produces 275 hp at 6000 rpm, 275 ft/lbs torque at 3600 rpm. has dual overhead cams with variable valve timing and 24 valves per cylinder. it starts and runs smooth without a fuss and doesn't wake the neighbours. not out to smoke the tires but if I changed my mind it could be turbo'd for a different look than what you expect to see under the hood or an LS or SBC could be swapped in. change the bellhousing and use the driveline from the belhousing back.

end of rant

do what YOU want. some guys would rather spend all day tuning a carb than spend time doing electronics. to each their own. nothing wrong with either camp.

[Livemeyer]

Originally Posted by Mains52

The small block is really just to get it on the road quicker. It will give me time to have fun in the truck and rebuild the ls like I want.

When I got my truck three years ago, sans engine, the PO said it used to have a 327 in it. Obviously not when new, but it had been modified and came with a Powerglide transmission. I had never owned or ridden in one of these trucks before. I wanted once since I was a kid, but I decided to put this back to 1987 (last time it was licensed) to see what it was like, then do upgrades from there. So I put a 327 in it, pretty much right away. I had so much to do on the truck that it just made sense to throw an engine in so I could at least have the truck move under its own power. I think I will do an LS swap someday, but after I get everything else worked out - suspension (IFS), body, paint, etc.

So that was my way of saying SBC - for the easy win!

[Driver_WT]

Originally Posted by Atommik

1968 327 in my '51. Headers and a Edelbrock 600 carb. Simple quick and dependable. I maybe put on 1000 miles a summer. 12-15 mpg versus 20 mpg...not a big deal. 275-300 HP in my truck is good for me. $400 for the engine and a TH350 6 years ago fits my budget! I am a body man and did everything on my truck myself. I've probably got $6000 into it including the purchase price. For me, that was the way to go!

Nice job on fitting the hood. I am working on mine now and it is not yet that pretty for fit and gaps.

Wade

[vintovka]

While i still think a nice lightly used LS would have been better. my crate SBC seems to start fine and runs very strong. I am constantly having to slow down as it wants to run away all the time. Mileage seems to be slowly improving from initial 14 to 17. I have learned a lot that about crate SBCs that would have saved me big $ had i known. IMHO the cheapest w/o any chrome with the best and longest warranty is the best bet. The nice chromed timing and valve covers look great but leak like sieves if not "right stuffed" on. It also takes so long to get a truck done you can burn thru the months and years without a doubt leaving you with a brand new truck and expired warranties. . BTW Some crate SBCs will void your warranty if not installed by a qualified shop read the fine print first. They also can toss you for not having proof of when it was installed. Chevy Performance recently changed their warranty start from the purchase date to the install completion date which is fair. Did need to drag out the legal stick to do it however.. In closing I do worry some of these are built in China or other god forsaken place with little or no QA/QC. Good luck on those.

[mongocanfly]

("what you are missing, and they over there are missing too, is that traditional hotrodding is NOT about using a flathead or a sbc or any thing else that was used in the specific period they love. traditional hotrodding was always about using what is COMMONLY available to make your hot rod go faster, perform better etc.")
well said Russ

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

("what you are missing, and they over there are missing too, is that traditional hotrodding is NOT about using a flathead or a sbc or any thing else that was used in the specific period they love. traditional hotrodding was always about using what is COMMONLY available to make your hot rod go faster, perform better etc.")
well said Russ

When I was trying to do just that i was both broke and under the threat of getting popped in some stinking rice field.

[gigamanx]

I have an SBC. Total pain in the a$$ however I was new to cars and wanted to learn a carbureted engine first. I'm already shopping for an LS donor and have learned some key lessons.

1. If you buy an engine, try get the transmission with it
2. If you buy an engine, get the wiring harness and ECU
3. If you buy an engine, make sure the accessory drive is complete

I spent $800 on a SBC. I spent another $2000 on the accessory drive, transmission, wiring, carburetor, headers, intake manifold.

guess what I could have had for $2,800 Hint: It starts with "L" and ends in "S"

[Volfandt]

I put an SBC in my 49 GMC last fall. I went that route mainly due to the economics and secondly due to the fact I've known my way around them for a while now.

While it does have an HEI it's still carb'ed and it doesn't bother me to have to be the "CPU" when operating it. It took me on a nice 100 mile back road cruise this past weekend and it purred perfectly avg'ing 2k-2.5k RPM coupled with the TH350 and 80's model Nova rear (of which I do not know for fact it's ratio, but it works out fine, around 15 mpg).

For what I have in it, I couldn't ask for more (except maybe AC and music) from a weekend warrior, but then again the dual Dynaflows do sound good.

That said, if it were to be a DD I'd definitely invest in the ease of operation that computer controlled technology affords and go with an LS or FI on the SBC with a roller cam etc.

But as it is, it works and I enjoy being the CPU.
Carry On
Dave

[Livemeyer]

I will say that starting with a SBC block while easier isn't always cheaper. I traded a set of wheels for my 327 (about $600). It came with a bunch of extra parts that were mostly junk, like the Carter carburetor and a cruddy water pump and intake manifold. Still had to buy HEI distributor, new carb, alternator bracket and water pump, fuel pump, alternator and flex plate. After I got it running discovered it had very, very lumpy cam. Now I gotta invest in a 3,000 stall speed converter because it idles in drive at 500 rpm and gives me a "neck massage." That's what my mechanic called it after he installed aluminum heads on it for me, I needed to up the compression because the heads it came with were 1970's smog heads from a 350 with low-compression 76cc chambers. After spending all this money I could have just gone out and bought a new 383, or a bone yard LS.

[Chris(NJ)]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

("what you are missing, and they over there are missing too, is that traditional hotrodding is NOT about using a flathead or a sbc or any thing else that was used in the specific period they love. traditional hotrodding was always about using what is COMMONLY available to make your hot rod go faster, perform better etc.")
well said Russ

Agreed!


And I'm still on a SBC, although want an LS. But I have a lot of $ into this truck and the current motor, so I'm not even sure it's worth swapping motors or selling the truck down the road and starting over with a different motor.

[Mains52]

Ok guys I guess I should have disclosed that I have the harness for my LS done all it needs is re-loomed. I need to send my ecm to be tuned and really it should be good to go in that regard. My only fear is that its a 175k mile motor that was supposedly taken out after a low oil pressure problem couldn't be diagnosed. My current plan is to pull the crank check all of the bearings and replace all of the oil components. I've had this truck for 4 years and am just ready for it to look like I've done something to it ha.

[dsraven]

what engine did you get? does it have displacement on demand (DOD) or active fuel management (AFM, same thing)? if so look at the valving in the lifter valley cover and also watch for possible lifter issues, they have lifter collapse problems. they also have a fine filter screen under the oil pressure sender (after about 2007) that can get partially plugged and cause an issue with the sender reading the correct pressure.
the most common issue with oiling is the "O" ring on the oil pump pick up tube where it connects to the oil pump at the front cover. start there and look for a hard or cracked "O" ring. the oil pump would suck air at that point and cause a low oil pressure issue. some have repaired that in the truck but it isn't easy that way. also check the relief valve (pressure regulating valve) as it could possibly be sticking in it's bore with a stock GM pump body. google it for a good video of the fix.

are you planning to start the engine in the truck and do some checks before you remove it to tear it down? if so, allow it to warm up so you can get pressure readings cold and at operating temp. also you can listen for ticking lifters when warm. use a mechanical oil pressure gauge "T"ed into the fitting for the oil sender at the rear of the intake manifold area or at the block off plate near the oil filter.
oil comes from the pick up tube into the front cover oil pump, then down a gallery to the filter, through the filter to the block off plate area and then up to the rear of the block where it goes into galleries and feeds the main and rod bearings, cam bearings and lifters. if it has DOD-AFM it also feeds the mechanism for that which is located in the lifter valley cover. ensure the correct oil filter is being used as some have anti drain back valves and some don't, this keeps oil in the filter when the engine is shut off.
post up a few pics when you get after iut. if taking the engine apart run a plastigage check on the rods and mains when you disassemble and that can help you understand what you started with. at that point though you might as well install new while you're in there. have the crank checked and polished as well, if it is good to go.

[Stormin08]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Lack of factory EFI choices is a big driver behind smallblocks disappearing. I grabbed Vortec heads for my Chevelle back in '97, long before they became the next hottest craze. Mildly modified Vortec heads are good for 400 hp. But it took a *lot* of searching to find an OEM style EFI system to bolt on top that wasn't limited to 340ish hp and didn't cost an arm and leg. Most folks who choose sbc for a project today either use TBI and stick to the roughly 300 hp limit or they go carb which is kind of expensive and sometimes feels like a walk into the past. The LS package is easy to get 350-450 hp out of without ditching factory components. And the aftermarket is pregnant with LS goodies so why not?

All of my V8 vehicles have SBC's. I have a '99 Suburban waiting for a 302 SBC that I removed from my last Suburban. I have the '57 which also has a 302 which I built in '93. And I have parts here for a fun SBC to install in the Chevelle when I start working on it. I have a new Vortec 5.7 engine which had about 15k miles when removed. I have Honda rods and matching pistons from a dirt track engine. I have a set of 2.02/1.60 valves. I have a full set of 1.6 roller rockers. I have a copy of an older Lingenfelter roller cam which was in an engine dynoed at 465 hp. And I have three EFI systems from marine applications which promise to do a great job on top. The only thing I'm looking for is a smokin deal on parts for a 396 SBC so the SS badges on the side of the fender will have the correct displacement.

So what's this LS you speak of?

if i would have researched a little further, i think i could have gotten to factory TBI to cover my needs (400hp), but i had all ready decided to gut a rewire most of the under hood (lighting not included)...i went fitech, but wish i would have gone holley for better support.

[jweb]

I will say the most important thing is to decide what you want and do it once. It costs way more to do it twice, trust me I know.

The LS engines can be made to look good, with some simple changes. Here's mine

[Chris(NJ)]

Looks clean ^^^

[dsraven]

jweb, thats nice. where did you source those top end covers? good looking ride and attention to details.
sometimes I don't get it. guys will do stuff to purposely rust their ride so it looks like it just came out of a field, search all over for a nice patina part with the right dents or old lettering, then put a whack of shiny stuff under the hood and some big dollar wheels that look big enough to fit a locomotive. to each their own and I'm not knocking them in the least. I personally just don't understand it thats all. back in the day when I couldn't afford paint etc thats what I drove. now my ride will get paint for sure. done with that look, haha. the up side is you can park anywhere and not have a fish wagon park next to you and open their doors repeatedly on the nice paint job, they are afraid you might do that to them. lol.

[jweb]

Originally Posted by dsraven

jweb, thats nice. where did you source those top end covers? good looking ride and attention to details.
sometimes I don't get it. guys will do stuff to purposely rust their ride so it looks like it just came out of a field, search all over for a nice patina part with the right dents or old lettering, then put a whack of shiny stuff under the hood and some big dollar wheels that look big enough to fit a locomotive. to each their own and I'm not knocking them in the least. I personally just don't understand it thats all. back in the day when I couldn't afford paint etc thats what I drove. now my ride will get paint for sure. done with that look, haha. the up side is you can park anywhere and not have a fish wagon park next to you and open their doors repeatedly on the nice paint job, they are afraid you might do that to them. lol.

Thanks, those covers are stock from an '04-'06 GTO that I modified.

[Mains52]

[QUOTE=dsraven;8563465]what engine did you get? does it have displacement on demand (DOD) or active fuel management (AFM, same thing)?

Its a 2002 5.3. I believe it was in a Tahoe. Drive By Cable set up. I really need to just tear into it and check everything.

[MySons68C20]

I'm with you....I wanted an old school clean look with stock wire routing etc.
This is what I ended up with and I'm super happy with it.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

[mr48chev]

The good news is as long as you stick with a GM engine nothing is really "WRONG" as long as the engine and it's trim pieces match the build plan for the truck.

I've seen every 1st gen small block in one of these at one time or another. For a new build the entry cost might be a lot less and if you are one who is hung up on having carbs rather than FI you aren't wasting an LS by retrograding it to a carb. Also if you are shooting for a traditonal build complete with wide whites, hubcaps and roll and pleat it fits the image and can be dressed out right to look right when you head to Billetproof or Lonestar Roundup.


I've seen a lot of LS engines lately and that makes a lot of sense if you are building a modern style street rod truck that you plan to put serious miles on going to far flung parts of the country. Sticking with the factory FI and matching drive train you get real good gas mileage and those engines are good for way over 200K miles.

I've seen a lot of Buick Nailheads in them and a few Pontiac V8s and Olds and Cad V8's I've got a 350R out of a 76 Seville that I would stick in a 48/53 GMC in a second if I found one and it may go in the 51 1=1/2 ton with a matching Turbo 400 behind it just because I have it.

As long as everything works together as a package and nothing looks out of place in that package life is good.

[bosco]

I understand the attraction for the LS. But, I stuck with SBC. It's a 350 (5.7) from a '98 Tahoe. Put a carb on it and it runs great, very reliable, easy starting. Really don't even need to pump the throttle with the electric fuel pump.

[1project2many]

I've seen a lot of Buick Nailheads in them and a few Pontiac V8s and Olds and Cad V8's I've got a 350R out of a 76 Seville that I would stick in a 48/53 GMC in a second if I found one and it may go in the 51 1=1/2 ton with a matching Turbo 400 behind it just because I have it.

This is where I think the difference really shows up. Some people are happy following the recipe. The ingredients used to include SBC but these days they include LS just as often. And honestly that's not a problem. The chefs who really want to experiment use something different and see if anyone has a taste for the end result. Personally I think building a turbocharged 3800 powered truck using 95-ish F car parts would be fun. Plenty of power and lightweight, too. And I know I'd draw interesting comments using something like the LDK turbocharged 4 cylinder Ecotec. Old truck fans don't generally accept a four cylinder making 345hp/310 ft/lbs where a 185 HP v8 used to sit.