427 tall deck???? I need HELP!!!

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by 67 cst swb

The last 2 running tall deck 427's that I have heard about were only $250.00 each.
One was in Texas and the other was here in South Dakota.
So for $750.00, he better not only deliver it, but provide a guarantee that all parts are good, such as crank will clean up at np worse than .010/.010 and the block is not cracked.

Why is the guy getting rid of a running tall deck motor?

I sold the aforementioned one that I had for $750. The only thing that I did was pull the engine.

[1971 cheburban]

The brothers that have it are both over 70 and simply don't need the wrecker or the motor, and I asked and they said yes, 67 cst you should've jumped on them, you could've tripled your money on them to me, hahahahaha, I've only ever seen three tall decks in my area, then again these kids nowadays run these dang Nabbitt rice burners, so old vehicles are pretty uncommon around here, and the ones that are still here are owned by older guys who have the money to buy up the good big blocks and the good cars, so kids like me don't stand a chance, same way with the junkyards, guys go around and buy up anything half way rare and leave the neons, accents, and other rice burners for is poor folks, so this is about my last option For a big block, thanks guys again for all of the help. Also rickpilgrim if I get it I'm going to build this with the 6.8 rods, standard 454 pistons, regular big block heads and new dart intake with the corresponding distributor, so I'm not worried about the RPM band, should be good for 6,500 anyways, new cam, all new engine basically with a lighter rotating mass, and more compression, like 10:1, I'd like to run it on 93 plus some octane booster, I think it should work out nicely, I know it's going to be a pretty pricey experience but it should really be something if I get it done.

[67 cst swb]

Originally Posted by 1971 cheburban

...it's going to be a pretty pricey experience but it should really be something if I get it done.

Your right on the first part and I hope your right on the second part.

I hate to keep sounding negative about this, but... having seen a few people go down this road before and hearing their after-build thoughts. I think you could build a 427 much easier and probably cheaper, if you just called a few machine shops looking for a good 396 crank and a good 454 block. Then you could use a stock rod (much cheaper) instead of a expensive long rod being that your just going for a street performance build.
Even if you have to drive 100+ miles to find crank and block, at $1.00 a mile you might still be ahead of initial purchase price. I am so tempted to call around your area for you, but... I won't.
But Boy...hahaha... If you were my son... I'd have you on a mission right now... and it would be in the opposite direction of where your headed. It would involve a phone book, a telephone and a calculator.

Ok, I will try to keep my thought out of the rest of your post.
Remember... it's just my thoughts and opinions.

Good luck and I hope that I am all wrong about your direction.

[1971 cheburban]

Well 67 cst I really appreciate your thoughts and your time, and If I knew you I'd shake your hand. But like I said there is not jack $&@! Around here for big block stuff, there aren't even any actual machine shops within 30 miles. They are just industrial places that happen to have some machine stuff, one has a boring setup, then I have to go to another place for press work and cam bearings, and they don't even have engine blocks except for industrial diesel and stuff like that , so that's why I'm going this route, but I thank you for your time and help, I really do. I'll let you guys know when I'll get it

[rickpilgrim]

6500 rpm with a 4.25 stroke and 2.75 main bearing diameter? That will require a very strong crank and very tough bearings for sure, not to mention possible block girdle with the weight flying around. Yes, 454 3 ring pistons are lighter than 427 4 ring pistons but have you factored in the weight of those longer rods vs the lighter stock rods? And even the rectangular bbc factory heads will be struggling to feed 496 CID at
6500rpm.
The only guy I know around here who turns his 496 up to 6000 rpm has a Merlin block with AFR heads in his Camaro and he says any more rpm than 6000 his bearings start getting wiped out. If your using stock heads I'd set my cam and shift points for 5500rpm unless you have a great rebuild budget.
You need an aluminum head to run 93ron on 10/1 on a big block. Water/methanol injection will help but considering both of my cast iron head BB Chevys are 8.5 or less and need 93 ron for working hard and have just slightly faster than stock timing curves I wouldn't go that far up unless VP Racing Fuel was affordable to me or I was running propane for fuel.
Good Luck on your build

[1971 cheburban]

Rick pilgrim I'm not going with a longer stroke just longer rods, which will be lighter than the factory ones I would imagine, plus lighter pistons, it's basically going to be 4.250 bore or as close to that as I can keep it, maybe .010 over, the longer rods to make up for the 3 ring piston, lighter 454 pistons, and factory oval port heads and new dart intake. The reason I said 10:1 is my dad has a pretty much stock 440 in a 1969 dodge coronet r/t. It's 10.3:1 and runs nicely on 93 and a bottle of octane booster. Which I think should be reasonable for a BBC also, his also has the factory 906 heads, which are cast, and it runs perfect like I said 10.3:1, on 93 with a small bottle of octane booster, now I know Chrysler and Chevrolet are different but it can't be that far from the 440. But anyways I'm trying to keep as close to stock as I can but a bore job might be mandatory, so it might come out as a 430 cubic inch motor with the over bore

[rickpilgrim]

If you look up combustion chambers and detonation you'll find the wedge heads (like your dads 440) are preferred even now for there even flame pattern and detonation resistance even in modern engine design.
What I learned in powertrain engineering school in the early 80's was about dynamic compression. Dynamic compression is your static compression combined with camshaft design that results in high cylinder compression psi. My 511 CID Caddy motor had 230 psi compression with 8.5 compression pistons,angle milled heads, a comp cams 260/268 cam running 4 degrees advanced, 219/188 valves a some port work. That's the result of dynamic compression and it ran 93ron fuel with water/methanol injection and a gentle ignition timing curve.
My 427 tall block is mostly stock, has 650 Holley, Accell vac adv distributor and shorty headers. It has 130 psi compression and if you run the truck empty you can get away running 87ron fuel. Hook up the trailer and run it hard you need 93ron or you'll blow the porcelain tips right off the spark plugs. That's mild detonation yet if those were 454 pistons it would likely blow the lands off the pistons.
For a street toy I would shoot for 9-9.5/1 with iron heads and use a cam with 220-224@.050 intake and a tight lobe center and lots of lift straight up which will bleed off a touch of compression below 1500rpm but come on strong from 2000 to 5500 and work well with that Dart intake in the mid upper range and some 2" tube about 28" long headers with 3 1/2" collectors with dual 3" exhaust with x pipe. If you can find them rectangular port heads will help a lot as I know what it took in port work and valve work in my stroked 396 heads to get them to flow decent.
Good luck

[rickpilgrim]

By the way 71 chebuban I am not trying to lecture you or say your wrong or anything like that, just pass on some of the things I learned in school and the last 23 engines I set up/built for myself and other people in the last 11 yrs. I know what finances are today and don't want anyone else to have the expensive failures I have seen.
I have one right now, someone who had a hot 358 built for $4800 and stuffed in his C10 and didn't think he needed a rev limiter and engine builder neglected that also and going up the on ramp under full throttle his u joint let go and his memory tach recorded 7830 rpm just before the hyperutatic piston failed and $4800 flushed down the toilet.
Remember in this 1 point of compression is worth 20 or so hp but if you have to reduce the ign timing to run higher compression your loosing 30hp or more. I'd rather run less compression with a more aggressive timing on pump gas and keep the 30 or more hp than go the other way and loose 10 or more hp.
Good luck on your build