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09-25-2003, 01:22 PM
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#26 | |
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CCRider
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA
Posts: 2,232
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72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS |
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09-25-2003, 01:40 PM
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#27 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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Quote:
so for those of you who are not familiar with my truck, let me explain something.... my original I6 blew up, so a 'shade-tree' mechanic taught me how to rebuild a v8. when we dropped in the v8, we couldnt get it to fit right (or at least we thought that it was sitting way too far back into the firewall). i later learned that the v8 actually sits that far back.... anyways... the solution we came up with was to reverse the v8 motor mounts --- put the left mount on the right and the right mount on the left --- and they may even be upside down? not sure - i'd have to look.... anyways - so the motor sits about 4-5 inches forward of where it would usually sit.... of course --- we had to have a driveshaft manufactured to fit, and the linkage for the pedal, clutch and shifter linkage was all screwed up as a result.... but we managed to find solutions to it all.... i believe that some of the clutch pedal mechanism parts are still from the I6, but the rest of the stuff (brake pedal and shift linkages) are from the v8.... so - the shift linkages are the correct bars and everything, but lining them up is a bit difficult because it has a tendency to interfere with the clutch bar and the brake lines.... (yes, brakelines can be moved, no prob).... so fine69 (mike) spent about four hours at the ohio meet manufacturing new bushings and spacers, and moving the column, and adjusting all of the mechanisms - so that it would more closely resemble that of a current 1968 3-on-tree.... and now it does... so did the problem appear after the ohio meet? dunno.... like i said --- after everything was tightened up at the meet, i immediately had vibrations - but the vibrations were due to the U-Joints needed replaced..... and after the U-joints were replaced, yes - this vibration was still existent.... so i would guess that the vibration has been there since the ohio meet --- but i cannot say if the vibration was there BEFORE the ohio meet, because there is no way you could tell (she ran like crap - so it vibrated everything before the meet).... anyways - in my defense... before the ohio meet, i had never EVER met anyone on the board... and i had never EVER met a mechanic who worked on these trucks.... and i had never EVER driven another 67-72 truck (other than mine), so i had nothing to compare my baby to.... so i thought all of my problems were just every-day problems that came with old vehicles (i just assumed this based on ignorance).... i know better now --- and i can tell you that something is wrong... but i dont know what... hmmm.... maybe its time to take a trip back to mikey's house?  jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-25-2003, 01:58 PM
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#28 |
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Resident Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NH
Posts: 6,664
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Stop in at Gettysburg and get him a bear first! See GD board for more info on his "closet" fetish.
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Currently on or near the homestead: 67 Chevy SWB 2WD stepside 350/3 on tree (Pat's) 67 GMC SWB 2WD Fleet 402/auto (Brian's under construction) 67 Chevy 3/4 ton 2WD 402/auto (Business Hauler) 67 Chevy 1 ton dually 2WD 396/4 speed (Former business hauler, Needs TLC) 68 Chevy 1/2 ton Suburban 2WD 250 six/3 on tree (Brian's Needs TLC) 70 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD 350/4 speed (Pat's - Disguised as a 68 GMC) 71 Chevy SWB stepside (Crushed by tree - parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD (Parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD Suburban (Parts Donor) 72 GMC 3/4 ton 4WD 292 six/4 speed (Mine - Disguised as a 67 GMC) 81 GMC 4WD Dually Dump Body 350/4 speed (Business Hauler) 82 Camaro Z/28 355/Super T-10 (Pat's toy) 93 Caprice 9C1 (Brian's Cop Car) 02 Toyota Camry (Reliable but a souless steel and plastic hulk) 2011 2SS RS Camaro M6 Factory Hurst Shifter  Maybe I need to sell some of this crap  Yet another Bozo with a sawz-all |
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09-25-2003, 02:06 PM
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#29 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Worth
Posts: 71
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Jewels i have the same problem, I have a 67 GMC and when im driving down the freeway it pops out of 3rd too, i havent given it much attention cause i just hold on to the shifter, but it never does it when im on the streets. But i need to fix it. Thanks all for the good advice. Hopefully it will hold till i put a 350/350 combo.
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09-25-2003, 02:10 PM
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#30 |
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CCRider
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA
Posts: 2,232
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Well now the truth comes out...lol. When I read your first post,I ASSumed that the truck was working fine and just started doing this. With what you have described now it sounds like backyard engineering is the problem. The way you moved the motor it may not be possible or cost effective to get the stock linkage working...the easy way out may be a floor shifter
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72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS |
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09-25-2003, 02:18 PM
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#31 |
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WHYBYNU when old will do?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Loudon, NH
Posts: 876
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Was there any police cars around when it popped out of gear? Maybe its one of those extremely rare "cop detector options."
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-72 Chevy C10 Stepside -2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 -1984 Jeep CJ7 -1995 Polaris XCR600 Custom -2003 Honda 300ex |
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09-25-2003, 02:18 PM
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#32 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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oh no --- now you think that i just cant ask this question.....
but let me say this --- mike (fine69) got the linkage working really really really well - as in almost stock.... thats why i dont think it is the linkage acting up.... of course, i cant tell exactly, but i still hesistate to think the linkage is the problem because of the big "chunk" in the tranny when it pops out.... its not like the linkage is not engaging -- its like the high MPH causes a vibration - which seems to "shake" the transmission out of gear.... does that make sense? mike will probably say that i am "overthinking" the problem.... i asked him to chime in on this message, so i will wait and see what he has to say.... jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-25-2003, 02:22 PM
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#33 | |
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Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NH
Posts: 6,664
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Quote:
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Currently on or near the homestead: 67 Chevy SWB 2WD stepside 350/3 on tree (Pat's) 67 GMC SWB 2WD Fleet 402/auto (Brian's under construction) 67 Chevy 3/4 ton 2WD 402/auto (Business Hauler) 67 Chevy 1 ton dually 2WD 396/4 speed (Former business hauler, Needs TLC) 68 Chevy 1/2 ton Suburban 2WD 250 six/3 on tree (Brian's Needs TLC) 70 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD 350/4 speed (Pat's - Disguised as a 68 GMC) 71 Chevy SWB stepside (Crushed by tree - parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD (Parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD Suburban (Parts Donor) 72 GMC 3/4 ton 4WD 292 six/4 speed (Mine - Disguised as a 67 GMC) 81 GMC 4WD Dually Dump Body 350/4 speed (Business Hauler) 82 Camaro Z/28 355/Super T-10 (Pat's toy) 93 Caprice 9C1 (Brian's Cop Car) 02 Toyota Camry (Reliable but a souless steel and plastic hulk) 2011 2SS RS Camaro M6 Factory Hurst Shifter Maybe I need to sell some of this crap Yet another Bozo with a sawz-all |
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09-25-2003, 03:09 PM
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#34 |
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Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Urbana,Ohio,USA
Posts: 4,618
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Ok. I drove the truck after i fixed the shift linkage. It had no vibrations that any other 30+ year old truck had. And it wasnt popping out of gear then.
I have had this same problem. It is in the tranny. Sycro's are bad. If anyone thinks they can readjust it and fix it be my guest. Jewels, come back over and i will put another tranny in it at NO charge. |
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09-25-2003, 03:20 PM
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#35 |
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Wiseass secured himself a BAN
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: MOON!!!
Posts: 2,282
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Mechanical Engineer????? I will think of you differently now. She is not a dumb girl. :p
I would love to be a ME. I need a TON of help in the mathematical arena.....  I also think that it is either the input shaft bearing or a worn Synchro. |
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09-25-2003, 03:31 PM
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#36 | |
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Fabricate till you "puke"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ill
Posts: 9,403
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Quote:
:p crazyL
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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09-25-2003, 03:31 PM
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#37 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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ooooh - i love it when someone knows the answer to my question! and the reason you know this is because you have driven my truck! woohoo!!! now, do you think i can replace this synchro myself? who was talking about a tranny rebuild earlier? i am gonna make some phone calls in town to see if anyone works on manuals, but in this small place, i doubt it.... but.... i will be in KC very shortly, so maybe there will be more facilities there? dunno... fine69! thanks for the offer, but i am packin up and movin really soon.... who knows -- i might be back --- we will see.... does anyone think i will be safe driving my truck at lower and slower speeds? say, if i keep it under 65? it doesnt seem to pop out then... but i suppose it will still wear out that synchro, right? hmmm - well, at least i am not driving the truck to KC (she's gonna get towed!) thanks guys! you are ALL awesome!!! jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-25-2003, 04:12 PM
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#38 | |
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Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NH
Posts: 6,664
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Quote:
__________________
Currently on or near the homestead: 67 Chevy SWB 2WD stepside 350/3 on tree (Pat's) 67 GMC SWB 2WD Fleet 402/auto (Brian's under construction) 67 Chevy 3/4 ton 2WD 402/auto (Business Hauler) 67 Chevy 1 ton dually 2WD 396/4 speed (Former business hauler, Needs TLC) 68 Chevy 1/2 ton Suburban 2WD 250 six/3 on tree (Brian's Needs TLC) 70 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD 350/4 speed (Pat's - Disguised as a 68 GMC) 71 Chevy SWB stepside (Crushed by tree - parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD (Parts donor) 72 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD Suburban (Parts Donor) 72 GMC 3/4 ton 4WD 292 six/4 speed (Mine - Disguised as a 67 GMC) 81 GMC 4WD Dually Dump Body 350/4 speed (Business Hauler) 82 Camaro Z/28 355/Super T-10 (Pat's toy) 93 Caprice 9C1 (Brian's Cop Car) 02 Toyota Camry (Reliable but a souless steel and plastic hulk) 2011 2SS RS Camaro M6 Factory Hurst Shifter Maybe I need to sell some of this crap Yet another Bozo with a sawz-all |
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09-25-2003, 04:34 PM
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#39 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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Quote:
jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-25-2003, 04:57 PM
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#40 | |
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Glowing since 1978
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lusby,MD,USA
Posts: 532
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Jewels, I had the same problem you describe on my Corvette. Well almost the same problem. My car has a M-21 Muncie 4 speed and the vibration was very noticeable through the Hurst floor shifter. It would pop out of fourth gear when driving on the highway forcing me to maintain slight pressure on the shift lever to prevent the shift into neutral. My problem was traced down to a very wore pilot bearing. It allowed the front shaft of the transmission to move a small amount up, down, and side to side. This action created the vibration and the shift lever moving into neutral. When you drop the transmission. Inspect the pilot bearing and I'll bet it is wore far beyond what is acceptable. If it is wore bad use a bolt slightly larger than the inner diameter of the pilot bearing and long enough to make contact with the crankshaft when you thread it into the pilot bearing. Grind the end of the bolt to a taper that is small enough to enter the hole of the pilot bearing. Start threading the bolt into the pilot bearing and it will cut it's own threads as you go. When the bolt contacts the crankshaft the pilot bearing will remove itself. Good luck. Hey, pilot bearings cost about $3 to $4. Now that is what I call a cheap fix. Good luck.
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66 Chevy C30 Stakebody Dump, PS,PB, 327cu in 71 Corvette Coupe 454 4 speed 69 Chevy C20 Custom Camper |
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09-25-2003, 05:56 PM
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#41 |
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Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 2,155
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^I agree with this guy. Mine (SM465) used to pop out of 3rd if I didn't hold it up in position. When I got the engine rebuilt, replaced the pilot bearing, and it doesn't do it anymore.
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1942 Master Deluxe 1969 C/10 1985 Blazer CUCV 1987 Jimmy 2004 Tahoe 2005 Silverado 1500 2005 Silverado 3500 |
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09-25-2003, 06:13 PM
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#42 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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would i have replaced the pilot bearing when i rebuilt the engine?
(i cant remember - i'd have to go look at my notes) is it a typical thing to replace in a rebuild? thanks! jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-25-2003, 07:34 PM
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#43 | |
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Fabricate till you "puke"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ill
Posts: 9,403
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Quote:
crazyL
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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09-25-2003, 08:01 PM
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#44 |
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Glowing since 1978
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lusby,MD,USA
Posts: 532
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Jewels,
It is not normally a rebuild item so to speak. It is a very inexpensive piece that should be inspected and replaced if needed anytime you have the transmission out. It is possible in a rebuild situation that the original pilot bearing stayed in the crankshaft end and was not replaced. Even if the crank had work done to it. Just check and see if you bought one. If you don't remember looking at the transmission side of the crankshaft and saying to yourself how do I get that thing out. You may have not replaced it. It is easy to miss because it looks like it is part of the crankshaft. If that is the case, it probably has never been replaced. The pilot bearing is softer material than the front shaft causing the bearing to wear. Now your probably getting ugly visual pictures of a real sloppy journal bearing as the support for the front of your transmission shaft. Wonder what kind of havoc that would cause?
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66 Chevy C30 Stakebody Dump, PS,PB, 327cu in 71 Corvette Coupe 454 4 speed 69 Chevy C20 Custom Camper |
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09-25-2003, 09:08 PM
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#45 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stillwater MN
Posts: 1,166
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A silly question, maybe, but...was the V8 from an automatic vehicle??? The crank woudn't even have a pilot bearing in it to begin with!!! If you don't know for sure, I would pull the trans. I have rebuilt many 3 and 4 speed transmissions, and it's not something you take lightly. I have a special shaft I machined to fit the counter gear and all 100 needle bearings back into the case without them falling out. I doubt you have one of them in your tool box. If the trans needs to be rebuilt, I suggest having it professionally done.
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69 GMC K10 ..some restoration required....still..
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09-25-2003, 09:53 PM
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#46 |
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I need another Barley Pop
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 1,629
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Well, I would have to disagree with those who believe that your problem "has" to be the pilot bushing or bearing. I have a used tranny (SM465) in my truck and it often pops out of 3rd gear. 1st, 2nd and 4 are fine. Due to recent clutch problems I have had over the past 6 months (this weekend will be my 4th time pulling my trans and t-case) I can tell you that I have all new clutch components installed, including the pilot bearing, and my trans still pops out of 3rd gear. Not saying that the pilot bearing couldn't be the problem, just saying that it's not the final answer to why yours is popping out of gear.
Just something to think about before you get your hopes up thinking that a $3-$4 dollar part will cure your problem. Keep us posted and let us know what it turns out to be.
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67 Short Fleet 4x4 04 Honda CRF450R 89 Toyota 4-Runner 34 Ford 2 door sedan - Long term project ---------------------------------------------- There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness" 
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09-25-2003, 10:15 PM
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#47 | |
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Glowing since 1978
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lusby,MD,USA
Posts: 532
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Quote:
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66 Chevy C30 Stakebody Dump, PS,PB, 327cu in 71 Corvette Coupe 454 4 speed 69 Chevy C20 Custom Camper |
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09-26-2003, 12:06 AM
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#48 |
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Cantankerous Geezer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bel Aire, KS
Posts: 6,264
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If you can put together an engine, you can rebuild the tranny. No special tools except for big snap-ring pliers. The rebuild manual has six pages of detailed instructions and diagrams. Shouldn't be a problem.
I hadn't thought about the pilot bearing. Of course, you have to pull the tranny to do anything, so start there. Inspect the bushing, and if you have to remove it, you fill the cavity behind it with grease from your grease gun, then take a piece of dowel rod that is snug in the bushing, and drive in the dowel with a hammer. The pressure on the grease will force the bushing out. I'm curious about what kind of job you're taking. I know there aren't that many engineering jobs out there right now, I'm at Boeing Wichita and we're looking at major cuts in engineering if the tanker project doesn't get passed soon.
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Fred There is no such thing as too much cam...just not enough engine.
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09-26-2003, 01:12 AM
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#49 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,100
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Quote:
he has even offered to pass off clients and contacts if i like the field.... and if that doesnt work out, i'm going to try yet another field, and take a full time job in that.... its all up in the air.... ask me again in a month, and i'll tell you what i think about it.... jewels.
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68 C10 Red Step 350 my first child & main focus 58 3200 Apache LWB Step the upcoming project |
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09-26-2003, 04:31 AM
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#50 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Urbana,Ohio,USA
Posts: 4,618
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Jeg's has roller pilot bearings.
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