More on EVs from a guy trying to sell them

[mongocanfly]

Cant believe they loaded smoldering cars on the rollbacks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Cant believe they loaded smoldering cars on the rollbacks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY

That's funny, I just watched that earlier this evening when I was surfing YouTube. I guess since they cant completely extinguish them and they have to get them to a safe place that's the only way they can do it. Like you, I find it odd that the towing companies will transport them.

[Boog]

I'm no fireman but it looks like to me that blanket would contain the heat and prolong the cool down.
I believe, as EV become more common, residential architects will no doubt be making changes in home designs, in as far as vehicle parking areas are concerned, to no longer include personal vehicle storage into the home structure. Outside parking and charging will be pushed by insurance companies , removing this risk to the homes and occupants.

[Boog]

Speaking of vids. Recently I saw a short where a front end loader, similar to those used to load logs, was used to clamp onto a burning ev and take it to the side of the roadway and drop the car over the side onto a waterfront. It fell short of reaching the water but at least it was away from anything else.

[Accelo]

Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.

There is some logic to the results. After all, gasoline-powered cars depend on combustion to move. The energy transfer electric cars use to move doesn’t involve anything burning.

Researchers also tallied fire-related recalls filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 2020. Gasoline-powered cars were subject to far more recalls for fire risk. EVs came in second and hybrids were a distant third that year. However, we should caution that limiting recall research to 2020 means the analysts missed most of last year’s escalating series of Chevy Bolt fire recalls.

“Despite the focus on EV fires in the news,” the researchers concluded, “they are not inherently more dangerous than gas or hybrid vehicles, although electric fires tend to be more difficult than gas fires to extinguish.”

Full disclosure, I own an EV. I also own four trucks. Love my trucks and I can Drive my Silverado on long trips if needed. My daughter lives 60 miles away and the round trip, 120 miles, costs me less than $3 to drive the EV round trip. I can drive about 10miles with the Silverado for the same money.
Efficiency is the name of the game, traveling further with less costs. EV are already good and will get better as battery technology improves. Lots of arguments for and against. High initial cost, lower ranges and long refueling times. With the average transaction price for a new full-size pickup truck exceeding $59,000 this year at least one issue, high cost, is maybe interpreted differently for different folks. The highest cost, per vehicle mile, is no doubly my 70 C10. Very few miles with high initial cost.

One thing EV can do it turn in the potential energy from going downhill, or just slowing down, back into electricity. This is a major advantage of an EV. I have a friend living 900 feet above my elevation. It takes 4kw's of energy to get there and only 1kw to get home because it's charging all the way down the hill. Some advantages and some disadvantageous of each. I have found this thread very interesting. I acknowledge many do not want to be told what type of vehicle to purchase, I get that.
As a proponent of efficiency, I know I have not changed anybody’s mind with my dissertation. But here it is for what it's worth.

[LS short box]

Hertz is selling their EV rentals. Something like 20,000. No one wants to rent them.

[68bowtie]

I’d like to know more about that (hertz thing). They are always selling older vehicles. Is it a higher than usual quantity?

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by Accelo

The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.

We might have slightly different opinions on some things but ai like the way you think. I love looking at data and statistics like this to ground all the rumors and things you hear online. It’s good to keep an open mind…

That said, I do wonder if this these statistics factor in the age of the vehicles. EV’s are all pretty new. There’s a 100+ year history of ICE vehicles on the road. The longer any vehicle is around the more risk there will be of failures.

What would it look like if this evaluated just the cars Less than five years old? I’m willing to bet that once EV’s are getting to the 20 to 30 year old range it may be different.

I agree with your points about EV’s being more efficient and cheaper to drive. Apples to apples, new car vs new car (not car vs truck, and not considering resale value or battery replacement cost).

I see this like I see a lot of other things, I don’t care what you do, and I’d happily ride shotgun in your EV to grab beers haha… just don’t force me to buy one!

[FirstOwner69]

Originally Posted by 68bowtie

I’d like to know more about that (hertz thing). They are always selling older vehicles. Is it a higher than usual quantity?

This just hit my inbox. I haven't digested it fully.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/hert...emaileditorial

[Boog]

Hertz and Tesla news

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...9834c8aa&ei=48

[DeadheadNM]

Interesting post about charging in extreme cold…

[PbFut]

I think the Hertz issue of low demand has to do with the customer unsure of availability to charge in an unfamiliar area.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by PbFut

I think the Hertz issue of low demand has to do with the customer unsure of availability to charge in an unfamiliar area.

Partly . I know if I’m on vacation or a business trip the last thing I need or want to do is look for or wait charge up the car . I want to pull into a station fill up and be out in a few minutes.

Some Hotels do have charging stations but maybe one or two so if 5 people need to charge a car your waiting in line

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Getter-Done

These are fair questions.
I can only speak for my thoughts as this was years ago.

You said you took a buyout. Is the plant still open?

I also had a Maxima -- a new "end of year" 1999 with the 3.0 liter V6 and 5-speed manual trans. It was a base GXE, but I installed take-off alloy wheels and tires from an SE model just after I bought it. That car was one of the most fun daily drivers I've ever had!

I traded it in after >120K miles, and the only things it ever needed were brake pads, and then two of the 3 oxygen sensors at around 100K miles. I can't think of any American-branded 4-door sedan back then that would have come anywhere close to the Maxima's fun factor and reliability.

I'm not sure where it was built. What kind of vehicles did the Smyrna plant build back in 1999?

[Getter-Done]

Originally Posted by MikeB

You said you took a buyout. Is the plant still open?

I also had a Maxima -- a new "end of year" 1999 with the 3.0 liter V6 and 5-speed manual trans. It was a base GXE, but I installed take-off alloy wheels and tires from an SE model just after I bought it. That car was one of the most fun daily drivers I've ever had!

I traded it in after >120K miles, and the only things it ever needed were brake pads, and then two of the 3 oxygen sensors at around 100K miles. I can't think of any American-branded 4-door sedan back then that would have come anywhere close to the Maxima's fun factor and reliability.

I'm not sure where it was built. What kind of vehicles did the Smyrna plant build back in 1999?

Yes, the plant is still open and producing vehicles.

They have been there since 1983.

The 1999 you had was built in Japan.
Production of the Maxima did not start in Smryna till 2003 for the 2004 model year.

1999 was a big year of chance for the Smryna plant.
The last Sentra rolled off the line in March,
to be replaced by production of the Xterra.

I worked on the Altima line at that time.

They produced Altima ,Sentra, Frontiers and Xterra's

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Interesting post about charging in extreme cold…

That's an honest appraisal by Mark and the EV owner he spoke with.

[Accelo]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Interesting post about charging in extreme cold…

I looked up the temp in Kelowna, BC on the 13th of Jan, the date in the picture. It was nowhere near -45 deg. It was indeed cold but the low was -20F or -28C. No where near the temp given in the picture.
It is (866 mi) to Saskatoon, SK, Canada and would take 16 h 28 min to drive. That includes the time to charge, (in good weather). Which includes a total of less than 2 hours total charging time.

If it is extremely cold, somewhere below 0°C (32°F), Extended charging times becomes observable. At a Supercharger (High Voltage DC charger, or level 3 charger), the delay can be 45 minutes or an hour, perhaps even longer before it has warmed up the battery sufficiently to begin charging. Then it will charge at a normal or near normal rate.

You do experience reduced range, and have to take that into account. I’d estimate that I lose about 30% of my total range when it is 0 degrees F out, between reduced battery capacity and using some of that battery to keep the car and the battery warm. Yeah, the battery has to warm itself up to improve performance, which uses some of the charge of course.

If John from Kelowna, had preheated the battery, like Tesla recommends, he would have not had to wait so long to charge. Let’s say he lives there and the battery had cooled overnight and he could not charge at home. Also, the possibility he was going home and spent the night here. Several hotels offer charging in Kelowna. Again, with an EV one has to take some common-sense precautions especially when it gets that cold. Or alleged that cold.
Then he would have had a wait for the battery to warm before charging. The battery warming only requires a small portion of the 150kw, which is what the charger in Kelowna is capable of, yes I looked it up. If the battery was at zero and fully charged to get to $100 dollars (US) he would have been paying .75 cents a KWH. He stated it was only at 2/3 of a charge. That would be over $1 per KWh. I pay .08 cents to charge at home and typically under .30 cents (US) at a super charger. Also note Fuel in Kelowna is about $55.0 a gallon. A 20-gal tank a fill up would be $110.
What I am saying none of the post is adding up. Including the picture. I looked all the Kelowna Super Charging stations up and only one is at a mall and it doesn't look anything like the picture. The costs do not add up. And the logic is questionable. It’s unlikely anybody would attempt this long trip on a day so cold in an EV.

My Tesla knows where all the superchargers are, how far it is from them, and how much battery charge is left. If I ever wander away too far, it warns me of this situation and suggests a solution. It continues to warn me. If I totally ignore this, I get into the same situation as you do when you run out of gas.

A long post full of BS most will not care about. I just happen to like facts.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by Accelo

You do experience reduced range, and have to take that into account.

It’s unlikely anybody would attempt this long trip on a day so cold in an EV.

If I totally ignore this, I get into the same situation as you do when you run out of gas.

I like to know that I can get in my vehicle any time I want, regardless of the weather, and go as far as I want or need to go.

And, no, it's not the same situation as when you run out of gas. You can't pour a gallon of electrons in your EV and be on your way.

I'm glad the EV works for you, but it's definitely not for everyone.

[Accelo]

"I'm glad the EV works for you, but it's definitely not for everyone".

You are absolute correct, EV's are not for everyone. If you can charge at home and don't travel long distances, especially in cold areas, they may work for you.
I don't care if anyone owns one or not. I do care about misinformation.

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by Accelo

I looked up the temp in Kelowna, BC on the 13th of Jan, the date in the pictureÂ…I just happen to like facts.

If you re-read that guyÂ’s post it doesnÂ’t disclose where the photo was taken. It doesnÂ’t claim that it was in Kelowna only that John is from Kelowna. Agree? His post implies it was in Saskatoon.

[Accelo]

I agree, it does look like his was in Saskatoon

Still some of the same logic applies.
272Km from Saskatoon, SK, Canada to the first charging station at Swift current.
He stated he has about a 280km range in the cold.
I would never even consider running the range that close in -45C or -49F.

[68bowtie]

I just have to say, damn that’s cold!!

[Boog]

Major brrrrrrrrr.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Accelo

I looked up the temp in Kelowna, BC on the 13th of Jan, the date in the picture. It was nowhere near -45 deg. It was indeed cold but the low was -20F or -28C. No where near the temp given in the picture.

The guy named Mark didn't say they were in Kelowna, just that the EV driver was from there. And that he frequently drove between Saskatoon and Kelowna, which is around 1,200 km. So who knows what the air temperature variance could be over that distance? Ah, just found these current temperatures (in degres C):

Kelowna: -13
Saskatoon: -31
Calgary: -32

As for prices/kwh, I've heard that charging station prices can vary quite a bit from small town (with little to no competition) to large town, just like gasoline prices. Here's the range of current gasoline prices at 77 different stations along Interstate 40 in Arizona, a road that I've driven a lot over the years.

Lowest $2.59
Average: $3.24
Highest: $3.99

And prices get well over $5.00 as you drive into California.

I couldn't find similar data on battery charging stations for that stretch of highway.

But I call little to no B.S. on Mark. His tone just didn't seem to be "hair on fire" against EVs.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by joedoh

My brother told me once that I needed an apple watch, that it was made for guys like me. I thought he couldn't know me less well, that if he knew me at all the idea of a watch that I had to charge every single night, that duplicated the basic time keeping of the $100 watch I wore that would last years on a single battery.

So it is with EV, here is something that costs significantly more than the thing I already have, that has to be charged every night, that only mirrors the same functions my current car already has....

I was just reading through this thread and came across the post above. Very funny! Great analogy.