Rust Encapsulator For Primer - Anyone Tried It?

[AU Doc]

I'll preface this with I know the ideal way to prep for paint is to media blast all rust and then prime with an epoxy primer. That said, there are situations where other options are attractive. E.g., maybe you live in a restoration blackhole where no one local either has the equipment or expertise to do the work properly. Or maybe you're just building a driver and want a driver quality paint job.

At any rate, assuming media blasting is not an option, and the rust can't be removed with just sanding.

Has anyone used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator as a primer for their paint job (on the exterior panels that is)? Eastwood claims that is one of the intended uses. Specifically for cases where there is some rust along with bare metal and even some paint/primer. I could see where panels with some surface rust and some pitting would make sense for this.

[REDROCKER652002]

Gonna follow this one. I was interested on how this stuff works as well.

[AU Doc]

I'll be honest, as much as I would love a paint job that looks 10' deep, I probably wouldn't actually drive it. I'd be too afraid of scratches, chips, and dings.

So if I could prime an entire truck with Rust Encapsulator and never have to worry about it rusting ever again, then I would be willing to accept some imperfections in the paint.

But I don't know if that's how it would actually work or not.

[theastronaut]

Rust never sleeps... and those kind of products do not "kill" the rust deeper down than surface level, so it's still growing and eating steel in the pits.

Imperfections in the paint has nothing to do with how the rust is treated or removed, unless you mean a few years down the road when the rust that wasn't removed starts popping back out.

[AU Doc]

I guess that really is the root of the question. How long does this stuff actually work?

This stuff is advertised as a method to chemically convert and then encapsulate rust to both stop it and prevent it from progressing. People have been coating frames with this stuff for years, and at least in my experience it works extremely well. Now I've never applied it, waited a decade, then cut up the pieces to see what sort of progression has taken place, but I've never had it bubble up and flake off, either.

Unfortunately, I've only been able to find anecdotal information on long-term applications. Though I suppose that's what I'm asking for here as well.

It looks like Hot Rod at least gave this a try as well, and on a C10 no less. Unfortunately, so much of the stuff you read on those sites is just an advertisement, it's hard to separate the facts.


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...n-one-weekend/

[lupo]

The true rust encapsulater is a Permanent Rust Sealer. It's a moisture cured urethane that's heavily pigmented with non-leafing aluminum flake. It is one of the most powerful primers in the industrial coatings industry. I've been painting cars using this type of primer on the body for almost 30 years. Restoration shops such as Vintage cars in South Carolina, Automotive metal, Connors motorcars prime the restorations inside and out with this type of primer. As a comparison three coats of this primer will run upward of 12,000 hours salt spray, epoxy run around 1000. My 55 is painted like this back in 2006 and the paint is still flawless. Step number one acid wash the car with metal prep. Follow the directions. Step two put two coats of the Permanent Rust Sealer. You can do your bodywork at this point and when you're done another coat of the permanent rust sealer over the bodywork step three epoxy or urethane surfacer and then your topcoats.It is most important use the nonleafing formula as this is the primer. It dries toothy so paints stick to it.

[AU Doc]

Originally Posted by lupo

The true rust encapsulater is a Permanent Rust Sealer. It's a moisture cured urethane that's heavily pigmented with non-leafing aluminum flake. It is one of the most powerful primers in the industrial coatings industry. I've been painting cars using this type of primer on the body for almost 30 years. Restoration shops such as Vintage cars in South Carolina, Automotive metal, Connors motorcars prime the restorations inside and out with this type of primer. As a comparison three coats of this primer will run upward of 12,000 hours salt spray, epoxy run around 1000. My 55 is painted like this back in 2006 and the paint is still flawless. Step number one acid wash the car with metal prep. Follow the directions. Step two put two coats of the Permanent Rust Sealer. You can do your bodywork at this point and when you're done another coat of the permanent rust sealer over the bodywork step three epoxy or urethane surfacer and then your topcoats.It is most important use the nonleafing formula as this is the primer. It dries toothy so paints stick to it.

Are you referring to Mastercoat?

This would indicate that at least some shops have experience using rust encapsulators as a primer. Which is promising! And it sounds like they have a solid history.

[lupo]

Originally Posted by AU Doc

Are you referring to Mastercoat?

This would indicate that at least some shops have experience using rust encapsulators as a primer. Which is promising! And it sounds like they have a solid history.

Yes they have a long history. With great success. And that is the brand that I use.

[REDROCKER652002]

This is very promising news, as I was going to start stripping and doing some work on my son's hood, with his help of course. So, once I strip the old paint, I can spray this on to get any pit rust stopped, block and work the panel, using filler for low spots. Then use it to prime and seal? Three coats of the master coat and then it is ready for primer and top coat? My son is looking to go with the flat black look, so this could really be a lifesaver.

[lupo]

Originally Posted by REDROCKER652002

This is very promising news, as I was going to start stripping and doing some work on my son's hood, with his help of course. So, once I strip the old paint, I can spray this on to get any pit rust stopped, block and work the panel, using filler for low spots. Then use it to prime and seal? Three coats of the master coat and then it is ready for primer and top coat? My son is looking to go with the flat black look, so this could really be a lifesaver.

That is correct. Recoat times is generally four hours. If it goes beyond seven days scuff it with 20 grit. there is a tip sheet on the site that will show you different techniques with this type of primer/sealer.

[Gregski]

share some pics bro so we know what you is up against, as I have shot some of that VooDoo magic spray into things like quarter panel holes or inside doors just for the sake of pretending it will stop the rust, but are you talking about like outside of the car body panels, in which case I have found if you can't get it out with a wire wheel on an angle grinder (not a drill) then you got to cut it out and weld a patch in

just trying to help

[REDROCKER652002]

Originally Posted by Gregski

share some pics bro so we know what you is up against, as I have shot some of that VooDoo magic spray into things like quarter panel holes or inside doors just for the sake of pretending it will stop the rust, but are you talking about like outside of the car body panels, in which case I have found if you can't get it out with a wire wheel on an angle grinder (not a drill) then you got to cut it out and weld a patch in

just trying to help

If that was for me, I appreciate that. I don't have any pics, but I am looking at the hood as my first project. Fairly flat and seems to be the easiest to get on and off. LOL. My plan is to strip it, try and get as much of the pitted rust out as I can without doing too much harm to the metal. If this stuff works it will be the answer. This is going to be a first try for my son and I, so who knows. I chose the hood cause I know I can get a repop one if I screw it up. LOL.

Thanks for the info, I do appreciate the input.

Sorry to hijack the thread. We now return you to the original poster. RR

[AU Doc]

Originally Posted by REDROCKER652002

If that was for me, I appreciate that. I don't have any pics, but I am looking at the hood as my first project. Fairly flat and seems to be the easiest to get on and off. LOL. My plan is to strip it, try and get as much of the pitted rust out as I can without doing too much harm to the metal. If this stuff works it will be the answer. This is going to be a first try for my son and I, so who knows. I chose the hood cause I know I can get a repop one if I screw it up. LOL.

Thanks for the info, I do appreciate the input.

Sorry to hijack the thread. We now return you to the original poster. RR

Nope. This is exactly the sort of thing I was asking the question for. We all know the ideal situation is to blast the panels, or even cut out completely. But for a DIY'er, if these encapsulator products really work, then it could save us a TON of time and money.

Assuming these products stop rust, the other issue that comes to mind is ensuring the pits don't have any "flakey" rust in them that could flake off after being treated. Anecdotally, I've used some of these encapsulators on some pretty far gone parts, and knocking off the scale with a wire wheel seems to be enough. But for an exterior panel, I would want to make sure I'm left with a solid surface for the paint to adhere to.

It would be awesome to get someone with some experience doing this to chime in and lest us know what the process looks like.

[Richard2112]

I have used it and it does work. But you must remove all the visible rust before spraying. Any rust which remains in the pits should be treated with a phosphoric acid to convert it and after a cure period (24 hours) spray it. So I'm not actually sure that it was the rust encapsulator or the extra insurance against rust reforming that made it work. I do know that others have used it and had rust come through eventually. Rust encapsulator alone is not the best solution.

The phosphoric acid converts the rust to iron phosphate (turns black)

[lupo]

I just spent the last half hour trying to post a picture of my 55 Chevrolet hardtop. Unfortunately I can't figure it out. If you cannot strip the hood completely down, DA it down with 220 apply two coats of the permanent rust sealer and and apply your primer and your topcoat. I've been doing it this way for almost 30 years. On bare metal wipe it down with acid prep with zinc which will clean out all the pits and apply two coats of the permanent rust sealer. When you've apply two coats of this sealer and one coat of color this system will run thousands of hours of salt spray. If this primer is scratched the rust will not travel beyond the scratch. Do not use black moisture cured's as a primer.

[lupo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEyjR7jTWk Is a video of encapsulaters, rust oleum, calcium sulfonate coatings like fluid film and cavity wax and epoxy primer

[AU Doc]

@lupo that is a very informative video. I wish I could find something like that for the Eastwood products as well since they are so common.

[lupo]

Just remember one thing. What you get in the automotive hobby is not exactly what the industry standards are. Technical information on somebody's coatings may not always be accurate. For instance oxygen depriving pigments are made up of aluminum flake, matacious iron oxide and Mica. When you substitute pigment you are no longer airtight. I watched people put one coat of black moisture cured their chassis have it peal off a year later.

In the future epoxy primers will be infused with zinc flake along with zinc powder. This zinc flake will be used to cut off the oxygen. That is in the not to far in the distant future.

When you use a quality metal prep it'll dissolve the rust, neutralize the rust in the pores steel that are not apparent to the naked eye. It will leave a layer of zinc to combat further corrosion. When you prime it with the Permanent rust sealer there's nothing more humanly possible you can do to prevent the rust from returning