smog laws are for one thing only!! Removal!!

[Johnny05]

In Texas you could get your car/truck registered as an antique vehicle and that would (used to?) exempt state inspections but it limits how/when you can use the vehicle. There is also a "classic" registraton but I'm not sure if it allows any exemptions.

[flip66]

striker

You should be fine I live in Dallas County, tough laws here, I have a 69 all they do is safety test. In Texas any truck 25 years are older they only do the safety inspection on. Legally you have to meet the test of the year of the motor but I have yet to see a station that checks the cast numbers on the block. If you have an 80 or newer motor an A$$ could give you a hard time. I did one time run into a guy that would not pass me because I had an open air breather. I just went down the road to the next station and they past me. The last 2 times the have not even opened the hood.

[Richard Dobson]

Don't laugh to hard 67ChevyRedneck, from what I have read in the weekly wiper here "Big Brother" has been sniffing to air lately and don"t like what he's been smelling.

[stepside454]

we have IM240 test here & there is a strong support to do away with it , hopefully it happens. Until this year, all vehicles under 1 ton 1971 & newer were required to pass smog test, they recently changed it to a rolling 26 year deal thankfully. My 75 c-15 passed smog without anyproblems with headers & open air cleaner, they originally tried to flunk me for no cats. I argued & said it never had cats...finally after 10 minutes the manager of the station came out & said I was right..all I need is a clean test & PCV...wich I have. John

[Longhorn Man]

Tim, where did you get the info of dropping the cat on a new engine into old vehicle?
This goes against every thing I have read in the last 15 years on smog laws, and alot of the stuff read came out of socal.
Heat shields are easier to install, and instal properly, than the rest of the package.

research says that 60% of the vehicle emissions are created by 10% of the vehicles (the old ones)

This al depends on who's research you are looking at.
Some interesting FACTS...
With the exception of Southern Cali, just about al the citys with major smog problems are industrial citys. huston is quickly catching up with Cali as far as polution levels.
The major source of automotive polution comes from the vehicles between 8 years old and 20 years old. All the 200,000 mile old cars running with the check engine light on...we refer to them as work cars, or beaters.
No state can require you to update your vehicle onless you are updating it out of desire.
Meaning, the state can not tell all of us to install cats...but, if we install a newer vehicle, we must maintian the certification on the new engione, which includes ALL the smog equipment.
California has come up with a way to decrease the use of older vehicles, and they are now putting it in effect, the parts to maintain older vehicles will be harder and harder to find. I'm not sure HOW they went about it, but they are cutting off the supply of old auto parts, as to force you to junk your old car.
Since about 90 or so, So Cal has been permitting the oil companies to crush cars for smog credits.
Chevron started it all when they were found in violation of refinery emission. They asked the state if they could purchase old "gross poluters' and crush them, therefor removing them from the road perminantly, and after crushing x number of cars, could defer the correction of there own refinery smog issues. The state loved it and that started the first real crusher program in the U.S. They were buying cars for about 700 bucks, (775 IIRC) and the state required stipulations was that it had to be a running, driving licensed car in order to count towards smog credits. I'll give Chevron a little credit here, they would offer all the cars up for sale for the same price they were purchased for, this way, no true collector cars would fall through the cracks. The part that really got me ticked on this, car Craft...or maybe Hot Rod...purchased a yellow 68 camaro powered by a 250 inline and an automatic tranny. They bought it, gassed it up, and went straight to a smog station, where the car not only passed, but was cleaner than a mid 70's car was required to be.
Gross Poluter?
I personally stopped buying Chevron fuel when I read this. Then, later...in 1999, I wrote a letter to David Frieburger, editor of car craft becouse they always used the chevron fuel in there dyno sessions. He personally responded informing me that all the oil companies in xo cal were doing this now, and they can't boycott all gasoline providers. (dave is the closest thing to an idol to me..and I printed and saved that e-mail...still have it in my desk)
i'm rambling...
again.

[Tim240Z]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Tim, where did you get the info of dropping the cat on a new engine into old vehicle?
This goes against every thing I have read in the last 15 years on smog laws, and alot of the stuff read came out of socal.
Heat shields are easier to install, and instal properly, than the rest of the package.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage....s-Jan_1994.htm

The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment

Since CATs are considered Chassis equipment, not engine equipment, if the host chassis did not have them, then they are not required. I will call BAR in the morning to confirm, but I am almost completely certain that is correct.....

Tim

[Dano69c10]

California lost its 30 year exemption rule at the start of this year. Now only vehicles 75 and older are exempt. This legislation passed so easily that the smog nuts now want to require all vehicles to be retrofitted with modern emissions equipment.

California hates vintage cars and trucks. Most parking lots are made for small newer compacts and the stop lights are set for newer brake systems, seems like I have to lock 'em up sometimes to stop in time. Where I live, if you leave a classic parked on the street the policia will ticket it as an abandoned vehicle and have it towed away. This happened to me, I had my '68 chevelle and '69 c-10 (which are both fugly) parked in front of my house ( I was on vacation from work) and the policia ticketed them as abandoned vehicles and said that if they didn't show a change in mileage when they came back that they would be towed. Good thing I was home. So instead of letting them sit and not pollute, I have to make sure I drive them around the block every other day or so.

Some Cali legislators want to do away with pick-a-part type junkyards and places that sell repro parts for older cars. Some older parts and older emissions equipment are now nearly impossible to find.

There is also talk on charging people for how many miles they drive per year. Of course this can't be done with older vehicles so maybe that's why they want to retrofit older vehicles. All in all its big brother wanting to get into our lives.

Our Guv (Ahnold) has implemented a new crusher program that pays you (or any overzealous environmentalist) $1000 for crushing a running pre-1989 vehicle and he wants to give $800 to people who retrofit their older vehicles. There was even an article in some e-rag that showed that environmentalists are scoping e-bay and car ads looking for older cars to crush for cash.

Guess it's time to toss the 250 L-6 for that LT-1 or LS-1.
Or it's time to drop my '69 truck body on a '05 chassis.
Just my $0.02.
Dano

[Longhorn Man]

Tim, did you make the call?

Originally Posted by Tim240Z

Since CATs are considered Chassis equipment, not engine equipment, if the host chassis did not have them, then they are not required. I will call BAR in the morning to confirm, but I am almost completely certain that is correct.....
Tim

[cableguy0]

it seems many people are forgetting a well tuned car will run damn near the same with or without cats pollution wise. cats are for people who dont know what maintenance is the cat cleans up there dirty @ss polluting engine. any well tuned car will pass just fine. big business puts out more emissions than any amount of cars you could ever get in the same area.

[Tim240Z]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Tim, did you make the call?

I tried, but was put on hold for a long time and I was on my cell. I will try again tomorrow.
Tim

[CHEVIBUBBA]

Originally Posted by 86k10

We don't have any inspections here that I'm aware of but I can't help but wonder why we as Americans put up with this bulls**t. Our government is getting way out of control,

if you will read our friendly constitution you'll see the fed. gov. has been WAY out of control for decades!
the constitution spells out specific things government can do.anything not specifically written is forbidden by US. the people!you know; the ones that wrote the damned thing in the first place.
we need to put OUR government as a whole in prison for violating the constitution & put some honest, principled folks in there!

Originally Posted by 86k10

and it's to bad the average citizen doesn't give a damn either.

amen!but wait;you.me.thats two! anyone else?
i can speak for at least a dozen that are fed up & would take action if they felt they weren't alone.
it's up to us!if we expect it to change, we have to change it!

Originally Posted by 86k10

I think it's really sad what this country has turned into,

it got this way because WE let it!

Originally Posted by 86k10

but then it will not be long and it will be all over, I'm sure some of you will understand what I mean by that.

can we afford to wait?
will you let our once great country degrade further into a socialist regime?

[Alexis]

*sniff**sniff*

smell like politics

*listens*

sound like politics

*looks*

must be politics.


Quit while your ahead guys. Leave the politics, long live the revolution, its the adminitration fault, bill clinton left his seeds is monica, and Martha stewart is the true victim here crap out.

[Tim240Z]

A good place to keep your eye on things, regardless of which State of the Union you live in. Remember, as goes California, so the rest of the Nation follows......
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?ID=61834

[CHEVIBUBBA]

yeah, your right.
it's just your country, freedom, future, rights, wellbeing, family, privilages, flag we were discussing.
i forgot.you can't get involved.you have a job, family, truck, home, beer to think about.
sorry to bother you with such minutia.

[Longhorn Man]

You are fairly new here, so i'll tell you why there are negative comments towards posts like that.
About 3 years ago, we had a few members that started posting political stuff here in the general discussion board..it wasn't too bad, most of us kept out of them, and let the few duke it out in the political threads.
Then about 2 years ago, the crap started gettin deep. there was mud slinging, name calling, and general political BS.
So josh (board owner/operator..the HMFIC) started a whole seperate page for political BS...apropreatly names...Plitical BS.
The General discussion pages were back to normal, fun and games, off brand automotive discussions, threads on life and love and what kind of job to look for...ect.
Then the group on the political BS board couldn't keep things under controll, and Josh had to kill it. Ppl started bringing it back here, and everyone else said no way, no how. So now, as soon as a thread gets political, one of us will normally jump in and tell everyone to cool there jets before the thread gets closed. (look for the thread about the pope's death...yes, even in a pope thread) Normally, Josh or the group of ppl workiong with/for josh will close the thread in no time.
Then there will be a thread asking why the original thread was locked...ppl get banned for a day or two for trolling, more ppl start to complain....it just all snow balls into bad ca-ca.
So please, keep the political stuff to a minimum. (or nill even) Everyone will be happier, Josh's hard work will be reduced, and good threads...like the pope passing...or what is or is not legal in the world of emmisions...can continue and we can learn.
Please do not take this personally, it is a policy set before your time on here.
I'm sure you could PM some one about the political stuff, but I can't see it working too well.
Many of us will agree with some of what was said in this thread as far as big brother and over stepping boundrys...however, many ppl don't want to have anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by CHEVIBUBBA

yeah, your right.
it's just your country, freedom, future, rights, wellbeing, family, privilages, flag we were discussing.
i forgot.you can't get involved.you have a job, family, truck, home, beer to think about.
sorry to bother you with such minutia.

[CHEVIBUBBA]

well, fine!!!
i'm leavin!!!!!
i'll just go find a forum for my freedom lovin brothers!
but seriously folks,got it.
can't resist tryin to wake some people up.

[dave3156]

I live right out side of St. Louis in Madison County Illinois and we have Federally mandated exhaust testing. They test from 1968 and up. My 1970 built 350 with performance cam, headers etc. was inspected. It failed the first time. The technician told me that the only thing I could do to it was replace the carb, do a tune up and set the timing. I replaced the carb and it passed easily. On the dyno it had failed on unburnt hydocarbons. The standard was 900. The first time it came in at 1520. After the new Edelbrock 1406 it came in at 720. They never looked under the hood nor did they look under anybody's hood. There are only two counties in this part of Illinois that have testing. Also if you spend $450 in repairs you can get a waiver where you don't have to pass any more tests for two years. Obviously the auto repair places have a hand in making the law!

[SweetandLong68]

Man I am glad that I live in middle (country) TN...Dont have to worry about any of this crap...

But that is what got me buying all my cars that were made before 1972...For 1 they look better For 2 you dont have to mess with all the emissions crap.

lata
CHRIS

[CHEVY & GMC FOREVER]

So what a minute here I am confused, I live in Illinois, Will county to be exact, I haven't been called for emissions yet and don't know if they will call me or write a letter, hell the only bill that they are worried about passin' here is one that outlaws cell phone use for anyone driving anything. I really don't know how it works for emissions here on my 69' cause it was factory built with no CATS, ECM's, or OBDII. So I think that I am in the clear or excempt...................at least I hope, anyone have any links to find out about emissions laws here in Illinois, or any state???

[Tim240Z]

Originally Posted by CHEVY & GMC FOREVER

So what a minute here I am confused, I live in Illinois, Will county to be exact, I haven't been called for emissions yet and don't know if they will call me or write a letter, hell the only bill that they are worried about passin' here is one that outlaws cell phone use for anyone driving anything. I really don't know how it works for emissions here on my 69' cause it was factory built with no CATS, ECM's, or OBDII. So I think that I am in the clear or excempt...................at least I hope, anyone have any links to find out about emissions laws here in Illinois, or any state???

http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/vim/

[rusted75 half ton]

Originally Posted by Russell

So, why is it that my 80 3/4 ton does not have cats on it? It had the factory exhaust setup on it (I asked my grandfather if he ever changed it, which he hadn't) when I bought it....

I do have the HD GVW 3/4 ton, is that what made the difference?

I wonder if Canadian laws are different,growing up in Manitoba I never heard of emmision laws,mostly lived in rural areas though where half the traffic was combines and old grain trucks,they did start to have safties.It might have changed after I moved.In colorado if your vehicle is over a certain age you can get collector plates(good for five years)and only required to pass a once liftime emisssion test.Of course thats only as long as you own the vehicle.I still think emissions is

[pritch]

The company truck I drive is a F@RD F250, a '99 super duty. I've driven it since it was new. So I don't know if it's new vehicles up to so old or 3/4 ton and bigger trucks in general, but it's registered in one of Utah's testing counties and it is only required to be emmission tested every other year, and saftey inspected on the other years. Maybe 'cause it's a fleet vehicle. I'm just glad my county don't test.


P.S. Can I still refer to Utah state govt. collectivly as 'The Utaliban'?

[Tim240Z]

I had a long conversation with a Technical Advisor at the California Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) regarding some of the finer points of engine swaps. This is what I came up with:

Vehicle family Rule:
Engine must come from a vehicle from the same family, ie. light duty to light duty, medium and heavy duty to same. What surprised me was the family range. Everything from a mini to a 1 ton truck is considered light duty, and engines can be interchanged. Everything greater than 1 ton pickup is considered med/heavy duty and thus cannot be used as a donor into a car.

Catalytic Converters:
CATs are not required to be installed on vehicles that did not come with them installed from the factory.
Kicker: OBDII donor vehicles have post CAT O2 sensors. These may not be disabled in any way. Without the CATs, the PCM will throw a code, thus creating an issue with the conversion. So, although the CATs themselves are not required, if the Donor vehicle is OBDII, then by proxy, they are required.

Misc. Emissions controls:
EVERY piece of emissions package is required from the donor vehicle. That would include fuel tank (to include fuel pressure sensor), evaporative canister and all lines from and to the tank.

Referee inspection:
Pre-75 vehicles (vehicles not requiring smog tests) do not have to be referee certified. However, CHP (or any law enforcement officer, I suppose) can write you an emissions citation, which would need a visit to the referee to sign off to cancel the citation (fixit ticket). Apparently, the State is actively looking at modified vehicles for emissions violations (roadside checkpoints as I mentioned previously)

Well...that should answer about everything.......

[Longhorn Man]

hmmmm, for the best part, that is what I have read/been told/researched...but there are a few things that don't seem right, and even contradict what the other guidlines say there.

Anyways, the morral here, is that if you live in a city that does tail ppe tests, then you need to do alot of research before jumping into any mods...esp ones that are hard to reverse.
If you live in an area that is talking about testing...you need to get involved. While it may well be a lost cause, don't just bend over and take it up the tail pipe, let your ELECTED officials know...personally, If Columbus starts testing...I'm moving. That's it, case closed, end of story. This is the one thing that kept me from goin to cali...and it is still keeping me out of cali....There are a LOT of things that are making me consider So-Cal as home...but I won't live there. There were other citys I looked at, but passed on for this, or simlar reasons.
The larger teh group, the better the effect. As stated before, SEMA is the single largest automotive group, and they do make things happen.

[Tim240Z]

LongHorn,
I wholly agree. Every year there is an effort to smog test the exempt vehicles (I have 3 with transplants). Every year they are defeated, but little things change (like abolishing the 30 year rolling exemption, and replacing it with 75 and older frozen exemption). I believe that there are efforts underway this year again to make another run at it. Hopefully these efforts will fail again, but if not, I will leave the Rebublic of California.
What doesn't make sense to me is that they should be encouraging engine swaps for newer engines, instead of making it difficult.
I have a good mind to draft some legislation and send it to my local State Rep. and see if it flies....