I was bored, so I made a cold start video!

[1972BlueC20]

I'm running a brand new engine :

GM Part # 19210008 - 350 / 330 HP

Exhaust : Dual 2 chamber flowmasters dumped before the axle.
Stock ramhorn exhaust manifolds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inld6rvyC2g

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I'm running a brand new engine :

GM Part # 19210008 - 350 / 330 HP

Exhaust : Dual 2 chamber flowmasters dumped before the axle.
Stock ramhorn exhaust manifolds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inld6rvyC2g

How does it run, are you happy? Would you recommend this engine to others?

You are KILLING me here lol!

Let's see a burnout!

[JJR]

Nice truck. What size are your tires?

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

How does it run, are you happy? Would you recommend this engine to others?

You are KILLING me here lol!

Let's see a burnout!

I'm pretty happy with it so far, but honestly I haven't had a whole lot of time with the truck since getting it back from the install. Also, I'm still in the break in period so I'm taking it easy on her.

I had some issues with the shop that did the install. They hooked my vacuum lines up all jacked up and a few other things that really made me doubt their skill level. So far everything seems to be ok now that I've gotten everything routed correctly. Also this engine came with a Holley 670 carb.....the shop that did the install couldn't get it running good with that carb, so I got frustrated and told them to just put my old Edelbrock 1406 that I had on the original engine ......on this engine. So far it's running pretty good.

I still think the carb needs some adjusting and maybe the timing needs some tweaking too....I also have been having a problem with my detent cable since I got the new engine installed. It will not kick down into gear when you floor it at any speed. I even took it to the transmission shop that did my rebuild about 6 months ago.....they said the cable was messed up and they installed a new cable.....they told me it was working and to come pick the truck up......after I picked it up......it still wasn't working.....I called the shop back and they played dumb.....they told me to bring it back but I haven't yet....I've had bad luck with every shop that has worked on this truck.....seems alot of mechanics don't know much about these old trucks....I need to find an old timer who knows what the hell he's doing...

I did however decide to manually shift it one night and let me tell you.....it ran like a raped ape.......it was pretty impressive for a 3/4 ton truck.....I only made a few hard passes since i didn't want to dog on it too bad yet.....I think once I get the detent cable working and get the engine broken in....I think I'll be very happy with this engine!!!

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by jjr

nice truck. What size are your tires?

265/75 r16

[Sicklajoie]

Lookin good!!!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I'm pretty happy with it so far, but honestly I haven't had a whole lot of time with the truck since getting it back from the install. Also, I'm still in the break in period so I'm taking it easy on her.

I had some issues with the shop that did the install. They hooked my vacuum lines up all jacked up and a few other things that really made me doubt their skill level. So far everything seems to be ok now that I've gotten everything routed correctly. Also this engine came with a Holley 670 carb.....the shop that did the install couldn't get it running good with that carb, so I got frustrated and told them to just put my old Edelbrock 1406 that I had on the original engine ......on this engine. So far it's running pretty good.

I still think the carb needs some adjusting and maybe the timing needs some tweaking too....I also have been having a problem with my detent cable since I got the new engine installed. It will not kick down into gear when you floor it at any speed. I even took it to the transmission shop that did my rebuild about 6 months ago.....they said the cable was messed up and they installed a new cable.....they told me it was working and to come pick the truck up......after I picked it up......it still wasn't working.....I called the shop back and they played dumb.....they told me to bring it back but I haven't yet....I've had bad luck with every shop that has worked on this truck.....seems alot of mechanics don't know much about these old trucks....I need to find an old timer who knows what the hell he's doing...

I did however decide to manually shift it one night and let me tell you.....it ran like a raped ape.......it was pretty impressive for a 3/4 ton truck.....I only made a few hard passes since i didn't want to dog on it too bad yet.....I think once I get the detent cable working and get the engine broken in....I think I'll be very happy with this engine!!!

Nothing wrong with the Edelbrock 1406 at all, but the Holley is a $400.00 carb so I would want to either make it work or sell it.

Any hope of using the Holley would require a custom bracket for the detent cable, and I wonder if that's why the shop said "it wouldn't run right". They may have fudged the truth a little on that one. This might help with the Holley:
https://www.holley.com/products/parts/20-121/

Detent cable, hmmm.... If it worked on the 1406 on your old engine, and if it bolts to the carb itself, then it should work. However, if it bolts to the intake, you might want to try another bracket.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/...56#moreDetails
I hope the trans shop gave you back your old cable or at least the new one is identical to the old one so it fit's your 1406.

The geometry gets tricky on 700R4 and 2004R's because the cable also controls line pressure (no modulator valve), but on a T350 you are just looking for a throttle angle at which point the DETENT pressure rises enough to initiate a detent (kick-down, it has modulator valve to control line pressure). Check the cable adjustment, you may need to move the slider farther away from the carb to get it to kick down (see figure but ignore the part that says move slider this way for adjustment that is for factory installations where you floor the throttle to adjust it after it's all the way retracted as it will pull out that way if forced it's just a coincidence that you probably need to go the same way).

One would think this has already been tried, but we cannot take anything for granted.

If this won't do it, and you think it needs to move in this direction, try this. Check out the inner cable itself, the part that moves, and see if there is slack in it if it does not have resistance in the cable when the throttle is open. You might be able to get a cable stop to effectively shorten it but only if the bracket that holds the cable was moved closer to the carb. For temporary you can take some pliers and install some lead fishing sinkers between the factory cable stop to see if that moves you in the right direction.

If you have the other type detent cable with a long open slot, you may have problems as the bracket needs to be in the exact correct spot, and you might need to convert to the cable with the plastic end.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Nothing wrong with the Edelbrock 1406 at all, but the Holley is a $400.00 carb so I would want to either make it work or sell it.

Any hope of using the Holley would require a custom bracket for the detent cable, and I wonder if that's why the shop said "it wouldn't run right". They may have fudged the truth a little on that one. This might help with the Holley:
https://www.holley.com/products/parts/20-121/

Detent cable, hmmm.... If it worked on the 1406 on your old engine, and if it bolts to the carb itself, then it should work. However, if it bolts to the intake, you might want to try another bracket.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/...56#moreDetails
I hope the trans shop gave you back your old cable or at least the new one is identical to the old one so it fit's your 1406.

The geometry gets tricky on 700R4 and 2004R's because the cable also controls line pressure (no modulator valve), but on a T350 you are just looking for a throttle angle at which point the DETENT pressure rises enough to initiate a detent (kick-down, it has modulator valve to control line pressure). Check the cable adjustment, you may need to move the slider farther away from the carb to get it to kick down (see figure but ignore the part that says move slider this way for adjustment that is for factory installations where you floor the throttle to adjust it after it's all the way retracted as it will pull out that way if forced it's just a coincidence that you probably need to go the same way).

One would think this has already been tried, but we cannot take anything for granted.

If this won't do it, and you think it needs to move in this direction, try this. Check out the inner cable itself, the part that moves, and see if there is slack in it if it does not have resistance in the cable when the throttle is open. You might be able to get a cable stop to effectively shorten it but only if the bracket that holds the cable was moved closer to the carb. For temporary you can take some pliers and install some lead fishing sinkers between the factory cable stop to see if that moves you in the right direction.

If you have the other type detent cable with a long open slot, you may have problems as the bracket needs to be in the exact correct spot, and you might need to convert to the cable with the plastic end.

Thanks for all the info man!

I have the TH350.

I'll get a picture tomorrow of the way everything is hooked up and see if you have any comments. I'm hoping that maybe the cable isn't fully extending at WOT....so if this is the case then I just have to move the bracket further back towards the firewall....and or make more adjustment on the cable itself.

The weather is crappy here and it's getting dark, so I'll try to post some pics tomorrow!

[sleepertruck72]

Nice truck and video ,, she sounds nice I have that engine in my C20 also... It scoots around just nice

[Kenfuzed]

Tagging along and interested how this turns out since I just installed practically the identical engine -- 350/228hp w/TH350 trans, Edelbrock 1406, 2.5 ramhorns into 2.25 duals. Only difference is mine is sitting in a 66 C10 and the build was from P.E.R. instead of GM.

My kick down cable is the long open slot style and I had to modify the bracket from Jegs to get the cable tight when the throttle is fully open.

Also, curious what electric fuel pump you are running and if you are using a regulator.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Kenfuzed

Tagging along and interested how this turns out since I just installed practically the identical engine -- 350/228hp w/TH350 trans, Edelbrock 1406, 2.5 ramhorns into 2.25 duals. Only difference is mine is sitting in a 66 C10 and the build was from P.E.R. instead of GM.

My kick down cable is the long open slot style and I had to modify the bracket from Jegs to get the cable tight when the throttle is fully open.

Also, curious what electric fuel pump you are running and if you are using a regulator.

I'm running a edelbrock mechanical fuel pump part # 1721, no regulator......I'm getting a constant 6-6.5 PSI......I do have a regulator that I might eventually install....I am having some issues with hot start......I might try to adjust my floats but if that doesn't work I might try the regulator and possibly a spacer plate

[67 chevelle]

I had a 330 horse HO motor in my 68 camaro that I just sold ,, solid solid motor ,,, what GM does not tell you is the HO motor is equivalent to the old zz4 ,, if not more powerfull thanks to the vortec heads ,,, the zz4s had junk lt4 heads ,,,, the HO's were rated with a 600 carb ,, thats why the lower top end number ,,, the new zz5's are a different animal ,,, they changed the heads to fastburns and picked up 50 hp ,,, moral of the story 350 HO is an excelent motor ,,, power ,,, mileage ,,, and clean running ,,, good for towing also ,, from the broad torque range ,,, IMO the HO is a better engine than the more expensive zz4 was ,,, if you tow heavy loads ,, the 383 high torque is a monster

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I'm running a edelbrock mechanical fuel pump part # 1721, no regulator......I'm getting a constant 6-6.5 PSI......I do have a regulator that I might eventually install....I am having some issues with hot start......I might try to adjust my floats but if that doesn't work I might try the regulator and possibly a spacer plate

On your hot start issue, does it turn over fine but just won't start or does it turn over slow? Do you have a thick gasket or phenolic spacer between the carb and the intake? On a new engine I think the internal temperatures are a little higher and it might be boiling the gas in the float bowls after you turn it off. I wouldn't think you would be having heat soak problems with the rams horn manifolds unless the exhaust pipe is laying against the starter.

LockDoc

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

On your hot start issue, does it turn over fine but just won't start or does it turn over slow? Do you have a thick gasket or phenolic spacer between the carb and the intake? On a new engine I think the internal temperatures are a little higher and it might be boiling the gas in the float bowls after you turn it off. I wouldn't think you would be having heat soak problems with the rams horn manifolds unless the exhaust pipe is laying against the starter.

LockDoc

no it turns over fine.....just seems a bit flooded upon restart, you can even smell gas after it fires off.....it just take 3-5 seconds to fire up versus cranking right up normally when cold or if it hasn't had a chance to sit.

My intake is a spreadbore, so I have the spreadbore to squarebore adapter plate....no phenolic or thick gasket at this point...just the regular gaskets.

[NVBUYER]

1972BlueC20,

LockDoc hit it on the head. I have the same exact motor with Ram Horns. I installed a Holley Heat Shield with the gaskets it came with and have completely rid myself of hot start issues, and it'll install in under 15 minutes. The fuel is most likely boiling/percolating out of the bowls when you stop the engine.

Here it is at Summit Racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts...8-70/overview/

I'll also note that I'm using the 670 Holley Street Avenger that came with it and it runs like a dream.


Good luck.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Thanks for all the info man!

I have the TH350.

I'll get a picture tomorrow of the way everything is hooked up and see if you have any comments. I'm hoping that maybe the cable isn't fully extending at WOT....so if this is the case then I just have to move the bracket further back towards the firewall....and or make more adjustment on the cable itself.

The weather is crappy here and it's getting dark, so I'll try to post some pics tomorrow!

the th350 should be pretty easy, you shlould be able to feel in the pedal when you start pulling the detent. if it still isn't working, you may need to pull the trans pan and make sure it didn't come unhooked.

[1972BlueC20]

Guys thanks so much for all the input.....I finally fixed my kickdown issue last night!!

The shop that did my engine swap, went and bought the generic spectre throttle / kickdown bracket....I figured out that as suspected the cable wasn't fully extending out at WOT.....I bent my original kickdown bracket from the original engine to fit on the bolts of my intake at the very rear of the intake near the firewall....my new engine has vortec heads so the bolts are straight in and spaced different. I got it to work and then hooked everything back up....

WOW! This engine is quite gnarly!!

It kicks down even up to 75 MPH.....it's insane!!!

I think i'm going to be very happy with this engine!!

[BrianG]

Great Thread! Good info on the motor, good info on getting it and the trans to run correctly. These are the threads that make this forum so great!

[slikside]

sub'd.

[1972BlueC20]

ok guys, so my latest issue is I'm getting a little intermittent slight bogging / power loss right at initial WOT....it goes away quickly and doesn't do it all the time so I don't think it starving for fuel because way higher into the power and RPM's it's not struggling at all.....what can this be??

The other issue is I'm still having some hot start issues (not related to the starter).....it's flooding.....I looked in the bowls after it's sat and there is no percolation or dripping....my guess is heat.....I know Holley makes a heatshield but I have a Edelbrock square bore # 1406.....is there a heat shield I can use or should I just get a 1" phenolic spacer?

And finally one more thing.....the transmission shop got all my shift points great at normal driving....but at wide open throttle the 2nd to 3rd shift comes too early....it's fine at light to moderate throttle....only shifts early at hard WOT.....is there a way to adjust this without changing the 1-2 shift points....I like where the 1-2 is and don't want to mess with that part...


Any help is appreciated....I've almost finally got my truck completely sorted thanks to all your help

[no1udknow]

I don't know about tranny adjusting, but as far as the WOT lag, it could be jetting, or timing sounds like. Is it under hard acceleration at WOT, or slowly getting to WOT. If it bogs when you slam on the gas, you need to check your power valve circuit in the carb.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

And finally one more thing.....the transmission shop got all my shift points great at normal driving....but at wide open throttle the 2nd to 3rd shift comes too early....it's fine at light to moderate throttle....only shifts early at hard WOT.....is there a way to adjust this without changing the 1-2 shift points....I like where the 1-2 is and don't want to mess with that part...


Any help is appreciated....I've almost finally got my truck completely sorted thanks to all your help

Read this article, or get chummy with the transmission guy and get him to do it.
"There are two sets of rotating weights in the governor. The heavier, outer weights act at low vehicle speed and the lighter inner weights take over at higher speeds, especially during full throttle conditions. Centrifugal force acting upon the weights controls the opening and closing of the governor valve itself. The valve controls governor pressure delivery, which in turn controls upshifts".
http://www.dragracingonline.com/tech...vi_9-bm-1.html

Or if you are game remove the gov cover and gov, get a hemostat (fine needle nose easy to manipulate) of the smaller variety and install a weaker gov spring to the inner weights only. You may have to repeat to get it where you want it. If your gov cover has a clip good if it don't get one so you don't have to silicone it on and pound it off every time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Governor-Cov...-/201244248113

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

ok guys, so my latest issue is I'm getting a little intermittent slight bogging / power loss right at initial WOT....it goes away quickly and doesn't do it all the time so I don't think it starving for fuel because way higher into the power and RPM's it's not struggling at all.....what can this be??

Any help is appreciated....I've almost finally got my truck completely sorted thanks to all your help

Like no1udknow said, probably primary jets or power valve springs but also a possibility the accelerator pump could be weak. The 1406 has three holes for the accelerator pump rod, the closer to the inside it's hooked the more volume the pump will provide.

Does it take a long time to run right warming up?

Check the total timing and let us know what that is and where the base timing falls.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

The other issue is I'm still having some hot start issues (not related to the starter).....it's flooding.....I looked in the bowls after it's sat and there is no percolation or dripping....my guess is heat.....I know Holley makes a heatshield but I have a Edelbrock square bore # 1406.....is there a heat shield I can use or should I just get a 1" phenolic spacer?

Any help is appreciated....I've almost finally got my truck completely sorted thanks to all your help

By bowls, do you mean the intake manifold?

In the above statement, I don't see anything that makes me think a phenolic spacer will help, although it will not hurt. Also you said it's not starter related so I assume cranking speed is OK.

The deluxe engine came with an HEI, right? Did you old engine have points?
What gauge is the wire going to the HEI, it's not the old wire for the points is it (resister wire)? What you describe fits what happens with that problem.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

By bowls, do you mean the intake manifold?

In the above statement, I don't see anything that makes me think a phenolic spacer will help, although it will not hurt. Also you said it's not starter related so I assume cranking speed is OK.

The deluxe engine came with an HEI, right? Did you old engine have points?
What gauge is the wire going to the HEI, it's not the old wire for the points is it (resister wire)? What you describe fits what happens with that problem.

Yes the engine came with the HEI.....I have a suspicion that they may have hooked it up wrong wiring wise but I really don't know...how can I check?

The shop that did the install did it.....if the way they hooked up the vacuum lines originally are any indicator then who knows....lets just say I wasn't completely happy with their job in some areas...

I'm getting really bad gas mileage too....like 7 MPG....however the instructions for this engine recommend this on the timing :

"Set spark timing at 32º before top dead center (BTDC) at 4000 RPM with the vacuum advance line to the
distributor disconnected and plugged. This setting will produce 32º of total advance at wide open throttle
(WOT). The HEI vacuum advance canister should remain disconnected. This engine is designed to
operate using only the internal centrifugal advance to achieve the correct timing curve."

That is what they said they set it at....

It's currently showing 12 degrees BTDC at idle....with the vacuum advance plugged.


The bog only happens sometimes, and it just right when you floor it as it's kicking in....once it kicks in it's fine....no bogging or struggling after that...