New Freon

[nroden]

The post about Aftermarket AC reminded me of a question I wanted to ask. I was wanting to change my AC over to the new stuff. Do I just add the new stuff in... take the old out and ad the new....... or do I have to change any of the equipment

[68 Stepside]

I think you take the old stuff out, and buy a conversion kit for your vehicle, I'm not 100% positive, but someoone told me they got their conversion kit at K-Mart I think it just comes with a new oil charge can, and the refrigerant. I think you'll spend maybe 50 bucks to do it completely, but it's money well spent IMHO.

TJ

[Longhorn Man]

While they sell cits like that, it is a good idea to chinge out the evaporater and dryer (I think those were the 2 main items).
I have also been told by our A/C guys at work that the compressors lock up commonly after a retrofit.

[hanssolo]

I know the long-style compressors have a bolt at bottom. Take it off to drain compressor. Blow compressed air thru any tubes you can. The old style oil contaminates the new freon(134).

[RipMeyer]

All you questions can be answerd here CLICK ME

[imaindianoutlaw]

I have been useing 414B Trade named Hot Shot! Works Great, no oil change, no hose or seal changes! People are always begging me to do their cars so I bought a 25 pound cylinder!
Anybody who cant find their leaks? Check the compressor shaft!

[imaindianoutlaw]

By the way 134A Sucks!

[RipMeyer]

I bought a case of Duracool and put some if my wifes nissan. It was blowing hot before now it blows 38deg.

After a few failed attempts on my 69 it finally went in correctly and it blows 47deg. I think thats about all you get out of these old compressors.

[ckhd]

I've been told by my friend, the AC expert, that 134 required changing hoses too. He started spouting something about the 134 molicule being smaller than 12 and needing a specially lined hose.

[nroden]

I will have my brother do it. I forgot about him.. surely he knows all about it. He does commercial air-conditioning, heating, refridgeration for Taber-Chalmers. They give him a van and he works in hotel, restraunts, ect. on top of roofs and big rooms on big units.

[jku72]

I dont know, I got sick of no A/c and just went to wally world and bought the 28 dollar retrofit. Just jammed it in there, and now I have cold air. Dont know anything about long term, but right now it is great. Carpe diem.

[fishuntr]

I think i agree with jku72; just get the stuff and do it. You need the kit for the connectors and the can tap. None of the above posts are actually wrong; to do it professionally they are correct.
What changed my mind was my son who, manages a large 60+ trucj fleet. When they first started changing trucks over, they went the whole route; seals, hoses, dryers etc. Cost several hundred dollars per truck. Then they tried just changing out the refrigerant without the pther stuff....no difference in performance, efficiency or long term problems. Cost..just a few bucks.

It is true that the 134 doesn't cool as well as R-12, but thats just the way it is.. If you use the kit and just change it over and your not happy with the results, go back and do a more thorough job. 134 only costs 3 or 4 dollars a can.
JImmy

[68 Suburban]

I know I am not suppose to have it, but I have plenty of R-12 and R-12 oil charge....Shhhh...Don't turn me in

[RipMeyer]

If you dont have your system evacuated and cleaned your in for some trouble. Mixing R12 & R134a makes an acid that will destroy your system. Also you need barrier hoses to keep from charging every year as the 134 will leak thru the stock R12 hoses.

[hanssolo]

I would like to hear more about 414b and Duracool. I'm not familiar with these. Also, an A/C guy gave me a tip. He put a Ford orifice tube in my system. Its same size and he said its a tiny bit smaller hole so gas expands faster causing colder temp. Anyone ever hear of that? And please, no jokes....hee hee.

[imaindianoutlaw]

Smaller orriface will/could starve your evaporator if it is too small! A starved coil will have a lower suction pressure,higher superheat, and low efficiencency! The gas could be colder and the beginning of the coil but remember it needs to be cold through the entire lenght of it! Once it flashes after the orriface the liquid will dissapate and may not make it through the coil!

R12 and R134A mixed will not turn to an acid! Mixing refrigerant is illeagle, and is considered contaminated and needs to be incinerated! 134A requires the use of POLY ESTER OIL which when water/moisture is within the system can change to an acid. This can happen with refrigeration leaks and not evacuating the system with a vacuum pump before charging.

The hose changes are for the oil, which is different and will eat up the seals and hose linings!

414B and other refrigerants which are out on the market to replace R12 and use MINERAL OIL should not require hose and seal replacement!

Another note is that these replacement refrigerants are not charged the same as r12. Most will take less refrigerant and will have a higher discharge pressure!

[Vince M]

While people might be using Duracool and HotShot and other trade names..the only one approved for automotive use is r134a. Many of the these contain propane which is flammable and therefore not recommended for automotive use. r134a is the only gas being used by all car manufacturers.
Your system can be converted to an orifice tube system like most of the newer generation cars.
Technically new hoses should be used when converting because the molecules are actually smaller but many people have converted without changing to the newer style barrier hoses, so if it were my money I would try it first without new hoses.
To do the conversion properly a new dryer should be purchased since the old desecant is not comatible with the new oil.
The O-rings should be changed on all the joints since they also are not compatible with the new oil.
Compressed air should not be used to blow out an A/C system since it contains water and this is the most detrimental thing to an A/C system. This is why you evacuate a system under high vacuum..it is to boil out all the water.
Hope this helps...

[hanssolo]

Thanx guys. I have a new universal double hose connected to the long style compressor, a 1987 dryer and evaporator and a used condensor. I put these in when I converted to 134. The evaporator is shorter than the original and has foam to block the gap. You think a Ford orifice might be bad still for this? A weird combo but cheap and works.

[RipMeyer]

R134a and mineral oil won’t mix. If you recharge a R12 system with R134a and don’t add a compatible lubricant, the compressor will fail.

[Fast68Chevy]

whats this orifice thing do and where is it ?? http://www.acsource.com/cgi-bin/Soft...759+1026049868

[Stano]

Well right or wrong the shop I work at and have worked at for 5 years has done the conversions on many cars and trucks using the retrofit kits like at wal mart or o reillys. In those 5 years we have had one vehicle come back cause of a leak and that was a loose line. All we do is reclaim the r12 and oil and recharge with the ester oil and 134a. Even on our free loner cars the shop owns we did the same way and still blowing cold air. So I guess if it works do it. Heck I wish I could afford air for the 67 meanwhile its 2-95's and one bada$$lookin truck. LOL

[hanssolo]

randy- good site. I looked at the "smart VOV" tube they have. Looks interesting!

[jones]

Originally posted by Vince M
While people might be using Duracool and HotShot and other trade names..the only one approved for automotive use is r134a. Many of the these contain propane which is flammable and therefore not recommended for automotive use. r134a is the only gas being used by all car manufacturers.

from the DURACOOL website...
"I have been led to believe that R134A; the refrigerant that has been use widely in new car production since 1994 in the USA is NON-FLAMMABLE?
This is FALSE! The auto ignition rating for R134A is 1328 (F) degrees. DURACOOL 12a has a higher auto ignition rating of 1635 (F) degrees. All refrigerants should be considered flammable when mixed with oil or lubricant which is necessary in any installation.
The chemical companies touted this when they introduced HFC-R134A on the general public in the early 1990's but this is not true. The MSDS information for HFC-R134A is available within this site. You can form you own conclusions as to why HFC-R134A was ever approved for mass automobile production in the USA.
R134A is combustible also. This means that under certain conditions it can have a violent reaction (ignite or explode) without an external ingition source. This is also posted in the HFC-R134A MSDS.
To also help with your comparison of automotive products that you use. Most motor oil has a flashpoint of the general temperature range of 400 (F) degrees."

[jones]

I just post the above quote because I'm awaiting my first case of duracool and am hoping not to EXPLODE when I charge my system with it. ;-0

if anyone has some other info regarding HC gasses and why I shouldn't use them I'm listening.

[hanssolo]

A mechanic told me they won't work on anything but pure 12 or 134 system cause other coolants(propane?) damaged their recycler. I can't verify this...just what he told me.