Adding 230v to my garage

[SigFTW]

I want to move up to a two stage compressor (12+) CFM and welder so I would like to install a 230v line in my garage.

Looking at my electrical panel I don't have any slots left. I do have the electric dryer breaker I could use, we have gas.

So my questions are:
- Can I piggy back off of the dryer breaker (30amp)?
- Or install slim (thin) type breakers?

I don't know much about thin breakers so that's why I can asking.

I'll have to run a line in the round to my garage because it's a detached. So I want to do all the prep work before I call an electrician to hook up the wires.

[ScottG]

I have a detached garage as well. When we replaced the 60 year old breaker box, we also replaced the drop to the garage, and added a panel in the garage. Ran a drop from a 50 amp breaker in the main panel, with 220 to the garage. Used the same type cable as the drop from the pole to the main panel at the house. I stupidly didn't run it underground when I had the chance, so you might want to do that, if it's possible.

[SigFTW]

I figured out more about what I have.

There is a 12/3 wire already running to the garage on a 120/240v 20 amp breaker. It terminates at a single plug and then runs back to the house to finish the circuit. The plug was a GFI until I replaced it with a standard one because it would keep tripping on a non defrost freezer.

The set up will allow be to use the 12/3 wire to hook up a 240v 20 or 25amp breaker. However, I still have the 115v that runs back the house to finish the circuit.

So I was thinking that I could install a sub panel in the garage and then set it up for 240 and 115, if it's possible. Not sure if the 12/3 will allow me to do this.

I have a call into a family member that is an electrician, (unfortunately he lives out of state) to see if this is an option.

So much to learn and not a lot of clear info on the net. Until I fix this issue I cannot proceed with a new compressor and welder needed for some body work.

[jfortvalley]

install sub panel you need to up the wire size for sure for the sub panel need to figure how many amps youre going to pull at one time and go from there to figure line size

[72gmcshorty]

how far from the panel is your garage? Is the 12/3 in a pipe buried underground? And you are need 120v/240v. You might be able to use the 30a dryer breaker depending on the amperage of the compressor and welder. You will most likely not be able to run both off the same breaker...

[SigFTW]

The wire come into the garage from the walkway cover, The electric box is about 60 feet away.
I will only run one tool at a time.

The Puma 3hp from Northern Tools is the compresser am looking at buying and the Hobart 115v welder.

[pritch]

I have kinda the same situation. My panel is full, also, so when I built my shop, I replaced the 30 amp dryer breaker with a 60 amp that is more or less the main breaker for the shop. I have a sub panel in the shop for the various lighting and outlets and a 30 for my compressor. I never come close to maxing anything out, so I'm not to worried.

[Dustytrix]

12-3 is not going to work, if I understand correctly the 12-3 goes to garage to power up an outlet plug and then continues to power more at your house? One option would be take out the 30amp double pole that fed the dryer replace it with 50amp double pole and run 6-3 to your shop for the air and welder. But we really don't know how many amps the welder or compressor uses, that will determine the larger wire and breaker size.

[SigFTW]

Originally Posted by Dustytrix

12-3 is not going to work, if I understand correctly the 12-3 goes to garage to power up an outlet plug and then continues to power more at your house? One option would be take out the 30amp double pole that fed the dryer replace it with 50amp double pole and run 6-3 to your shop for the air and welder. But we really don't know how many amps the welder or compressor uses, that will determine the larger wire and breaker size.

My uncle who is an electrician came in to town to visit, while he was here I had him look at what I needed to do to supply 240v power to the garage.

He confirmed what you and other said. It requires running a new line, which I was trying to avoid.

I can run a sub panel off the dryer breaker, up the dryer breaker slot to 80 amps, use 4 gauge (80amps) to the sub-panel (mount right next to the main breaker) then run the dryer line to the sub-panel to it's own breaker (just in case it's ever needed). Use the sub-panel to mount a 240/30amp breaker, run 10 gauge (30amps) dedicated line for the compressor. Also mount a 115/30 breaker (I'll verify what the Hobart Handler 140 requires) and run separate 10 or 12gauge wire.

That will give two dedicated lines to each tool.

[Dustytrix]

I agree with your uncle, you will be glad you added the sub-panel we never know what we might add in the future.

[SigFTW]

After all the research and talking with two electricians I am getting close to installing the 240v. Just working on the planning phase, the digging is going to be the hardest part.

Once we get started I'll post the info and pics for anyone that has a detached garage and wants to add 240v.

Everything is starting to come together and a new compressor and welder will allow be to continue my 1979 C10 mod/rebuild.

[ScottG]

I rented a trencher when I did my sprinklers. It was only about 40 bucks for the day. Well worth it, and I didn't have to break my back digging for 2 days...

[SigFTW]

Originally Posted by ScottG

I rented a trencher when I did my sprinklers. It was only about 40 bucks for the day. Well worth it, and I didn't have to break my back digging for 2 days...

Good ideal, I'll check and see if Lowe's rents one and their rental area. Right now would be the time to dig by hand because it just rained and the ground is very soft.

[Sub-versive]

Originally Posted by SigFTW

My uncle who is an electrician came in to town to visit, while he was here I had him look at what I needed to do to supply 240v power to the garage.

He confirmed what you and other said. It requires running a new line, which I was trying to avoid.

I can run a sub panel off the dryer breaker, up the dryer breaker slot to 80 amps, use 4 gauge (80amps) to the sub-panel (mount right next to the main breaker) then run the dryer line to the sub-panel to it's own breaker (just in case it's ever needed). Use the sub-panel to mount a 240/30amp breaker, run 10 gauge (30amps) dedicated line for the compressor. Also mount a 115/30 breaker (I'll verify what the Hobart Handler 140 requires) and run separate 10 or 12gauge wire.

That will give two dedicated lines to each tool.

Yes. Do it right! I hate to see or hear about bad wiring jobs, and/or the destruction they cause.
And run a four wire conductor to the subpanel. Separate the neutrals and the grounds in the subpanel, all the way back to the main panel.

[PanelDeland]

Don't forget to call for marking of underground services.Usually it's 1800digsafe or something similar.It will save you tons if there's an easement for a phone bundle or cable,gas line or something.

[midniteblues]

I just did this two weeks ago myself, my 110 out there is pretty good setup but lacking the 220 really put a damper on things.

i've had my 60 gal compressor out there for a few years an never had the $ too get it hooked up.then at the end of last summer at a yard sale i stumbled
across a HELL of a deal...200' of 8/3 get this...for $20 i knew then it was on for this spring.

i also threw a water line down in the 2'deep x 80' long trench that i dug. i picked up a free shovel over the winter it has a narrow 4-5" but long blade about 18" long. it worked great about two hours of digging the hardest part was digging the tunnel under the walkway.

its nice too finally have real power

heres a pick of the scar...

now waiting for my grass seed to sprout

[pritch]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

Don't forget to call for marking of underground services.Usually it's 1800digsafe or something similar.It will save you tons if there's an easement for a phone bundle or cable,gas line or something.

The new (ish) National number is 811, FYI

[SigFTW]

Originally Posted by pritch

The new (ish) National number is 811, FYI

Thanks!

[SigFTW]

Meeting with a electrician Saturday to finalize some details. Hope to start digging soon. I have been holding off buying the compressor until I get the power out there.

Going to buy the Puma Belt-Drive Stationary Vertical Air Compressor — 60-Gallon Vertical, 3 HP, 12 CFM. I think this one will meet all my needs for a great price.

[SigFTW]

Got everything squared away and dug the trench, will lay the wire and conduit today.

I'll post some pics and how to for anyone that want to ad a sub-panel.

[72gmcshorty]

i hope you are going to lay the pvc conduit and pull the wire....not just lay wire in the hole...

[pritch]

I would run several spare conduits for future needs. You may someday want to run a phone or cable tv or even a doorbell from your house.

[WadmalawJoe]

Originally Posted by pritch

I would run several spare conduits for future needs. You may someday want to run a phone or cable tv or even a doorbell from your house.

X2
and run a string thru it for pulling future wires/cables

[SigFTW]

I was able to dig the trench about 100' long, ground was soft from previous rain. Started laying the wire, 8/3 and schedule 80 pipe, I used 1" schedule 80 because its stronger than PVC.

I pulled a piece of pipe on the wire at a time, worked very will like putting a puzzle together. It would have been very hard to pull the wire through after fitting the pipe.

Mounted and wired the panel, went with a 4 circuit panel, one 30 amp breaker for the welder and one 20 amp for the compressor.





The garage panel is almost compete, just have the grounding rod to install then run the 240 lines to the equipment.

On the main breaker I needed to make room for a 50amp breaker, that will protect and supply 240v to the sub-panel. one suggestion my electrician friend offered is to use piggy back breakers. Instal two piggy back breakers and that will free up two poles for the 50amp.



If the weather hold out I hope to have everything button up today!

[SigFTW]

240v power is on in my garage, it took some time to compile all the information and about $460 in material. Labor was me so not cost there.

Thanks for the help guys.