55.2-59 Tire fender mockup mustang ii

[Missyblue]

So excited! Fender and tire mockup today before final welding front end. Seems to be centered to my liking best we can tell without engine and all that jazz haha. My centerline was 28.5 but I moved it forward to 27.5 because I prefer forward to too far back. It's hard to speculate without engine and everything but feel like this is decent. Almost could be more forward haha?

[joedoh]

put as much of the front together as you can, it may change the look when the core support and other parts are in place. looks good so far!

truth be told I prefer further back than forward too!

[dsraven]

since lower control arm should be level to ground just ensure that is good, side to side and fore to aft, with the rake angle you decided on. also sorta mock up the camber angle before the welder comes out. there is a caster angle to figure too, and more caster is what a lot of guys do because it helps with the gm pump and the ford rack pressure issue whick tends to make the steering a bit jumpy or too easy. increased caster will move the axle back. just a heads up. kinda hard to do without the proper tools though. they look like this
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lng-78260?rrec=true
or this
http://usedhandtools.net/2018/11/blu...ignment-gauge/

here is a gear ratio/rpm calculator if that helps. seems like you have the tire size you want already though.
https://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm

joedoh makes a good point to assemble as much sheet metal as you can. you can use a string line to kinda set the levelling of all the panels by the body lines to ensure the front end is at the right height. that makes a difference too. it seems like your number is a popular dimension to set the axle ahead to. can't be too off, right?

[MiraclePieCo]

Move it 1/64" forward ;-)

[Missyblue]

Thanks for the info. I'll keep researching some things like you mentioned with caster and camber.
My tires arent officially decided. I picked up these at the junkyard was hoping for 225 but they didnt have any so these are the 215/75/15. Will test more when it's on the ground and see if I can maybe fit more tire. But curious about the gear ratio thing when choosing tires.mechanic recommended staying close to a 28 inch tall tire but when figuring what you want do you also choose primary driving speed and how do you figure the sweet spot for rpms? I'll mostly be driving in the 45-55mph range for the roads I take. But will do some longer travels with 65mph stuff.
Thanks for the opinions. Too bad you cant magically put everything together to double check the actual final fit haha

[clegg]

Looks good right there!

[MARTINSR]

Is the back of the frame up in the air too so front and rear are at the attitude they will be when it's on the ground? All that has to be the same for the caster and camber to be correct. The upper control arm angle is a very big part of all that so be sure you have it all correct. Changing it later to align it could move that wheel forward or back.

Brian

[dsraven]

camber also puts wheel closer or further away from fender. you really need to mock it up with clamps or whatever so you can get it close. look online for a "how to" on building your own tool with a level.
here is a blurb on how it is done with a bubble gauge.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ignment-guide/

[dsraven]

I notice that your upper control arm has quite a down slope to the frame. is it like that when the lower control arm is level? maybe have to look into the geometry a little if so. the dimension between upper control arm pivot shaft and lower control arm pivot shaft. otherwise your camber is going to go wonky with a bit of weight added to the truck. the upper arm is shorter than the lower arm so it travels in a shorter arc, that is why the tires lean in at the top when a load is applied. when doing the mock up it is important to have the frame at the rake angle you want when done, levelled side to side, the cross member needs to be levelled side to side using the lower control arm pivot bolts as a guide for your level since the cross member is likely a bit rounded on top (it started life as a flat sheet and was bent to shape then welded then the shafts were drilled and welded in) and not totally in the same plane compared to the pivot shafts, so the level will read incorrectly, and the suspension mocked up at ride height with lower control arms level side to side and fore to aft. upper control arm sometimes has a slight down angle to frame, which helps as weight is applied and tire clearance to fender is a problem, also the upper control arm pivot needs to have a slight down angle at the rear, antidive angle, about 4 deg prolly.I highly recommend a digital level for doing the mock up because the alignment shop will use digital equipment and you want it to drive properly when done.

maybe this will help or you could do some of your own google leg work

https://welderseries.com/tech/tech-s...make-your-own/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ii-deux.70073/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/inde...nt-suspension/

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pd...2%20Heidts.pdf

https://www.hotrodplans.com/wp-conte...on-diagram.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=7828015


post up some pics from all sides if you feel like it, we would like to see what you have going on there.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I notice that your upper control arm has quite a down slope to the frame. is it like that when the lower control arm is level? maybe have to look into the geometry a little if so. the dimension between upper control arm pivot shaft and lower control arm pivot shaft. otherwise your camber is going to go wonky with a bit of weight added to the truck. the upper arm is shorter than the lower arm so it travels in a shorter arc, that is why the tires lean in at the top when a load is applied. when doing the mock up it is important to have the frame at the rake angle you want when done, levelled side to side, the cross member needs to be levelled side to side using the lower control arm pivot bolts as a guide for your level since the cross member is likely a bit rounded on top (it started life as a flat sheet and was bent to shape then welded then the shafts were drilled and welded in) and not totally in the same plane compared to the pivot shafts, so the level will read incorrectly, and the suspension mocked up at ride height with lower control arms level side to side and fore to aft. upper control arm sometimes has a slight down angle to frame, which helps as weight is applied and tire clearance to fender is a problem, also the upper control arm pivot needs to have a slight down angle at the rear, antidive angle, about 4 deg prolly.I highly recommend a digital level for doing the mock up because the alignment shop will use digital equipment and you want it to drive properly when done.

maybe this will help or you could do some of your own google leg work

https://welderseries.com/tech/tech-s...make-your-own/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ii-deux.70073/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/inde...nt-suspension/

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pd...2%20Heidts.pdf

https://www.hotrodplans.com/wp-conte...on-diagram.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=7828015


post up some pics from all sides if you feel like it, we would like to see what you have going on there.

YEP! Ideally you put the mounting points on the frame exactly as they would be on the "donor" car they came from. That way when when you have it aligned (if you aren't doing it) you say very clearly, "align it as if it were a XXXX" instead of letting the tech's brains roll out of his ears like guacamole dip trying to figure out what numbers to use on this "old truck" with a modified suspension.

If you have a donor it's awesome because you can check what it has and then simply make yours the same. When you don't have an example to copy you need to do your homework for sure!


Brian

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I notice that your upper control arm has quite a down slope to the frame. is it like that when the lower control arm is level? maybe have to look into the geometry a little if so. the dimension between upper control arm pivot shaft and lower control arm pivot shaft. otherwise your camber is going to go wonky with a bit of weight added to the truck. the upper arm is shorter than the lower arm so it travels in a shorter arc, that is why the tires lean in at the top when a load is applied. when doing the mock up it is important to have the frame at the rake angle you want when done, levelled side to side, the cross member needs to be levelled side to side using the lower control arm pivot bolts as a guide for your level since the cross member is likely a bit rounded on top (it started life as a flat sheet and was bent to shape then welded then the shafts were drilled and welded in) and not totally in the same plane compared to the pivot shafts, so the level will read incorrectly, and the suspension mocked up at ride height with lower control arms level side to side and fore to aft. upper control arm sometimes has a slight down angle to frame, which helps as weight is applied and tire clearance to fender is a problem, also the upper control arm pivot needs to have a slight down angle at the rear, antidive angle, about 4 deg prolly.I highly recommend a digital level for doing the mock up because the alignment shop will use digital equipment and you want it to drive properly when done.

maybe this will help or you could do some of your own google leg work

https://welderseries.com/tech/tech-s...make-your-own/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ii-deux.70073/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/inde...nt-suspension/

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pd...2%20Heidts.pdf

https://www.hotrodplans.com/wp-conte...on-diagram.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=7828015


post up some pics from all sides if you feel like it, we would like to see what you have going on there.

I appreciate the Info and link as always. I will take another picture and ensure the lower control arm is level. We had it high here. When I had it level (I'll attach photo of tire side but have to reset and take a photo of engine side) there was a large gap between tire and fender and so this photo had it up slightly. I wasnt sure how it would sit once everything was added haha. Plus how a larger tire would fit/look.

I can try to take a side photo but dad's shop is small so not sure I can. Rear end is still stock so I jacked it up so the frame was level for installing the mustang ii. But I know I still have variables because my rear end isnt set and flipped yet.

[dsraven]

decide the rake angle you want, set the frame at that angle before putting the MII in. adjust the rear suspension after the front is done so you end up with that ride angle. different springs, blocks, whatever.
get rake angle set, get the frame levelled side to side, then get front cross member levelled up at the new axle centerline. tack it in, assemble the upper mounts in their location and tack them in. mock up the rest of the front end stuff, minus brakes, shocks etc.just the basics. control arms, spindles and hubs. level up the lower control arms so you know the ride height, use some threaded rod to keep them where they need to be and stick a tire on to see if thats the ride height you want. it needs to be the tire size you will run in the end. if you like it, do a quick check on the camber/caster to ensure everything is where you need it and the tires are gonna look good in the wheel openings. if all is good, tack the weld on stuff to the frame. dissassemble the parts and weld in the weld in stuff. you are committed now so you should be all excited and giddy etc. now finish installing all the brackets for shocks, stabilizer bar, brake hoses etc etc. notch the frame for the steering rack tie rods. assemble everything in mock up without torquing it all for final assembly, see if you like it.

[dsraven]

don't forget to take pics and ost (right side up, lol)

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

don't forget to take pics and ost (right side up, lol)

Haha no clue why it did that.

So heres best I can tell till my dad gets back but lower control arm and truck leveled. I cant get back to get whole truck

[dsraven]

Is it blocked up at the take angle you want?
Maybe wanna check the angle of the upper bracket. Seems like a lot of angle there. Maybe that's what the manufacturer built in but mine were at about 4 deg. That looks like more. It's called the antidive angle if you wanna check google.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Is it blocked up at the take angle you want?
Maybe wanna check the angle of the upper bracket. Seems like a lot of angle there. Maybe that's what the manufacturer built in but mine were at about 4 deg. That looks like more. It's called the antidive angle if you wanna check google.

Yes he built in the anti dive into the hats by having the front taller than the cab side is what he said today. He thinks mines looking but but I'll research the top also and check my degrees. Thanks

[dsraven]

Maybe he thought you were going to run a bigger rake angle so the bracket angle on the frame would be more extreme.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Maybe he thought you were going to run a bigger rake angle so the bracket angle on the frame would be more extreme.

I took photos and showed him and he says everything. Looks good to him so hopefully all is well. Waiting for my dad to gt back next week and we will dig deeper into it haha. Thanks again for the links

[dsraven]

you can use a piece of threaded rod between the lower control arm and the upper hat to fine tune the lower control arm "level" angle and also to keep it there when done the fine tuning.
it's really important to have the rake angle figured out and have the frame sitting at that angle when you mock up the cross member and ifs. I noticed the rear wheels have an air gap above them and the front wheels are a little bit tucked in with no air gap above them. not sure if the front end is where you want it and the tire sizes are the same front to rear but just wanted to mention that. if thats the look you like then all good, otherwise you may want to adjust the rake angle before finishing the mock up and welding in the cross member in place.the wrong mock up rake angle affects the wheel alignment for the rest of the truck's life.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you can use a piece of threaded rod between the lower control arm and the upper hat to fine tune the lower control arm "level" angle and also to keep it there when done the fine tuning.
it's really important to have the rake angle figured out and have the frame sitting at that angle when you mock up the cross member and ifs. I noticed the rear wheels have an air gap above them and the front wheels are a little bit tucked in with no air gap above them. not sure if the front end is where you want it and the tire sizes are the same front to rear but just wanted to mention that. if thats the look you like then all good, otherwise you may want to adjust the rake angle before finishing the mock up and welding in the cross member in place.the wrong mock up rake angle affects the wheel alignment for the rest of the truck's life.

I know it doesn't fit here but when I did my Camaro sub frame clip I replaced the shock with threaded rod and simply tightened it up till it was at ride height. LOL Worked like a charm.

Brian