Is there a stigma around using body filler?

[Praxiss454]

I'm a total newb when it comes to any body work, and I'm starting to learn about how to fix up the sheet metal problems w/ my old truck. I've seen some comments here and there that lead me to believe there is a stigma associated with using bondo or similar products while restoring/refurbing their vehicles. Is that true? If so, what is the reasoning?

I saw an excellent thread here by sevt_chevelle about all metal body repair, but I just don't see how that is workable for every situation, such as long denting scratches or creases on a body line. Maybe it IS workable, and I just have neither the knowledge nor skill to do so.

Also, if anyone can recommend some good How To's for how to tackle different kinds of sheet metal damage, that'd be much appreciated.

[jwilson645]

Generally, you're always going to have a bit of filler. The key is not over using it and keeping the thickness to a minimum. You don't want to go slopping a 1/4" of filler on a panel. Metal work what you can with a hammer & dolly or whatever necessary and get it as straight as possible that way before putting filler on.

[AnotherWs6]

Agreed. Generally no such thing as NOT using filler. But you want to get things as close as possible in metal and then use filler as sparingly as is possible.

Long denting scratches? Not sure what you mean by that exactly but it sounds like something you probably wanted to pull out first if you are thinking about using filler. Do you have an example picture?

[MARTINSR]

In a nutshell, using filler is the chosen repair in 99.99999% of body shops and home hobbists garages across America.

If done properly, it will out last all of us and no one will know it's there unless the car gets stripped.

YES there are people who build cars without filler, they are few and far between but more than you can imagine! Making a Model A fender from scratch out of a sheet of metal is VERY doable by many guys these days!

Check it out. http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php AMAZING stuff being done. There are tools available today that were HISTORY just a few years ago. In the past few decades it has had a hell of a resurgence in the world. About 20 years ago I got a couple of tools for next to nothing because no one even knew what they were (pneumatic planishing hammers made in the 40's) where today there are many new ones on the market.

Seeing a video of someone making a fender from scratch is pretty eye opening! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeXtezrmK3M

Repairing chrome pieces for instance, repairing the grille bars on my AD Chevy pickup for chrome, I had to do it with no filler right? Repairing the stainless mouldings on my 65 Gran Sport, I had to do it without filler, right to polish! So it's done every day on stuff like that.

On fenders and such, it's done all the time. And you would be amazed at how easy it is sometimes.

But again, that being said 99.999999% of cars have filler on them and there is nothing what so ever wrong with it if done properly. And today's fillers like Evercoat Rage Gold and others are light years ahead of the filler from when I started in this industry and even that stuff would still be there! Hell, my 48 Chevy pickup fenders and bed are in my back yard and have been for 20 years painted and primed with lacquer paint and primer which isn't even close to as good as the epoxy and urethanes we now have and those parts look solid as can be and they are covered in filler applied 40 years ago!

Brian

[Praxiss454]

Here is an example. It starts on the door, crosses multiple panels, and ends by the wheel well. I have another example on the other side of the truck, will load more photos later.

How would I go about starting this damage?

[AnotherWs6]

You need to pull the metal out. Uni-spotting would be your best bet, but those machines are expensive. (Google it to see) You basically weld little metal sticks to the damaged area, attach a slide hammer to them and then tap/pull them out. You can't just try to fix that type of damage wit body filler.

[AnotherWs6]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

You need to pull the metal out. Uni-spotting would be your best bet, but those machines are expensive. (Google it to see) You basically weld little metal sticks to the damaged area, attach a slide hammer to them and then tap/pull them out. You can't just try to fix that type of damage wit body filler.

Edit, I stand corrected. It looks like you can get a nice little setup for a very reasonable price.

https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2...29121961074799

[oldarky66]

Habor Freight has the stud welder kit for $100.00. Works very well.

[jimboh247]

Originally Posted by Praxiss454

Here is an example. It starts on the door, crosses multiple panels, and ends by the wheel well. I have another example on the other side of the truck, will load more photos later.

How would I go about starting this damage?

I always look at the price to replace vs. the price to have repaired vs the DIY price.
Price the bed sides to replace with new. Then price the bed sides to have someone else repair. Then figure the tools required etc.
The door I would DIY. The bed sides are such long straight panels, that it might cost less($$ and frustration) to replace with new. Your mileage may vary

[MARTINSR]

The problem is, replacing with reproduction parts isn't like bolting on a new OEM piece. There is much work to do it (typically) and repairing the original can often be faster.

Brian

[AnotherWs6]

^^^^^This is true. However the quarter that the OP is showing us is no easy feat. Body lines, size, damage...... that is going to be a tough fix, probably not a good beginner/starter panel!

[tinydb84]

Many people have hidden bad work with a ton of filler over the years. Add in the massive amount of social media showing perfect metal finishing and welding and you can see why people believe filler is evil.

Filler is fine. If you can metal finish something then by all means do so! Those perfect show cars are going to have filler as well as high build primer.

I would definitely repair that door and bed. If you are going to do it yourself and haven't done it before spend some time reading and a lot more practicing before you start on it.

[Praxiss454]

Originally Posted by tinydb84

I would definitely repair that door and bed. If you are going to do it yourself and haven't done it before spend some time reading and a lot more practicing before you start on it.

I have a few experienced friends I may be able to persuade to help me, but ultimately most of the work is going to be alone. How do you suggest I practice? Maybe I treat the bed panel as my practice piece, knowing that if I totally botch it I can always replace it. The only alternative I can think of is to go buy a chunk of a scrap truck at the junk yard that is really far gone, but I think my wife wouldn't be too happy w/ that since we're already short on work space.

[jwilson645]

I think most of that can be worked out with a hammer and dolly. Do you have anything made of sheet metal? You can always bend it with a hammer, foot, fist, whatever and then practice on that. Get yourself the body hammer kit from Harbor Freight and practice, practice, practice. They aren't the greatest but neither is your skill at this so it doesn't matter that much.

When I started, I was told to look at the damage and figure out where the last spot to bend was. On those areas, that's going to be the ridge around the outside. Place your dolly on the back side of the panel, slightly below the ridge and while putting pressure on the dolly, gently tap the ridge with your hammer. Just work it back and forth on the ridge........tap, tap, move, tap, tap, move. Keep at it and it will work out. As you get that straighter then you can begin moving toward the center.

Go visit www.allmetalshaping.com or www.metalmeet.com and look around, read and ask questions. Those guys are all willing to help and offer advice.

[jwilson645]

Start with the areas at the red arrows.

[tinydb84]

Go pick up a fender from a junk yard or stop by a body shop and ask if they have any junk ones laying around. The harbor freight dollys and hammers will do just fine.

There are a lot of youtube videos. I would watch a few first just to get an idea. Learn the basics (hammer on vs hammer off dolly). The forums Jwilson listed are great but might be a bit advanced.

In general you want to "undo" the damage. Do you body lines first (if there are any) then reassess and work the dents out.

[rickpilgrim]

For the type of damage you have there get behind it with a light body hammer and a dolly/block of wood/ larger head hammer on the opposite side. Your not trying for perfection just getting it to 1/4" of original will be ok before filling but-in order to fill that large of area with plastic filler roughing the metal with a grinder alone will work for awhile but to make it last you will need to drill many 3/16 holes for the filler to mushroom through to help hold it on there, even at 1/4" thickness and also use a short strand fiberglass based filler for all of it except the final touch up coat as it holds up to heat/cold/vibration and shock load much better without cracking problems.
Seeing you don't have a rust problem I'd hunt up a bedside panel and weld it in as a first choice.
Filler works better when repairing rust as you can use aluminum window screen to make a patch area and the filler will go right over and through it giving you a strong larger area patch such as a cab corner or fender rust which will last a long time done correctly.
This is one of our snow plow trucks, it has 3 large cans of short strand fiberglass filler and almost a full roll of window screen. This is a 2013 pic and other than the new dent behind the back wheel(partially repaired area, no cracking at all) it looks the same today.

[tinydb84]

Originally Posted by rickpilgrim

For the type of damage you have there get behind it with a light body hammer and a dolly/block of wood/ larger head hammer on the opposite side. Your not trying for perfection just getting it to 1/4" of original will be ok before filling but-in order to fill that large of area with plastic filler roughing the metal with a grinder alone will work for awhile but to make it last you will need to drill many 3/16 holes for the filler to mushroom through to help hold it on there, even at 1/4" thickness and also use a short strand fiberglass based filler for all of it except the final touch up coat as it holds up to heat/cold/vibration and shock load much better without cracking problems.
Seeing you don't have a rust problem I'd hunt up a bedside panel and weld it in as a first choice.
Filler works better when repairing rust as you can use aluminum window screen to make a patch area and the filler will go right over and through it giving you a strong larger area patch such as a cab corner or fender rust which will last a long time done correctly.
This is one of our snow plow trucks, it has 3 large cans of short strand fiberglass filler and almost a full roll of window screen. This is a 2013 pic and other than the new dent behind the back wheel(partially repaired area, no cracking at all) it looks the same today.

I'm sorry but this is just bad advice.

If the metal work is done properly then you wont need that much filler. Drilling holes will allow moisture in from behind and will be more likely to rust from the backside and cause it to fail.

Filler works best when applying it as directed by the manufacture. Typically this is over bare clean metal sanded to 80 grit but can also be applied over epoxy (check your p sheet). No where will you find a company that says to put their filler over rust, aluminum screen, or anything like that.

[AnotherWs6]

^^^^Agree 100 percent.

[jwilson645]

Originally Posted by rickpilgrim

For the type of damage you have there get behind it with a light body hammer and a dolly/block of wood/ larger head hammer on the opposite side. Your not trying for perfection just getting it to 1/4" of original will be ok before filling but-in order to fill that large of area with plastic filler roughing the metal with a grinder alone will work for awhile but to make it last you will need to drill many 3/16 holes for the filler to mushroom through to help hold it on there, even at 1/4" thickness and also use a short strand fiberglass based filler for all of it except the final touch up coat as it holds up to heat/cold/vibration and shock load much better without cracking problems.
Seeing you don't have a rust problem I'd hunt up a bedside panel and weld it in as a first choice.
Filler works better when repairing rust as you can use aluminum window screen to make a patch area and the filler will go right over and through it giving you a strong larger area patch such as a cab corner or fender rust which will last a long time done correctly.
This is one of our snow plow trucks, it has 3 large cans of short strand fiberglass filler and almost a full roll of window screen. This is a 2013 pic and other than the new dent behind the back wheel(partially repaired area, no cracking at all) it looks the same today.

WOW.....I think we just found the PO of a lot of our trucks.

Sure you can fill rust with bondo but it just keeps rusting and eventually the bondo falls out because the hole has gotten so much bigger. Filling rust with body filler is just a bad idea unless you're a shady car salesman.

[AnotherWs6]

True. There is a reason you're supposed to bring a magnet when you look at a used car.

[Cape Codder]

When I started doing body work 45 years ago the guy teaching me said every hr. spent straitening the metal will save two hours of sanding filler. Do not ever put filler over any type of holes ever. That is slam bam used car repair never meant to last longer than it takes to drive off the lot.

[Praxiss454]

Thanks for the tips guys. I grabbed a set of harbor freight hammers and dollys, gonna try my hand at this bed side and see how it goes.

As I do encounter old filler is it better to leave it in place or try to grind it down to metal? There are a couple of spots that have some cracked filler.

Is there a consensus that a stud welder is better than a screw in dent puller?

[Praxiss454]

Originally Posted by Praxiss454

Thanks for the tips guys. I grabbed a set of harbor freight hammers and dollys, gonna try my hand at this bed side and see how it goes.

As I do encounter old filler is it better to leave it in place or try to grind it down to metal? There are a couple of spots that have some cracked filler.

Is there a consensus that a stud welder is better than a screw in dent puller?

Okay I went outside and tried tapping some out and it is obvious I have absolutely zero clue what the hell I'm doing. So I'm gonna see if I can get a hands-on tutorial from a buddy some time soon.

[AnotherWs6]

You should really get the old filler off. I just don't want to make you jump in too deep too quickly. You don't really wanna leave bare metal exposed for long.