Any experience body (metal) workers to comment?

[davepl]

Long story short, I've got a convertible in paint jail - actually metal jail right now. To the tune of $40,000 and they're not done the trunk yet. Yep, what I said. They've done most of the trunk, some main floor, some jamb work.

Thats not a humble brag, the car was toast and there -was- no trunk to speak of when they started. Further it's a Canadian car which is different than the US cars so there's a lot of fab, you have to start with US pieces and then cut/extend, etc.

Thing is it feels like 350 hours is way too much - you could bedroll the whole thing out of flat sheet in that time I figure.

But I'm not a body guy, so don't know. What I kinda need is someone knowledgeable enough to look at my bills and tell me "Yeah, they're being fair to you" or "No, they're screwing you" because when I see 14.5 hours next to a description, I have no idea if it sounds right for 14.5 hours or not!

That's my only problem, not knowing how long it SHOULD take.

[Ol Blue K20]

I'm not a metal man, so I'm no help. But I can say "OUCH"!!! I hope someone can help ya out.

[Sheepdip]

Watch some of this guy's video's then make a decision for yourself.
http://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/

I personally know a guy that built a 1950 Ford Woody Wagon with his wallet, it needed extensive metal work to the tune of $150K...total insanity in my book, and the final price was close to $250K!!!

But in his defense he win's the "TROPHY" at every show!

[The Rocknrod]

They're hourly rate is $114 an hour?

[special-K]

Try asking in the paint & body forum. I think some pros tend to hang out there

[mongocanfly]

MP&C and astronaut are masters of bodywork...they can give you more of a feel for cost...but it's also hard to put a price on another man's work...

[Willie Makeit]

one should determine what a job will cost before one allows the job to start.

some educations are expensive.

[special-K]

With paying for body restoration it's [ay as you play. They might be able to give a range for what they can initially see needs dome, but until that can of worms gets opened...

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

one should determine what a job will cost before one allows the job to start.

some educations are expensive.

One can presume I'm well educated already, and that every investigation possible was intelligently made prior, but thanks for taking an honest question and trying to piss all over.

This ain't my first rodeo, Willie, so stop acting like it's yours.

[jeffahart]

Honestly Dave, at the juncture you're at. Here's what I would do. Show up, no matter if you have to get on a plane. Show up in the morning, bring donuts and coffee or whatever. Just be nice and friendly, and say you were in town. Take a look at your car. See if it's being used as a work bench. Do they have stuff stacked on it or laying on it. Does it reside in it's own space where it looks like it's getting attention, or shoved to the side where they're dabbling in the project and billing as they please. An unannounced pop in is important. When you leave say nothing but nice things. Then make a decision based on what you observed.

If they're bilking you, then you need to show up a second time unannounced with a flatbed. Nobody can tell you if they're bilking, you just have to show up, assess, and go with your gut.

Hope all turns out well, like your pickup


j

[morepwr]

First, I believe that jeffahart has given you very good advice.

Second, I have worked in fabrication and it does seem a bit high if they are not making parts from scratch versus modifying repro parts to fit a Canadian built car. Or perhaps their labor rate is significantly higher than the average shop. If you do go by the place for a visit, get a few pics so we can more honestly evaluate the work involved with the project.

[Willie Makeit]

Originally Posted by davepl

One can presume I'm well educated already, and that every investigation possible was intelligently made prior, but thanks for taking an honest question and trying to piss all over.

This ain't my first rodeo, Willie, so stop acting like it's yours.

since you wanna go childish, here's my retort:

regardless of your intellect, it appears some less-educated-than-you body shop owner has you over a barrel. pay up.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

MP&C and astronaut are masters of bodywork...they can give you more of a feel for cost...but it's also hard to put a price on another man's work...

I know John (astronaut) personally, he lives somewhat near me and comes to our truck club meets. Johns a very cool and talented guy. I've talked to him a bunch and what he does is NOT cheap. The 20's Buick he did got very expensive for the owner very fast. Every panel he cleaned paint off of was horribly corroded, bent, badly repaired, etc. He basically made the bottom 1/3 of the car by hand with tools and bucks he made. The owner ran out of money, so he took the car back until he saves up more to continue, but I believe he was able to get most of the metal work done and the owner was very happy with what was done, just ran out of $.

40K does sound like a ton of money, have they even started on the quarters, doors, fenders? For a badly corroded rare car with little aftermarket support or panels available, I can easily see a shop hitting 150K to complete a restoration like that from start to finish, but at the rate your shop is going, they're on track for well past that?

I've been to Chip Fooses shop 3X and talked to all the different guys that give the tours. Their average "foosified" car is in the $250K PLUS range and they *usually* start out with somewhat clean cars.

[CG]

Not singling out a particular post here so as not to offend, in no particular order ... LOL, snort, eye roll, doh!

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

one should determine what a job will cost before one allows the job to start.

some educations are expensive.

Originally Posted by Willie Makeit

since you wanna go childish, here's my retort:

regardless of your intellect, it appears some less-educated-than-you body shop owner has you over a barrel. pay up.

Wow!! Not the normal tone for responses here.....I feel like I'm on Facebook book or something!

[shifty]

Originally Posted by Ol Blue K20

Wow!! Not the normal tone for responses here.....I feel like I'm on Facebook book or something!

I dunno, I think Facebook may be a hair more timid

[jeffahart]

I hope Dave posts back on how he resolves his issue. An occasional hand dipping into the cookie jar can sometimes be ignored or overlooked for expediency and getting the project completed and out the door, especially if the project is on the one yard line. He needs to weigh the cost and headache of relocating the vehicle and starting over with a new shop, or dealing with trust issue. Sometime I eat money as a matter of principal; I refuse to be mistreated.


j

[Willie Makeit]

My first post was not to insult or belittle, was only pointing out that jobs like this should be quoted before beginning and then the customer has something to hold the vendor's "feet to the fire" when things go south, as described. I've spent a bit of time around the car scene and have seen this sort of situation again and again and again, folks drop a vehicle off and tell the shop what they want done and never ask for a quote or provide a Statement of Work beforehand. The OP's original post read like this was the case.

My second post was in reply to the childish "jump the gun" reply from the OP.

[May70]

Wow man 40k is a testament to something.. Jeffahart has an incredibly valuable piece of advice. Sooooo glad I read that.

I would take his advice but before I showed up, Id call the day before and get them to tell me what progress they have made say, 'in the last week'. Phrase the question so its clear you want to know whats the last thing they did to it and when, but not come right out and say it.

If you show up and there has clearly not been work done to your car, the car would be leaving REAL quick and they wouldn't get anything else I 'owed' them. Id bring a camera under the gise of 'taking pics for the build photo album'. I wouldn't let them know (if you decide to take your car back), so when they are having to clean off your car they are doing it in front of you with the flat bed and you are taking pics the whole time.

Im thinking ahead about my cab needing some work that might be over my head. Or the paint. and it has me worried about the same old situation. It is SO easy to get screwed.

I wish someone could give you a better idea but everything I have heard of is just pay as you go. I think thats why it is best to find someone who is very good and familiar with the car specifically. That way its faster and hopefully better.

This forum never fails in teaching me something new or a better way of doing things, every time I get on to read. Good luck. To keep it positive, you cant take the money with ya when you leave here so might as well have fun with it. Your post teaches people on what to think about so its doing good in more ways than one. Hope thats a sick ride