Federal Pacific main panel and circuit breakers

[LS short box]

This kind of a FYI post.
Couple weeks ago we had a whole house generator installed and and new main electrical panel in our house.
The reason for the new main electrical panel was the original owner who built the house in 77-78 used Federal Pacific main panel and breakers.
We had three bids on the generator and all three electricians told us even if we don't do the generator the Federal Pacific stuff had to go. Serious issues with the breakers not tripping and catching the wires on fire. Google it its pretty scary.
So today we had a state inspector in to inspect the electrical work. He also confirmed the Federal Pacific stuff is a fire waiting to happen.
Again just FYI.

[MJN]

My first house had a FP panel and breakers. I got the same feedback when I bought the house and it got replaced in short order. Surprisingly the local hardware store still had breakers on the shelf for those panels.

[bnorth]

We looked at a place to buy last summer built in the late 60's that had the FP setup and it was strongly recommended that it was replaced. Apparently failure rate on the breakers is in the 30% range where they don't trip.

[GOPAPA]

I am surprised that they did not have a ground wire to the ground, even the old screw in fuse boxes I replaced had that.

[Dead Parrot]

Pretty much the same info was discussed on a welding forum I often read. My childhood home built in the late 60's had FP breakers. But we dodged the aluminum wire fiasco. All the wires were copper. No longer my problem, that house was sold in the late 80's.

But a good idea to replace if you have FP breakers.

[richard2717]

I have been slowly changing out several aluminum wire circuits in my house. It was a mixture of aluminum and copper wire from the start and everything was backstabbed in the devices. I changed out all the devices when I first moved in to get rid of the backstab originals. Still have 2 rooms left with aluminum wire. Very seldom do they get used so no load on any of it. The FP panel was changed on day one with a Square D QO panel. The FP panel was actually in really good shape visually but I had already had a few stories of fires with them. The house was built in 74 I think.

[LS short box]

No alum wires in our house so just the main panel change out.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by richard2717

I have been slowly changing out several aluminum wire circuits in my house. It was a mixture of aluminum and copper wire from the start and everything was backstabbed in the devices. I changed out all the devices when I first moved in to get rid of the backstab originals. Still have 2 rooms left with aluminum wire. Very seldom do they get used so no load on any of it. The FP panel was changed on day one with a Square D QO panel. The FP panel was actually in really good shape visually but I had already had a few stories of fires with them. The house was built in 74 I think.

Not sure what "back-stabbed" means. When we bought this house (built in '68, so I knew it had aluminum wiring) I was told that there were "pigtails" installed. I pulled a switch plate to cover to check, and nope. The people who owned the place previous to us had been assured that the pigtails had been installed. They had been sold a bill of goods. They had to have pigtails installed before we bought it. In the process (which I observed), there was one outlet and one switch which had scorched wiring. Death waiting to happen.

[richard2717]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Not sure what "back-stabbed" means.

Pushing the wires into the back of the device instead of wrapping the wire around the screws on the side is called backstabbing around here. Was supposed to speed things up and the only thing I have ever seen it speed up is fire. I had to redo all of my parents devices as well after 2 small fires. Luckily no real damage happened in either instance. Backstabbing should have been outlawed a long time ago but they still make the devices with them.

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by richard2717

Pushing the wires into the back of the device instead of wrapping the wire around the screws on the side is called backstabbing around here. Was supposed to speed things up and the only thing I have ever seen it speed up is fire. I had to redo all of my parents devices as well after 2 small fires. Luckily no real damage happened in either instance. Backstabbing should have been outlawed a long time ago but they still make the devices with them.

Thx Richard for the expanation of back stabbing

I never knew the expression ,,but I never used the back side of any plugin or switch anyways to fasten my hot wire or primary wire ,, to loose a connection to suit me to put the face plate on call it good . I like a sure fit and the screw on the side is it.. dont mean to sound like a preacher,, just happy I never had a fire from the way I was taught to do it ,

[bnorth]

Backstabbing is particularly bad with aluminum wiring due to the expansion/contraction of aluminum with heat and it's tendency to work its way out of the backstabbed connection. Hence why the fix is to pigtail the aluminum to copper for the connection to the outlet/switch. The wirenut connection on the aluminum to copper is much more secure with that heat cycling.

[old Rusty C10]

i am 60 and when i was a kid they lost their underwriters labratories certification because the breakers have aluminum and copper in them and weld. i personally had a house that was fully attached to mine back when i lived in NY and the house next door the Columbia University grad moron left for work with a hair dryer running and after the fire, I had $140,000 worth of damage but i could stand on what was left of my roof and see to her basement.. she had those FP breakers/ box

[dave6672]

I take care of the maintenance at my church and when we were shopping for new insurance, one of the carriers told us that if we had any Federal Pacific Stab-Loc panels that they would not quote our insurance. I thought, "Oh, we don't have any of those". I went into the cellar to check the panels and sure enough, we have two of them. Something else to fix.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by richard2717

Pushing the wires into the back of the device instead of wrapping the wire around the screws on the side is called backstabbing around here. Was supposed to speed things up and the only thing I have ever seen it speed up is fire. I had to redo all of my parents devices as well after 2 small fires. Luckily no real damage happened in either instance. Backstabbing should have been outlawed a long time ago but they still make the devices with them.

Thanks for the explanation. I've always used the screws to attach wires to outlets and light switches. Just looking at those type of outlets, I dindn't like the looks of the spring connectors. Our current house was built with aluminum wiring, btu we had the pigtails retrofitted. I'll have to check the breaker panel when I get back home.

[joedoh]

my current house had a fed pac box, failed inspection (but not the purchase), local company replaced the box and brought everything up to code, that was 2010 and it was about 14k to move the panel to the garage and upgrade a couple lines.

bought another place with a shop, city made me fix up the house to use the shop, another fed pac box and this time i took the local test (i am a double E with common sense and a code book) and did it all my self, main replacement, sub replacement, all new 4 wire 220 lines, GFCI bathrooms and kitchen, including the 100A copper feed to the shop. cost about 4k. I also at the time added an addition on our house and wired it too, 100A sub panel.

what astounded me about the house i live in that it was still a 40A drop from the 50s. 2400sq ft with elec stove and dryer. two aircon! I have no idea how it wasnt a flaming pile of wreckage.