Is the restorer legally responsible ??

[jim-bob]

Will you be held legally responsible for a vehicle that you restored for someone that has a wreck horrific enough that it will involve law suits and it is determined that the wreck was
the direct cause of something that you did or failed to do in the restoration? OR...that person sells the vehicle that you restored..who's responsible then..both persons?
Thanks...

[Steeveedee]

Call your attorney.

[knomadd]

In today's day and age, I'd say it's very likely the builder/restorer will be blamed. If you (maybe not "you" specifically) bought a frame or some other structural part for a vehicle from a reputable business and had it fail, I'm sure you'd go after them. Same kind of concept.

But Steve is on to something. Call an attorney.

[harpo231]

My lawyer son says yes but is very complicated.

[KP Jon]

I'm not a lawyer but I play one on TV........

I think liability comes when you're charging someone for a service and representing yourself as a professional. If you restored a vehicle for yourself, sold it as is, (Especially a classic car/truck), your liability is probably minimal.

Here's a recent case that didn't go well for the shop even after they contested that their repair is a common practice used by many OEMs in new car production: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...llas-collision

[Stocker]

With extremely limited knowledge of the case, and lacking legal expertise, it does seem as though the restorer would likely be held liable.

That said, the very best advise you can get is what you already got. Talk to your attorney.

[weq92f]

Definitely consult a law professional.

However... a personal friend of mine went to court and won against the seller of a Harley who didn't disclose a modification ( lowering ) that limited the bikes turning radius due to interference with the ground. My buddy crashed the bike and nearly died.

Not exactly the same thing, but is a good example of complex liability case.

-klb

[jim-bob]

...Well of course if I'm ever involved in anything like this that would be my first call
..But I was speaking about some of you guys that only restore classics for yourself and then sell it, build for family and friends etc and they have a terrible accident, do you ever discuss this happening and do have any kind of waiver or what ever it's called to protect you!
I've had a few built and nothing was ever mentioned concerning this.. I'm having two being restored now, ones a shop for total restorations only and the other is a BackYard Garage.
nothing mention on it.
I'm going to ask them what their take is on this..thought I get some of your happenings on it..like I said at the beginning..just wondering

Thanks Fellows

[Grumpy old man]

A restoration shop would have insurance , And would have to be grossly negligent to to be held liable for anything over their insurance . if the "truck" was sold by the original customer it's his baby especially if he knew about a serious defect . Lawyers always go after the deepest pockets . Without knowing the specifics it's all up for debate , INC ? LLC ? Sole proprietor ? Sold as is, where is ? What it all really boils down to is there enough money or assets for any attorney to try to sue for ? Anyone who sells an antique car or truck without having the buyer sign an as is, where is contract is crazy .

edit : if you go asking the shop questions about liability you'll be signing a release before it leaves their building , the back yard guy will probably tell you to pick it up with a trailer and stop right where he is if he's smart .

[leddzepp]

“As-is, where is”, private party sales = no liability on the seller.

[harpo231]

If you sell your car privately it is vitally important that you make sure the change in ownership is properly documented with the state. Otherwise, it could haunt you. ... That Owner Liability thing is vital.

[harpo231]

Lawyers always go after the deepest pockets . There is a shifting fee deal with lawyers they go for

[Rich69shortfleet]

If you are seriously having thoughts about things like this you probably need to take up a different hobby and/or choose a different shop to do your work (one you DO trust) and/or do it yourself. Also, if you don't have the ability to judge if the work done for you was done well and properly you should involve an uninterested 3rd party to determine the quality of the work performed. Also, any shop worth their salt would do a number of shake down runs on things before turning it over to the customer.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

edit : if you go asking the shop questions about liability you'll be signing a release before it leaves their building , the back yard guy will probably tell you to pick it up with a trailer and stop right where he is if he's smart .

Exactly!! And there's a good chance the cost of the job just went up....

[jocko]

If you sold it as a business - perhaps. If you sold it as a private party, then I doubt there is any legal case. However, when you say you restored it "for someone" - it does sound as though you were, at a minimum, verbally contracted to do something for a specific person with a specific vehicle - does not sound as though you bought a truck, restored it, put it up for sale, and the buyer came along, and moved on. Sounds as though the hair is up on the back of the neck, so I'd consult an attorney personally, if I were the restorer. Not sure whether you're the restorer or on the receiving end or just asking a purely hypothetical question - but bottom line, I'd echo what Scott pointed out - private party, there's probably no lawsuit (that would be successful) - but I'd be concerned if I did a resto for some person specifically, the thing I worked on caused an accident, and there is documentation supporting "the work requested/performed" to match the cause - not just the sale of the vehicle in the end. Lousy situation, sorry to hear for either party involved.

[Aberdare]

IF... a vehicle that you restore, and later sell - if it doesn't pass a safety inspection, it won't be on the road as no one will insure it. If it passes a safety and is involved in an accident... Consult an attorney if you can be held liable for someone else's stupidity while operating a motor vehicle. Nuf Said...

Abe

[harpo231]

hear hear

[jeffahart]

It's an easy answer. Lawyers follow the money. If you have 1 percent culpability and lot's of money you pay all. Lawyers could give a crap about justice, they want a payout. If you don't have a pot to piss in... then you never have anything to worry about. Once you have money, people start coming after you... with their lawyers! Sucks!

Don't build crap and you probably won't have to worry!

[Aberdare]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Don't build crap and you probably won't have to worry!

Nods bunches & bunches... 50 Lawyers tied to an anchor chain, is a dammed fine start!

[harpo231]

My 25 yo just passed DE bar . hes still young , theres hope .

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by harpo231

My 25 yo just passed DE bar . hes still young , theres hope .

Congratulations to you. To pass the bar he must be bright, disciplined and a hard worker. Now he just has to grow a thick skin to put up with cynical old jokers like me... I've got a bag full of Lawyer jokes!

[harpo231]

[jim-bob]

Originally Posted by Aberdare

IF... a vehicle that you restore, and later sell - if it doesn't pass a safety inspection, it won't be on the road as no one will insure it. If it passes a safety and is involved in an accident... Consult an attorney if you can be held liable for someone else's stupidity while operating a motor vehicle. Nuf Said...

Abe

Abe..where in the world are you from my friend?....oh...I see...o k...

[68c10airstream]

A co-worker went to court 6 months after selling a car privately and saying he repaired the trans throttle linkage for shifting issues. he said the trans shouldn't give any troubles. Well the trans failed and he paid most of the repair. He got with a lawyer and now if he sells privately the new owner signs a paper stating sold as is with no warranty expressed or implied.

My kids sell their cars privately and i have convinced them to do the same. Keep the record for a year or two.

Don't get me going on car insurance and kids growing up. Ask and i will inform you parents how to keep the lawyers out of the parents pockets and not get sued to death for something their kids did.

[jim-bob]

guys..this was just a hypo question...no one that I know is involved in anything i've mentioned..I'm not a restorer,,but have had some restored and later sold AS IS and if something that the restorer failed to do and "not a part that was used" and can be proven that caused the horrific accident I assumed the "restorer" will be held responsible..
I was just curious and thought that some of you on the forum have restored vehicles for family and/or friends and maybe you have thought on this...How are you protected from being sued for maybe alot more than your insurance will cover..
Are you saying you would never restore for anyone period? That's my feelings..
And as someone said if it's restoration shop they have Insurance..
It just seemed odd to me that no one ever mentions this scenereo..