C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis

[knomadd]

Can you cut some material off the trans bellhousing? Sometimes the casting is a lot wider than necessary and you can just shave off a couple inches. Also, a couple 45s in the exhaust pipe should do the trick to clear through the openings, but I'm not quite sure my eyes are seeing the scale correctly to make sure they'd fit.

It's looking pretty good though! Good luck.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by knomadd

Can you cut some material off the trans bellhousing? Sometimes the casting is a lot wider than necessary and you can just shave off a couple inches. Also, a couple 45s in the exhaust pipe should do the trick to clear through the openings, but I'm not quite sure my eyes are seeing the scale correctly to make sure they'd fit.

It's looking pretty good though! Good luck.

Hey, thanks man! The 45s is just the simple thought I was missing. Sometimes you just hit "builders block" (kinda like writers block) and some advice from others gets ya back on track. I'm going to see if the local auto parts stores have some 3" 45s in mild steel to do some trials. On the trans, the passenger side looks to have room to trim, and I thought about that over there. However, the driver side hits right where the screw for the converter cover is, so can't trim the trans that side unfortunately. So drivers side would need a little flattening work on the primary. [edit: haha, after posting, I wonder if I could trim the drivers side tab off and make a new mounting hole for the converter cover]

[1971_c10]

The trip the local autoparts store is always an interesting one. There's always that one guy behind the counter who thinks he knows more about your custom hot rod than you, and he hasn't even seen it. Haha. So no 3" 45s at the local stores, but one did have a 3" extension pipe for $7 so I picked that up.

Then me and the hacksaw (yes, my shop currently lacks a bandsaw, porta-band or a cutoff saw at the moment) went to town on chopping up that 3" pipe. I was able to get a make-shift 'S' pipe tacked together to see what that would look like. It's not too bad. One thing is for sure, the collector would need to be cut back quite a bit for this to work.

On to more tid bits ... checked the O2 sensors, they won't fit, so bungs need to be moved (or added). There is only ~3" between the O2 bung and the first "bend" to fit a clamp.

So wow, the re-work list got long:
-Modify #3 primary to get proper steering shaft clearance (I don't want to have the look of a hammered pipe right there up front)
-Relocate O2 bungs
-Shorten Collector
-Cut driver side mounting tab for converter cover and relocate mounting hole
-Trim passenger side casting around starter bump in bellhousing casting

Lots to think about. I'm bordering on sending these headers back and just taking it to a shop and letting them do the whole exhaust.

Here's some shots of what the exhaust would need to do. Excuse the poor fitting parts. The hacksaw blade would twist during the cut despite cranking up the tension. So I just sanded enough to get the parts to where I could tack them together.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

Hey, thanks man! The 45s is just the simple thought I was missing. Sometimes you just hit "builders block" (kinda like writers block) and some advice from others gets ya back on track. I'm going to see if the local auto parts stores have some 3" 45s in mild steel to do some trials. On the trans, the passenger side looks to have room to trim, and I thought about that over there. However, the driver side hits right where the screw for the converter cover is, so can't trim the trans that side unfortunately. So drivers side would need a little flattening work on the primary. [edit: haha, after posting, I wonder if I could trim the drivers side tab off and make a new mounting hole for the converter cover]

Doesn't that cover utilize 4 holes like the earlier 700r4's? If so, you should be fine eliminating the upper mount on the driver side & slim down the casting on the pass side.

Also.... What about slightly enlarging the exhaust pass-through on the x-rail to allow a better transition on the collector bend?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Doesn't that cover utilize 4 holes like the earlier 700r4's? If so, you should be fine eliminating the upper mount on the driver side & slim down the casting on the pass side.

Also.... What about slightly enlarging the exhaust pass-through on the x-rail to allow a better transition on the collector bend?

Hey SCOTI, Thanks for the thoughts!

Yeah, it's a 4 bolt inspection cover. It probably would be fine with 3 bolts, but I worry it would create a rattle that would drive me bonkers! But moving the mount hole shouldn't be too hard. I'd just drill a new hole close to the bellhousing with the cover bolted in then proceed with chopping off a 1/2-3/4" or so.

On the exhaust, the trick here is the collector also sits low relative to the cross member, so it would help with one angle, but the pipe would still need to kick up to get to the hole so it doesn't really help. I'm thinking a custom header builder could angle the collector like a corvette (only not as much) to get a better relationship to the cross member. No Limit recommends mid or short length headers to avoid this very scenario, but I'm stubborn and really want a long tube header. Otherwise I could do something like Ultimate Headers swept back mid-length and be done with it all.

[1971_c10]

Oh man it's been a busy few days...

So, after a couple phone calls, I have what could be an inside lead on headers. Can't say much more than that at the moment, but some promising news. With that, I sent the Hooker headers back. I figured if the inside lead doesn't pan out, I'll go custom. May still trim that driver side trans ear b/c is does stick way out there!

I also got the setup bars made. They aren't hard, but are a good thing to have and use. So good, that Rob now includes a set with every chassis they ship (so I hear). Regardless, a 6' 1x1 bar and some time and BAM! - setup bars.

The bars are based off coilover length from when I had the truck sitting at my desired stance. The longer bars are for the rear, and in reality the coilover will be 1" shorter when I go for final setup, but that difference is in the axle mount holes. I had the coilover "over extended" when setting ride height because there is not much weight and even with the light 200 lb/in springs they didn't compress much. So I shifted the coilover down one hole to get the ride height. To keep it simple I just made the setup bar for that length. The fronts (short ones) are spot on for length so that will come down to setting the preload to keep that coilover length.

For those not familiar with setup bars - setup bars put the suspension at ride height and keep it there. Lots of adjustments are made at ride height, with driveline angles being the most known. But pan hard bar, 4 bar setup and roll (sway) bar link length are a few other things done with the suspension at ride height. Fortunately, Rob at No Limit gets the setup pretty close when he ships. But still up to the builder to do the final setup. I will, however, rely on a shop with the right equipment to do the front axle toe, camber and caster final adjustments.

Oh --- also got the lines for the power steering made.

[1971_c10]

Attacked the heater side of the firewall today. Getting closer to being done with metal work.

Oh, and I've got a lead on headers. I sent those Hooker headers back. Stay tuned. Hope to know something more in week or so.

[rob32472]

I cant wait till mine is as far along. I picked up my No limit chassis a few weeks back. I have my engine in and just working on finishing brake lines, fuel lines and a few other items while cab is receiving metal work. I have been keeping an eye on your build to hopefully avoid any pit falls. You are doing great work!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by rob32472

I cant wait till mine is as far along. I picked up my No limit chassis a few weeks back. I have my engine in and just working on finishing brake lines, fuel lines and a few other items while cab is receiving metal work. I have been keeping an eye on your build to hopefully avoid any pit falls. You are doing great work!

Thanks man!

-------------

And sorry guys for the lack of posting. It's been busy at work (11-12 hr days) then I'm in the shop right up to bed time, so limited time for posting. But I did keep taking pics.

So here's a shot of the finished heater area (well, sans body work and paint). I still have a few holes left to fill, including the original fan hole. But I've already filled a ton of holes, including three of the 1" holes (had some fun making little circle patch panels) where the oil sense line, speedo and washer fluid lines went through. And the last hole I'll leave is the fuse panel. Still trying to decide if I relocate it or not.


And I decided to go Black Widow on the exhaust. 3" all the way back to let the beast LS breathe! And yes that is daylight you see through those Black Widows.

[1971_c10]

Continuing on the updates ...

So I started to finalize my drivetrain setup as mentioned when I got the setup bars installed. Found yet another rabbet hole. My motor/trans down angle was sitting about 4.1 degrees down. Yikes. That's a tad on the high side. So I set off evaluating options. I've got that stroked LS, so Rob had sent me some bits to make new perches (the part that the motor mount bolts to and then bolts to the truss on the chassis) that pushed the motor up 1/2" from the ones that shipped with the chassis. So since those were just bits, I took to modifying them.

The goal was to get the down angle to 3.5 degrees with no transmission tail shaft spacers. So the engine/trans came out. I hacked the plates up that make up the perch and started "moving" the hole for the motor mount tube down. This was an iterative process. Die grind a little, bolt the plates in, set the motor/trans in, check clearances, check angle, repeat. After several iterations, I wound up dropping the engine down a tad more than 1/4", basically putting my oil pan resting on the cross brace part of the cross member. So me and the angle grinder went to work and put a shallow U to provide just enough clearance on the oil pan. Success! I got the motor/trans down to 3.5 degrees. With a 1/4" trans tail shaft spacer I get can get down to around 3.0-3.1 degrees, but then I may be into the back of the cab with the driveshaft which would require me to notch the back of the cab (this is at full bump only).

Oh, and on the driveshaft, I'm using Mark Williams Enterprises here in Colorado. Those guys are awesome. If you ever need a custom driveshaft check them out (they have more than just driveshafts). I'm getting a 3.5" 6061 aluminum driveshaft with 1350 U-joints. That will handle the 600 HP with no problems. It does impose a ~150 mph speed limit on the truck with the 3.70:1 rear gears, but with no roll bar/cage, I'm perfectly ok with that as the top speed. For those curious on why the driveshaft is the limiting factor, it has everything to do with the critical speed of the driveshaft. The critical speed is the speed at which the driveshaft becomes unstable, and you don't want that. Trust me. It's a matter of seconds before carnage starts to happen.

So here's a few shots of the stuff. The first are the finished perches (sorry, in this case I forgot to take pictures of the mods). The original No Limit ones on the left, my hacked up modified ones on the right. I got really lucky and found an epoxy spray paint that very closely matches the powder coat. The left ones are powder coated, the right ones are spray paint.

I also tossed in a couple shots of the finalized engine mounting and a comparison of the 1350 U-joint/yoke to the factory one.

[1971_c10]

The new driveshaft was finished up yesterday, so I went and picked it up this afternoon. Boy does it look good and stout. Mark Williams Enterprises does a good job, this thing fit perfect! And they tested the driveshaft to 3000 ft-lb before handing it off to me. And just look at another view of the 1350 u-joints vs OEM. I also picked up a pair of their billet straps vs a typical u-bolt to hold the rear u-joint in the pinion yoke. Those billet straps help keep the bearing cup square under heavy/dynamic loads to help minimize wear on the bearings in the u-joint.

It's a good feeling to almost have the driveline wrapped up.

[Advanced Design]

The chassis is looking very nice. A real work of art.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

The chassis is looking very nice. A real work of art.

Thanks Doug! Although I can only take credit for keeping it nice after taking the whole rear-end apart and re-assembling. Most of the credit goes to Rob and the guys at No Limit for building an awesome chassis. Of course, I did pick all the colors ...

[GR8-68]

This is going to be one sweet ride, really nice work

[meenaggie]

I have a front and rear suspension from No-Limit as well . . . I found the VHT Roll Bar & Chassis Satin Black paint is a really good match for the black powder coat Rob uses. I had to touch up a few parts and also used the VHT to paint my frame rails. You can pick up the VHT paint at Autozone, Advance, Oreilly's, etc. Nice build by the way.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by GR8-68

This is going to be one sweet ride, really nice work

Thanks!

Originally Posted by meenaggie

I have a front and rear suspension from No-Limit as well . . . I found the VHT Roll Bar & Chassis Satin Black paint is a really good match for the black powder coat Rob uses. I had to touch up a few parts and also used the VHT to paint my frame rails. You can pick up the VHT paint at Autozone, Advance, Oreilly's, etc. Nice build by the way.

Thanks! and Haha! Our minds think alike. That is almost exact same stuff I used, except I used the epoxy version! On areas I've touched up on the chassis you can't really tell unless you know it's there.

[nastety92]

Nice build. Which black widow model muffler did you go with? I've been thinking about putting one on my truck once it's time.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by nastety92

Nice build. Which black widow model muffler did you go with? I've been thinking about putting one on my truck once it's time.

Thanks man! I went with the Pro-Venom 250 (polished). I was tossing around between that and the 300 series, but I figured I'd start with the shorter, louder, version and see how I like it will cruising. That way if I want to switch to the 300 series later it's just a little tailpipe trimming.

[nastety92]

I think I'm going to run the 250 Venom as well, just not the pro version.

Looking forward to see how you like it once your driving the truck.

Thanks,
Nick

[kehstr]

What are those magnet things that you have been using on the sheet metal work?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by kehstr

What are those magnet things that you have been using on the sheet metal work?

Are you talking the copper things like in post 77? Those are Clecos and a little strip I made with 1/8" holes spaced 0.75" apart. There are corresponding 1/8" holes in the sheet metal for the Cleco to go through. Clecos come from the aircraft industry and are made to hold panels together prior to riveting. So they come in various typical rivet sizes. I have 1/8" and 3/16" ones. The 3/16" have a stronger spring for more clamp but need a bigger hole to then fill later.

[kehstr]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

Are you talking the copper things like in post 77? Those are Clecos and a little strip I made with 1/8" holes spaced 0.75" apart. There are corresponding 1/8" holes in the sheet metal for the Cleco to go through. Clecos come from the aircraft industry and are made to hold panels together prior to riveting. So they come in various typical rivet sizes. I have 1/8" and 3/16" ones. The 3/16" have a stronger spring for more clamp but need a bigger hole to then fill later.

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about, do you have a picture of how you built them and how to set them up for use?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by kehstr

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about, do you have a picture of how you built them and how to set them up for use?

I don't have anything off hand, but there are some good youtube videos explaining Clecos. You can buy a kit that has some Clecos and the Cleco pliers to get started. Summit Racing sells them or you can find some on Amazon.

Here's a youtube link to TheFabForums.com giving an overview:

You Need This Tool - Episode 3 | Clecos &...

He's got a link to the ones he demos in the video description.

[1971_c10]

FINALLY!!! The header fiasco is over!

Even with a cracked rib, when these showed back up today after some rework, I went to work. Starting to look like an engine!

The details ... So way back in January I contacted a company who specializes in aftermarket headers on custom jobs. Their slogan is big tubes in tight places. Exactly what I needed. A 1 7/8" primary long tube header. The company: Ultimate Headers.

And these things fit very well - as they should. They worked with Rob from No Limit to tweak and dial in the fit. They are well built too, using 321 stainless, cast flanges and turn down tubes and merge collectors. They also have this improved ball and socket design.

So hats off to Ultimate Headers. There were some growing pains but in the end they made things right.

Passenger Side


Driver Side


Close up of steering shaft area. I've got the steering shaft mocked up with a jig I made the last time the cab was on.


Top view showing the collector placement


Merge collectors baby!

[hotrod1]

Hey Chris

Your build is coming along nicely. Like the new headers.

What horsepower are you running and what size fuel line? Are you running a fuel filter somewhere? Is it possible to see a picture of the fuel line termination in the rear and maybe your fuel filter setup?