The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1973 - 1987 Chevrolet & GMC Squarebody Pickups Message Board

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2019, 11:37 AM   #51
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunSoaked View Post
You have to melt the plastic bushing out first. There are several threads about how to do this. I used a propane torch. Once it begins to ooze out, just pull it apart. DONT breath the fumes. Once it cools (may need a little cleaning out) it will telescope to the needed length. Add a little grease to keep it from seizing. There are videos in YouTube.
Yes sir. I read up on the collapsing portion of the install & watched a couple YT videos.

Just checking to make sure my process was following the same path concerning whether the 'binding agent' used between the 2 halves of the shaft needed to be completely melted/removed or if you were just minimizing the heat just enough to collapse/expand for the install. The videos I watched showed both approaches.

I'll prob melt the binding agent out as much as possible & clean up each half to allow easier assembly/testing for the final install alignment. Once that's all verified, I'll prep it for final install to finish things up.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....

Last edited by SCOTI; 07-26-2019 at 11:42 AM.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2019, 12:02 PM   #52
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHILDE View Post
SCOTI, it looks like there is a 14:1 straight ratio box (instead of the 16/13:1 variable) coming out soon for our trucks from AGR (Ft. Worth). That with a Borgeson shaft should provide a decent feel and steering.
Interesting. I was never sure if the HD trucks used a different box vs. half ton trucks. Might be worth investigating those. The only ones I knew about (for HD trucks) was the Red Head steering boxes. That being said, I never really had any complaints on the feel of the OE box/gearing. It's not too easy nor too heavy. With the added caster I have dialed in, it feels pretty neutral when cruising down the road.

The rag joint failure @ <7k miles was my concern. I know my box leaks; and that fluid prob soaked the rubber material accelerating its demise but that was still way too easy & soon for it to come apart like it did.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2019, 07:18 PM   #53
JHILDE
Registered User
 
JHILDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quitman, Texas
Posts: 51
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTI View Post
Interesting. I was never sure if the HD trucks used a different box vs. half ton trucks. Might be worth investigating those. The only ones I knew about (for HD trucks) was the Red Head steering boxes. That being said, I never really had any complaints on the feel of the OE box/gearing. It's not too easy nor too heavy. With the added caster I have dialed in, it feels pretty neutral when cruising down the road.

The rag joint failure @ <7k miles was my concern. I know my box leaks; and that fluid prob soaked the rubber material accelerating its demise but that was still way too easy & soon for it to come apart like it did.
From talking to AGR the easy/heavy is more due to the port size, not the ratio. The 14:1 ratio just picks up some steering feel from anything other than straight/centered.

My box is leaking, well worn, and my rag is bad. When I drop it and get some sticky tires on the front I'm asking for problems If I don't make some changes.
JHILDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2019, 09:36 PM   #54
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Cooked the binding agent (plastic, glue, ??) out today w/no problem. Tomorrow I'll work on the install. I needed an assistant for the work as I'm replacing the driver side rubber brake line while I'm in the wheel-well.
Attached Images
  
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2019, 11:16 PM   #55
SunSoaked
Senior Member
 
SunSoaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,163
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Looks good. It's worth the effort.
SunSoaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 09:48 AM   #56
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

I wasn't able to get to it as my assistant had other plans. I picked up my brake line & 2 other small pieces of hardware I needed to swap out (all while I'm in the well to replace the steering shaft).

Plan is to get things together tonight & determine the finishing touches for the install. Until then, here's an image of the 'post melt-out' glue/binding agent from the manufacturing process:
Attached Images
  
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 10:37 AM   #57
SunSoaked
Senior Member
 
SunSoaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,163
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Wow, yours came apart much cleaner than mine. Mine was an oozing, popping, snarling mess.
SunSoaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 10:54 AM   #58
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunSoaked View Post
Wow, yours came apart much cleaner than mine. Mine was an oozing, popping, snarling mess.
Yes sir. I did the process outdoors expecting a nasty, fume-heavy experience. In actuality, there was little to no smoke & no smell that that could be detected (I was outdoors though). I chalk it up to advancements in binding-agent technology.

I clamped a pickle fork into a vice on the ground, clamped the column end of the new XJ shaft to the handle, & heated about a 4" length of the shaft where the 2 halves met. After a few mins, I was able to easily pull the box end of the shaft apart from the column end. I tried wiping off the residual 'glue' but it didn't like that & basically kind of smeared. So I grabbed a hard metal scraper & w/a couple of hard hits it sliced through & fell off.

The binding material definitely feels like some sort of plastic.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2019, 12:11 AM   #59
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Got the new XJ shaft installed today. Still need some follow-up stuff as my hardware selection failed so I used the supplied 'black oxide' stuff for now.

It was too dark for pics so I'll post some up tomorrow. Initial feel is good.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2019, 06:55 PM   #60
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

I picked up some new hardware today. My standard MO is to replace black oxide hardware w/stainless if/when possible. I purchased some SS M8 bolts for this project but they wanted to gall when passing over the shafts @ each end.

So I dropped down a size (now 1/4") to allow easily passing the threaded end of the hardware through. They are now being secured w/a locknut on the end of the bolts vs. relying on the metric threads @ the shaft ends. I put the 1/4" bolt in place & couldn't pull the ends off so that works for me & is easier for servicing.

I drilled through the larger/outer portion of the of the new shaft. I figured I would provide a way to 're-bind' the 2 halves should I decide it's necessary. I played around w/a couple ideas & hot-melt glue would most likely be the binding agent if I decide to do that. For now I just have some plastic plugs over the holes.
Attached Images
     
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2019, 11:46 PM   #61
SunSoaked
Senior Member
 
SunSoaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,163
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

If you have access to a welder...?
I plan on tack welding a nut over that hole and using a setscrew with thread locker. The only purpose of the plastic inside was to keep it tight and from rattling while still allowing it to collapse in a front end collision and making you a shiskebob.
SunSoaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 12:38 AM   #62
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunSoaked View Post
If you have access to a welder...?
I plan on tack welding a nut over that hole and using a setscrew with thread locker. The only purpose of the plastic inside was to keep it tight and from rattling while still allowing it to collapse in a front end collision and making you a shiskebob.
I considered welding a nut & doing the set-screw. But, after installation, it seems as tight/tighter the the original set-up so I skipped it. Same logic on the binding agent. Seems fine w/o it. I'll revisit it later if something comes up I don't like.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 10:32 AM   #63
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
I have a couple questions on your install.

- Once you have the shafts installed, did you not find it necessary to install a bolt through the two shafts to rebound them?

- Because you went from a M8 to 1/4Ē hardware did you not have to file down any of the shafts?
I was asked this question via PM so I thought I would share this info in case anyone alse wondered.... I drilled through the outer portion of the collapsible shaft (Yellow circle). When the inner portion (gear box end) slides inside, the holes are centered on the shaft where it's notched by the manufacturer & where the binding agent originally went (Yellow lines). If I choose to bind them w/a glue, this is where it would happen. I'll give it more miles before making that decision.

I also have considered incorporating a set-screw arrangement to keep the shaft halves more solid while still allowing the ability to collapse upon impact. If you did a set screw, you would want it closer to the end of the outer shaft (White circle & X). That way upon impact, the inner shaft can still slide inside the outer w/o that notched area coming into contact.

I'll likely do one method or the other for re-binding the 2 halves if I feel it necessary. The set-screw is the better/easier choice for future removal for whatever reason as it can simply be unscrewed & the 2 halves will easily slide apart vs. having to re-melt glue to get them apart.

I did use the smaller hardware to eliminate the need to file the gear-box & column end stubs down (to allow the hardware to easily slide across the stub). The smaller threaded end of the SAE SS hardware easily passed through the metric tapped portion of the clamps. The slightly fatter shank of the SAE hardware helped fill the notch area @ the gear box end despite being a smaller diameter bolt (I couldn't pull the gear-box side of the shaft off by hand w/the 1/4" hardware loosely in place). It's possible you could force it off if you tried hard enough I suppose. Hopefully this makes sense.
Attached Images
  
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 10:56 AM   #64
focusedontheprize
Senior Member
 
focusedontheprize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 749
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTI View Post
I was asked this question via PM so I thought I would share this info in case anyone alse wondered.... I drilled through the outer portion of the collapsible shaft (Yellow circle). When the inner portion (gear box end) slides inside, the holes are centered on the shaft where it's notched by the manufacturer & where the binding agent originally went (Yellow lines). If I choose to bind them w/a glue, this is where it would happen. I'll give it more miles before making that decision.

I also have considered incorporating a set-screw arrangement to keep the shaft halves more solid while still allowing the ability to collapse upon impact. If you did a set screw, you would want it closer to the end of the outer shaft (White circle & X). That way upon impact, the inner shaft can still slide inside the outer w/o that notched area coming into contact.

I'll likely do one method or the other for re-binding the 2 halves if I feel it necessary. The set-screw is the better/easier choice for future removal for whatever reason as it can simply be unscrewed & the 2 halves will easily slide apart vs. having to re-melt glue to get them apart.

I did use the smaller hardware to eliminate the need to file the gear-box & column end stubs down (to allow the hardware to easily slide across the stub). The smaller threaded end of the SAE SS hardware easily passed through the metric tapped portion of the clamps. The slightly fatter shank of the SAE hardware helped fill the notch area @ the gear box end despite being a smaller diameter bolt (I couldn't pull the gear-box side of the shaft off by hand w/the 1/4" hardware loosely in place). It's possible you could force it off if you tried hard enough I suppose. Hopefully this makes sense.
Thanks SCOTI (I was the one who asked the questions via PM). This does make a lot of sense and the pictures help tremendously. I am not really interesting going down the glue route if I don’t have to (due to the set screw allowing you to service the shaft), however I want to make sure the column will still collapse in the event of an accident.

I may run them loose for the time being (as you have them setup) and then will decide the next steps from there.

I may have missed it as I do see you calling out you drilled through the outer shaft, but wanted to confirm you did not drill through the inner shaft and that is just a black sharpie mark to use as a guide to line everything up when sliding the shafts together.
focusedontheprize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 11:17 AM   #65
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 18,073
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusedontheprize View Post
Thanks SCOTI (I was the one who asked the questions via PM). This does make a lot of sense and the pictures help tremendously. I am not really interesting going down the glue route if I donít have to (due to the set screw allowing you to service the shaft), however I want to make sure the column will still collapse in the event of an accident.

I may run them loose for the time being (as you have them setup) and then will decide the next steps from there.

I may have missed it as I do see you calling out you drilled through the outer shaft, but wanted to confirm you did not drill through the inner shaft and that is just a black sharpie mark to use as a guide to line everything up when sliding the shafts together.
Correct.... I drilled through the outer shaft only. The Sharpie reference mark was only for checking alignment.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 12:40 PM   #66
focusedontheprize
Senior Member
 
focusedontheprize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 749
Re: Steering coupler or Rag joint

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTI View Post
Correct.... I drilled through the outer shaft only. The Sharpie reference mark was only for checking alignment.
Just to close the loop on this. With the phenomenal tutorial from SCOTI, I also installed this upgrade in Dixie. Same procedure - melted out the glue agent in between with mapp gas. I end up tapping the outer shaft and put a set screw in to keep everything tight and serviceable. Once I finish trial running it and confirm everything is good - I am going to repaint the shaft. I drove it all last weekend and could tell it tightened everything up.
Attached Images
  
focusedontheprize is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com